MINI2

KenL · Mar 15th, 2007, 12:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ZZTOP (original)

Dont forget this engine has direct fuel injection, like the FSi on the VW range and even the GTI 5 sounds a bit like a diesel when it idles with the bonnet open? Could be part of the noise being heard.?? After all, diesels are "direct injection"... my 5c

Exactly, I said this too

When I got my VW 1.6FSI, I thought it was a diesel at first, especially when gently pulling away. This sound went pretty much completely after a few k miles.

I guess this is the price you pay for better economy and reduced emissions

CBCooper · Mar 15th, 2007, 01:40 PM

This is my engine on a *quiet* day. We have two R56 MCS' in the family and the red one certainly does not sound like this. Again just reving to under 2k
Video of R56 MCS Engine noise - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

CB

Unfortunately uploading the video to photobucket actually loses some of the sound definition. The photobucket vid doesnt sound as bad as my original source.

msh441 · Mar 15th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Both videos are rough and the sound isn't great, but...

Some of it sounds like it's from the direct injection. Thats more the consistant rattly noise you hear. Kind of like a diesel. Perfectly normal to hear it at idel with the hood open like that. Again it's got a consistant tone and tempo though, and I would say it's normal for this car.

In the mix there however (second video especially), is somthing different. An intermittant knock. Noticably louder on the left side (near the timing chain) somewhat reinforcing the tentioner question.

Seems like most are experiencing this knock when it's cold out? The new engine has an "on demand" water and (I believe) oil pump that doesn't kick on until the block is up to operating temps. Any possibility the cam chain and main bearing aren't getting enough oil upon start up. Colder conditions = less viscosity & lubrication through the system. Oils starvation in the timing chain and main bearing causing problems? It's a thought.

Again though, somewhat confusing video unless you listen close. Those only hearing the surface DI rattle are gonna get paranoid over nothing. Know what I mean?

pimbeche · Mar 16th, 2007, 07:37 AM

it is normal guys, you just need to drive it until it have reached its normal running-operating tempreturem this is why you dont hear the sound after a longer journey than just 5 min.

dneal · Mar 16th, 2007, 09:07 AM

Any time the motor is running, it needs oil pressure. The "on-demand" oil pump is actually "flow controlled". Personally I think it's a stupid idea for a reported 1% fuel savings.

As for the knocking... If the knock goes away when the engine warms, your problem is piston slap. True knocks (wristpins, spun bearings, etc...) don't go away. Many manufactuers will claim piston slap is normal, but some people have been able to get the dealer to replace the offending piston(s). My wife's Toyota exhibits piston slap, and Toyota refused to do anything about it.

GM went so far as to extend the warranty of its engines that were prone to slap (in order to give some peace of mind to consumers).

I do not believe it is "normal", particularly because it doesn't happen identically across all engines of the same model. The argument you should present to your dealer is "that other car doesn't slap (knock), so is it abnormal?"

chipcooper · Mar 19th, 2007, 08:10 PM

It's an awful sound! If i had known i was buying a car that sounds like the bin wagon i wouldn't have bought it

My MCS sounds like something is going to fall off when you start it up when the weather is very cold! But doesn't sound to bad when weather is a bit warmer

CBCooper · Mar 19th, 2007, 10:09 PM

I know the feeling Chip, when i start my car at work and people turn to stare with the *what the hell is wrong with that!* look.
Its actually embarrassing to drive it until the noise stops and several of my workmates have asked me whats up with my motor....if only i knew! The loose spanners in a cement mixer sound
isnt quite the noise i expected from such a sophisticated engine, but anyway mine goes in on Wednesday for afew days to be looked at, will keep you posted.

CB

CC07ERS · Mar 19th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Mine done this one morning then nothing hope ya get it resolved.

CBCooper · Mar 21st, 2007, 01:50 PM

A couple of more vids if anyone else can give further ideas as to what the noise can be...

Bonnetup.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Coldstart.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

CB

Tracie · Mar 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM

Flippin heck!... I'd expect that sound from a Diesel not from a petrol engine, I'd be taking it back to the Dealer for some sort of explanation if it were me.

