[The Overrun]

how much torque can it take?

chiptuning is great but what if the gearbox breaks? (clutch)

does anyone know what the torque limit is?

greetings and many thanks

The Overrun

[The Overrun]

I saw a chipped Cooper S r56 with 310 Nm, without problems.

[Hyper Active]

The standard R56 MCS is already running near to what the clutch and gearbox can take. The JCW Stage 1 tuning kit then takes it to the maximum. With the new factory built JCW, BMW felt the need to upgrade both the clutch and gearbox. This dispite the peak torque only going up by 20nm over the standard MCS, and just 10nm from the Stage 1 kit.

[Minipnut]

theres no way they need to put a new gearbox in ??? the r53 getrag box took over 500bhp in fireballed tims car ????? so why would the r56 need replacing ?

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by Minipnut (original)

theres no way they need to put a new gearbox in ??? the r53 getrag box took over 500bhp in fireballed tims car ????? so why would the r56 need replacing ?

The gearbox in the R56 MCS is not the same as the gearbox in the R53 MCS. Hence why BMW needed an upgrade for the new factory built R56 JCW, due to it's power increase.

It would seem that the R56 was designed in such a way, as to stop aftermarket tuners from tuning it up.

[Goonery]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

The gearbox in the R56 MCS is not the same as the gearbox in the R53 MCS. Hence why BMW needed an upgrade for the new factory built R56 JCW, due to it's power increase.

It would seem that the R56 was designed in such a way, as to stop aftermarket tuners from tuning it up.

With respect I'd dispute that and say that it will challenge tuners more to find a way of getting more with what is there in the new version, the old model was built and designed with plenty of headroom which was perfect for and relatively easy for tuners, the R56 is strong but nobody has had time to figure it out properly yet.

[kirk]

hyper active......... with respect id like to know how you know the gearbox is near the limits!?

alta mini perfromance is running 260whp through the standard box with no problems!!

i cant say for sure maybe this box is going to be like the old midland box in the pre-face lift mini one/cooper but i doubt it!

if thats the case then i gues my cars going back to the dealer and il go back to an r53. but many american tuners are putting high HP figures through the standard box so until we here of a blown box i don't think we have anything to worry about.

regards, kirk

[ViscountCharles]

If the standard box really can take high levels of after-market tuning, why are MINI so keen to put an unprated g/box and clutch in the John Cooper Works? Developing gearboxes can't be cheap, so I doubt that they'd do it if it were unneccesary.

A gearbox upgrade in the Works can't simply be dismissed as a way to up the price of the car - if "value added features" were being included simply to push the price/desireability up, I would have expected MINI to add a (comparatively) cheap - for them - bodykit and not waste time and development money on an uprated gearbox.

[kirk]

maybe so........ wouldn't be the first time.

mini don't design gearboxes they have gearbox manufacturers do it for them! they most likely spec the drive ratios etc

this redesigned gearbox could have different gear ratios or a different final drive. they did it with the facelift R53 cooper s.

regards kirk

[carboncrazy]

Im sure the new R56 GETRAG box can hadle alot more than just 200bhp. They clearly changed it as they probably wanted a shorter gear throw or something theres no way an uprated gearbox is worse than the original. I know the R53 gear box is virtually indestructable but the new one is a propper rebuild of the old one that apparently produces smoother shift and better connections.

Joe

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by kirk (original)

hyper active......... with respect id like to know how you know the gearbox is near the limits!?

alta mini perfromance is running 260whp through the standard box with no problems!!

i cant say for sure maybe this box is going to be like the old midland box in the pre-face lift mini one/cooper but i doubt it!

if thats the case then i gues my cars going back to the dealer and il go back to an r53. but many american tuners are putting high HP figures through the standard box so until we here of a blown box i don't think we have anything to worry about.

regards, kirk

Hi kirk . Below is a couple of extracts from the Factory Works press release as posted here on mini2, in regard to the items that BMW have upgraded from the standard MCS . Not mentioned but also upgraded is the clutch.

Quote:

The six-speed manual gearbox has been strengthened to handle the powerful new engine.

Quote:

The Works engines from Hams Hall also come with reinforced, specially polished pistons, as well as a strengthened cylinder head for optimised stability and a modified cylinder gasket. The intake valves and valve seat rings have also been upgraded with stronger and more resistant materials. This reduces the engine’s compression ratio.

I don't dispute what your saying about Alta running 260 whp as i heard that as well. But being able to produce that kind of HP is one thing. It all still working a thousand miles later is quite another.

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original)

With respect I'd dispute that and say that it will challenge tuners more to find a way of getting more with what is there in the new version, the old model was built and designed with plenty of headroom which was perfect for and relatively easy for tuners, the R56 is strong but nobody has had time to figure it out properly yet.

Do you know something that most don't then Stu .

[kirk]

hi..........
well i guess only time will tell. but there was the same sort of talk about the r53 when people first started modifying it.

i agree with what you are saying but what bmw (mini) say and what they do is a completely different thing!

at the end of the day, in the near future im sure quaife will bring a gearset out for it. or if needs be you could most likely swap out your box for this new one, doubt it wuold be much of a problem.

you could probally contact the gearbox manufacturer and ask what power they say is the limits of the box, i think (dont qoute me on this) they said they didnt trust the getrag (R53) box over 230ish bhp, but look at the power people have been putting through that.

i think we should give it 6months or so and see if we have any failures.

regards, kirk

[1320autos]

Have any of you looked at the input shaft of an R56?

[Lucky Dave]

Im guessing its like a pug, small ?

[kirk]

1320 were you asking or do you know?? as i would like to know myself

what are your views?

also cant wait for the quaife ATB

regards, kirk

[The Overrun]

I'm sure it can handle the power, I've seen many tuned cooper s's that produce over 300 nm of torque without problems

[MINI-Morgan]

Will it handle the extra power? Yes probably wont even stress it much more but..... yes there is always a but with these things! Manufactures build in big tolerances into the gearbox because roads arent smooth and some people are heavy handed with gear changes. How many people rev the nuts off the engine and then slam it into the next gear and feel that big surve forward? Thats the big torque increase of slowing the weight of the engine down when its still going full bore! And when you go over bumps as you are accelerating flat out it goes loose and then suddenly tugs big time. So yes a standard box has alot of headroom but it depends how you plan to drive it. Smooth acceleration it will easily cope 300+ hp im sure.

The only reason I can see them upgrading the gearbox is to account for the extra stresses of being driven badly with the extra torque it now has.

[Minipnut]

Maybe the box itself is the same as the old one, but the "Gears" themself mayb not be as strong ? My mate is a complete tool, in his Midlands Cooper he dropped the car in 5th from 7k Odd RPM and completely stripped 5th and damaged 4th in the process.