[Ken Cooper]

Periodically someone will put a link to this topic on the NAM Mini Cooper forum (creates a certain degree of alarm).

After Analyzing this scary looking group of problems my concerns lessened. I wrote it up on the NAM site. Here is a copy:

Having felt a great deal of concern After reading the European Mini forum’s 2nd gen faults and fixes segment, I decided to read in detail all 45 postings along with their many sub postings to ferret out the real story. I logged the results on a spreadsheet and here’s what I learned.

. There were several (8 – some multiple) early growing pains quality problems that are no longer showing up. These had people pretty concerned for a while (November and part of December). For instance, leaking fuel pump problems were of great concern (safety issue). There were also rattles, squeaks, pieces falling off, and whatever.

. There were six non-issues (also, I deleted another 4 that shouldn’t even have been posted in this topic string).

. There were six one-of-a-kind irritants that were repaired or are being repaired by Mini.

. There were six little issues that were quickly fixed.

. There were 5 minor irritant issues.

. There were five issues that turned out to be operator misunderstandings.

. There were three issues that fell in the category of, “Nature of the Beast”.

. And, finally, there were three issues that warrant watching:

…. Gearbox problems (5 of them). These non-catastrophic issues are currently being addressed by Mini. It’s worth going to that site and reading what popey, craig, tracywebb, aisling and ichy600 have to say. It’s worth it to know what to look, listen, and feel for as we test-drive our new cars.

…. Upgrade speaker problems (several). Fixed by Mini but check out those speakers when you take ownership of your car.

…. One case of Obviously lousy workmanship along with poor QC. Only once, but this kind of thing stands out glaringly. If I had been the owner I’d have not accepted the car.

Anyhow, what looked scary and horrible to me at first viewing (2nd. Gen. faults and fixes) turned out to be nothing really to lose any sleep over. There are a lot of postings there that have nothing but glowing things to say about their new MCs and MCSs. I'm not a bit concerned about this very few folks who have experienced legimate issues.

[Paul]

Quite an interesting post, and hats off to you for the work you must have put in! That said, I'm unclear on a few things, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on these too.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ken Cooper (original)

There were several (8 – some multiple) early growing pains quality problems that are no longer showing up. These had people pretty concerned for a while (November and part of December). For instance, leaking fuel pump problems were of great concern (safety issue). There were also rattles, squeaks, pieces falling off, and whatever.

Fuel pumps, in terms of a fix on the line and available to dealers, is resolved. I think that's more one for current owners to be watching out for than potential customers.

There's no real evidence that rattles squeks have been fixed, they just seem pot luck, some early cars had none, some do have some.

Pieces falling off, if you're referring to the wheel arch trim, there's been no "fix" for this, I'd say mine hasn't fallen off mostly because I've not been driving my car as it's been at the dealers due to that and other issues. This is probably my main ongoing concern, as trim falling off regularly wont be much fun!

Quote: Originally Posted by Ken Cooper (original)

There were six non-issues (also, I deleted another 4 that shouldn’t even have been posted in this topic string).

There were six little issues that were quickly fixed.

There were 5 minor irritant issues.

I think that could do with fleshing out really, for people reading your post unaware of what you consider minor irritant issues. I'd put rattles in that category, but I think you've covered that one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ken Cooper (original)

And, finally, there were three issues that warrant watching:

…. Gearbox problems (5 of them). These non-catastrophic issues are currently being addressed by Mini. It’s worth going to that site and reading what popey, craig, tracywebb, aisling and ichy600 have to say. It’s worth it to know what to look, listen, and feel for as we test-drive our new cars.

…. Upgrade speaker problems (several). Fixed by Mini but check out those speakers when you take ownership of your car.

…. One case of Obviously lousy workmanship along with poor QC. Only once, but this kind of thing stands out glaringly. If I had been the owner I’d have not accepted the car.

Cant argue with that, which owner has the one case of lousy QC? Seems to have been a few from just dipping in and outof the forum, but if you've gone through with a fine tooth combe I'd be interested which one you consider the worst!