CBCooper · Mar 21st, 2007, 08:37 PM

My car is at the dealers as we speak, those vids i took this morning before i took my car in. I await with bated breath to see if they can fix it.

CB

CooperS4us · Mar 21st, 2007, 09:14 PM

So what's the final verdict? Has MINI UK admit there is a fault with the noise? Yes or no?

msh441 · Mar 22nd, 2007, 07:18 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by CBCooper (original)

My car is at the dealers as we speak, those vids i took this morning before i took my car in. I await with bated breath to see if they can fix it.

CB

I have a strong suspicion that they won't find anything.

The only video on this thread that doesn't sound like every other common rail direct injection system that I've ever heard is DaveyC's back on page 2:

Video of enginenoise - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

...and I think that was diagnosed as a cam chain tentioner if I recal? Granted he's having some other issues, too. (Best of luck to you DaveyC)

I'm not hearing anything out of the ordinary on any of the other vids, myself... but hey, it's the internet. What could I possibly know. Take 'em in and see what they say. Post your findings here ASAP ('cause I'm curious, too).

DaveyC · Mar 22nd, 2007, 08:14 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by msh441 (original)

The only video on this thread that doesn't sound like every other common rail direct injection system that I've ever heard is DaveyC's back on page 2:

...and I think that was diagnosed as a cam chain tentioner if I recal? Granted he's having some other issues, too. (Best of luck to you DaveyC)

They have fitted the cam chain tensioner yesterday, just waiting for a call after the cold start this morning. Will keep everyone informed, expecting a call at 9.30 but it will probably be 4.30.

DaveyC · Mar 22nd, 2007, 01:34 PM

Just spoken to my dealer and they have confirmed that the new timing chain tensioner has sorted my noisy engine

Still looking at the noisy gearbox

but at least I am getting somewere

msh441 · Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveyC (original)

Just spoken to my dealer and they have confirmed that the new timing chain tensioner has sorted my noisy engine

Still looking at the noisy gearbox

but at least I am getting somewere

Good news!

It's some progress, at least. Curious to hear what you think upon pickup.

CBCooper · Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:10 PM

I got my car back yesterday after having a new chain tensioner piston fitted to *presumably* rectify my engine rattle from cold. My car's engine was still warm and had recently been moved when i collected it so the noise did not occur. Started it today..........same noise, absolutely no difference whatsoever. I really dont know what to do

With regards to msh441's comments on hearing nothing out of the ordinary compare the two vids below, one is when it starts ok without any abnormal noise the other is not.
What these short clips cannot convey is how loud the knocking/tapping is, its really alarming!

Enginebehaving.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Coldstart.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

CB

CooperS4us · Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:32 PM

So what is MINI UK's position on this?

d9hug · Mar 23rd, 2007, 02:58 PM

I have had the same noise - noticed it seems to occur when run from cold for a short period - for example when moving the cars about on the drive - first time move is ok and then when I go to move it back the noise appears.

chipcooper · Mar 23rd, 2007, 06:50 PM

I really didn't want to here that CB! What's your next move?

Mar 15th, 2007, 12:07 PM	#41
KenL MINI2 Master Join Date: May 2002 Location: Edinburgh Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 5,259 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ZZTOP (original) Dont forget this engine has direct fuel injection, like the FSi on the VW range and even the GTI 5 sounds a bit like a diesel when it idles with the bonnet open? Could be part of the noise being heard.?? After all, diesels are "direct injection"... my 5c Exactly, I said this too When I got my VW 1.6FSI, I thought it was a diesel at first, especially when gently pulling away. This sound went pretty much completely after a few k miles. I guess this is the price you pay for better economy and reduced emissions Red/Black R56 Cooper

Mar 15th, 2007, 04:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
msh441 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pacific NW Local Time: 04:03 PM Posts: 454 Offline	Both videos are rough and the sound isn't great, but... Some of it sounds like it's from the direct injection. Thats more the consistant rattly noise you hear. Kind of like a diesel. Perfectly normal to hear it at idel with the hood open like that. Again it's got a consistant tone and tempo though, and I would say it's normal for this car. In the mix there however (second video especially), is somthing different. An intermittant knock. Noticably louder on the left side (near the timing chain) somewhat reinforcing the tentioner question. Seems like most are experiencing this knock when it's cold out? The new engine has an "on demand" water and (I believe) oil pump that doesn't kick on until the block is up to operating temps. Any possibility the cam chain and main bearing aren't getting enough oil upon start up. Colder conditions = less viscosity & lubrication through the system. Oils starvation in the timing chain and main bearing causing problems? It's a thought. Again though, somewhat confusing video unless you listen close. Those only hearing the surface DI rattle are gonna get paranoid over nothing. Know what I mean? Founding member of R56 Anonymous: "Hello. My name is Mike. I'm a driving enthusiast... and I still like the R56"

Mar 19th, 2007, 08:10 PM	#46 (permalink)
chipcooper MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bolton Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 74 Offline	It's an awful sound! If i had known i was buying a car that sounds like the bin wagon i wouldn't have bought it My MCS sounds like something is going to fall off when you start it up when the weather is very cold! But doesn't sound to bad when weather is a bit warmer COOPER S

Mar 21st, 2007, 09:14 PM	#52 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 07:03 PM Posts: 955 Offline	So what's the final verdict? Has MINI UK admit there is a fault with the noise? Yes or no? '02 Cooper CVT PW/B Leatherette, MFSW, 15" 8-spokes '05 MCS CR/W

Mar 22nd, 2007, 07:18 AM	#53 (permalink)
msh441 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pacific NW Local Time: 04:03 PM Posts: 454 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by CBCooper (original) My car is at the dealers as we speak, those vids i took this morning before i took my car in. I await with bated breath to see if they can fix it. CB I have a strong suspicion that they won't find anything. The only video on this thread that doesn't sound like every other common rail direct injection system that I've ever heard is DaveyC's back on page 2: Video of enginenoise - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting ...and I think that was diagnosed as a cam chain tentioner if I recal? Granted he's having some other issues, too. (Best of luck to you DaveyC) I'm not hearing anything out of the ordinary on any of the other vids, myself... but hey, it's the internet. What could I possibly know. Take 'em in and see what they say. Post your findings here ASAP ('cause I'm curious, too). Founding member of R56 Anonymous: "Hello. My name is Mike. I'm a driving enthusiast... and I still like the R56"

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Mar 15th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#42 (permalink)
CBCooper November build Diesel MCS Join Date: Oct 2003 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 77 Offline	This is my engine on a quiet day. We have two R56 MCS' in the family and the red one certainly does not sound like this. Again just reving to under 2k Video of R56 MCS Engine noise - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting CB Unfortunately uploading the video to photobucket actually loses some of the sound definition. The photobucket vid doesnt sound as bad as my original source.

Mar 16th, 2007, 07:37 AM	#44 (permalink)
pimbeche MINI2 Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 59 Offline	it is normal guys, you just need to drive it until it have reached its normal running-operating tempreturem this is why you dont hear the sound after a longer journey than just 5 min.

Mar 16th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#45 (permalink)
dneal MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Local Time: 01:03 AM Posts: 35 Offline	Any time the motor is running, it needs oil pressure. The "on-demand" oil pump is actually "flow controlled". Personally I think it's a stupid idea for a reported 1% fuel savings. As for the knocking... If the knock goes away when the engine warms, your problem is piston slap. True knocks (wristpins, spun bearings, etc...) don't go away. Many manufactuers will claim piston slap is normal, but some people have been able to get the dealer to replace the offending piston(s). My wife's Toyota exhibits piston slap, and Toyota refused to do anything about it. GM went so far as to extend the warranty of its engines that were prone to slap (in order to give some peace of mind to consumers). I do not believe it is "normal", particularly because it doesn't happen identically across all engines of the same model. The argument you should present to your dealer is "that other car doesn't slap (knock), so is it abnormal?"