We were considering doing something similar to what you've done with this post (so it acts as a rolling "buyers check-list" so people can be aware), so it's interesting to see the research you've done, the time you've taken, and the conclusions you've come to. That said from what I've read on here, and certainly from my own experience, I'd be more concerned than you appear to be about potential issues. But keep the faith.

You'd be unlucky to get "a bad one" for sure, but I think there might be more potential issues than maybe you've raised, I'm thinking mostly of those you've put aside as minor and/or non issues.



As a footnote, we're not "European", MINI2 very much international in readership, and more trafficc come from North America than anywhere else.

[Rakey]

excellent thread, and well done you for your hard work shifting through it all to give a summary

[Paul]

^^ What he said. I re-read what I posted and it sounds a bit like nit-picking, I'm not really, just more interested to learn more about your way of thinking, it's interesting too as you're a new "soon to be owner", and people who are fresh always have different, and interesting angles on the MINI, especially to an aged old campaigner like myself!

[Rakey]

it didn't sound like nit picking Paul, you raised the things I'd have asked too if I had been first to post in here, and I hope that they are clarified too, as the more its backed up the better, might calm a few people up that keep saying the R56 is falling apart and a step backwards QC wise etc.

[Ken Cooper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

^^ What he said. I re-read what I posted and it sounds a bit like nit-picking, I'm not really, just more interested to learn more about your way of thinking, it's interesting too as you're a new "soon to be owner", and people who are fresh always have different, and interesting angles on the MINI, especially to an aged old campaigner like myself!

Hi Paul,

The point is, it is very difficult in this section to separate out the early manufacturing stage problems from current problems. My original goal was to see if the frequency of problems was decreasing with manufacturing maturity. This of course is very hard to determine because the number of R56s on the road increases on a daily basis. Now had the rate of complaints run linearly with the increased number of R56s on the road, there's every evidence that this site would absolutely scare away anyone who might be researching the possibility of buying a new Mini Cooper.

You mentioned that maybe I was showing a bit too much optimism regarding improvement in MC quality. True, in nature I tend to lean on the side of optimism, but it's cautious optimism. In sorting through all these postings, it is definitely my sense though that the rate of posted problems is certainly not keeping up with the rate of new R56 sales. And personally I think I see some degree of an inverse relationship.

It's not easy separating the wheat from the chaff in perusing all these postings. And yes there is a certain amount of judgement decision making involved in rating these problems. I can no more be exact in evaluating each issue than can each person posting a problem be exact in defining the relative severity of their problem in relation to someone else's. I did do the best I could though.

One other point, had I discovered that reality in detail matched the perception in general that this site leaves, I would more than likely not be the "soon to be owner" that you refer to.

By the way, a few years back Audi had a very serious reliability issue with its A4. My responsibility on the North American forum was to provide clarity and visual reality to the problem. I took on the job because there was no way to gauge its severity, its probability of occurance, or when or under what conditions it was most likely to attack any given individual's car. As it turned out, virtually every 2002 A4 owner would be hit if Audi couldn't come up with a fix. Eventually they did. Every owner ended up with a complete new set of ignition coilpacks.

For some reason, separating perception from reality has always been important to me.

I think you had some other questions regarding my posting but I've sifted through that stuff ad naseum and choose not to return any more to those postings (something I'd have to do to accurately respond).

I hope this helps in your learning more about my way of thinking.

By the way, I think we all very much appreciate what you do for this forum. If I hadn't developed quite a lot of respect for you I would not have put this effort into this response.

[Olly.]

Excellent work, thanks for taking the time to compile all of this

[daro911]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ken Cooper (original)

Periodically someone will put a link to this topic on the NAM Mini Cooper forum (creates a certain degree of alarm).

After Analyzing this scary looking group of problems my concerns lessened. I wrote it up on the NAM site. Here is a copy:

Thanks for you time and effort and restoring my faith in my MCS born this week according to my dealer

[Cotgo]

Wow, there is no way I could have sifted through all those posts as you have. My MC is scheduled to be born next week and I do feel much better after your research. However, my biggest concern now is the service at the dealerships in my area. I've never read such horror stories repairing the Mini's under warranty or off.

Great job.