Mar 19th, 2007, 10:09 PM	#47 (permalink)
CBCooper November build Diesel MCS Join Date: Oct 2003 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 77 Offline	I know the feeling Chip, when i start my car at work and people turn to stare with the what the hell is wrong with that! look. Its actually embarrassing to drive it until the noise stops and several of my workmates have asked me whats up with my motor....if only i knew! The loose spanners in a cement mixer sound isnt quite the noise i expected from such a sophisticated engine, but anyway mine goes in on Wednesday for afew days to be looked at, will keep you posted. CB

Mar 19th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#48 (permalink)
CC07ERS TYPE R GT VTEC POWERED My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Type R GT Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 2,694 Offline	Mine done this one morning then nothing hope ya get it resolved.

Mar 21st, 2007, 01:50 PM	#49 (permalink)
CBCooper November build Diesel MCS Join Date: Oct 2003 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 77 Offline	A couple of more vids if anyone else can give further ideas as to what the noise can be... Bonnetup.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Coldstart.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting CB

Mar 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM	#50 (permalink)
Tracie MINI less. My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Poole, Dorset.UK Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 2,900 Offline	Flippin heck!... I'd expect that sound from a Diesel not from a petrol engine, I'd be taking it back to the Dealer for some sort of explanation if it were me.

Mar 21st, 2007, 08:37 PM	#51 (permalink)
CBCooper November build Diesel MCS Join Date: Oct 2003 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 77 Offline	My car is at the dealers as we speak, those vids i took this morning before i took my car in. I await with bated breath to see if they can fix it. CB

Mar 22nd, 2007, 08:14 AM	#54 (permalink)
DaveyC MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ingleby Barwick Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 180 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by msh441 (original) The only video on this thread that doesn't sound like every other common rail direct injection system that I've ever heard is DaveyC's back on page 2: ...and I think that was diagnosed as a cam chain tentioner if I recal? Granted he's having some other issues, too. (Best of luck to you DaveyC) They have fitted the cam chain tensioner yesterday, just waiting for a call after the cold start this morning. Will keep everyone informed, expecting a call at 9.30 but it will probably be 4.30.

Mar 22nd, 2007, 01:34 PM	#55 (permalink)
DaveyC MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ingleby Barwick Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 180 Offline	Just spoken to my dealer and they have confirmed that the new timing chain tensioner has sorted my noisy engine Still looking at the noisy gearbox but at least I am getting somewere

Mar 22nd, 2007, 10:04 PM	#56 (permalink)
msh441 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pacific NW Local Time: 04:03 PM Posts: 454 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by DaveyC (original) Just spoken to my dealer and they have confirmed that the new timing chain tensioner has sorted my noisy engine Still looking at the noisy gearbox but at least I am getting somewere Good news! It's some progress, at least. Curious to hear what you think upon pickup. Founding member of R56 Anonymous: "Hello. My name is Mike. I'm a driving enthusiast... and I still like the R56"

Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:10 PM	#57 (permalink)
CBCooper November build Diesel MCS Join Date: Oct 2003 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 77 Offline	I got my car back yesterday after having a new chain tensioner piston fitted to presumably rectify my engine rattle from cold. My car's engine was still warm and had recently been moved when i collected it so the noise did not occur. Started it today..........same noise, absolutely no difference whatsoever. I really dont know what to do With regards to msh441's comments on hearing nothing out of the ordinary compare the two vids below, one is when it starts ok without any abnormal noise the other is not. What these short clips cannot convey is how loud the knocking/tapping is, its really alarming! Enginebehaving.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Coldstart.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting CB

Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:32 PM	#58 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 07:03 PM Posts: 955 Offline	So what is MINI UK's position on this? '02 Cooper CVT PW/B Leatherette, MFSW, 15" 8-spokes '05 MCS CR/W

Mar 23rd, 2007, 02:58 PM	#59 (permalink)
d9hug MINI2 Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 51 Offline	I have had the same noise - noticed it seems to occur when run from cold for a short period - for example when moving the cars about on the drive - first time move is ok and then when I go to move it back the noise appears.

Mar 23rd, 2007, 06:50 PM	#60 (permalink)
chipcooper MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bolton Local Time: 12:03 AM Posts: 74 Offline	I really didn't want to here that CB! What's your next move? COOPER S

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