[MJS]

the next question must be;

has anybody had a replacement engine and the noise appeared again on the new unit?

and maybe another;
maybe we could set up a poll to find out build date and engine tractor noise? That way we might get some figures from the community and take it from there?

[tomasso]

@Rogan,

ha this sound familiar. Read the responds that I got from Mini UK. Besides the annoying, no reaction on my questions, the only difference between the UK and Dutch specifications I could find is the location of the steeringwheel : P

===========================================

Dear Mr Jansen

Thank you for contacting MINI Customer Information in the UK.

We are sorry to hear of you troubles with MINI in Holland. Excessive rattling is certainly not a common fault associated with any of our vehicle, however if you visit your local approved MINI specialist they should be able to investigate this further.

With your vehicle being built to Dutch specification, MINI UK is unable to comment on your particular situation. Dutch specification vehicles do differ to UK specification ones, so we cannot advise further in this instance.

Our best advice would be for you to visit your local MINI specialist again, and ask them to investigate the matter further.

We trust this is of use.

Yours sincerely

MINI UK

bla bla bla.........

[caesar]

BMW are obviously stalling, if they admit there is a problem it would have a drastic effect on their sales and a panic reaction from current MCS owners.

I would imagine BMW have contacted all their Dealers about this problem and briefed them to 'put up a smoke screen'. After all it is in the Dealers interest to do so.

We as a forum represent a small number of owners as a percentage of their total sales, but as so many of us have the 'noise' problem it must be serious.

The fact BMW have replaced parts and engines is a Public Relations exercise to show owners they care, and meanwhile giving their technical staff time to find what is the cause and how it can be fixed.

In the meantime we have to be patient, we can still use our cars and nobody has reported an engine cease functioning that we know of. Their logistics department have hopefully received feedback from their Dealer network and they have the full picture.

It is in our interest as owners not to broadcast the 'noise' problem as we would have difficulty selling our cars.

In case anybody thinks I am in anyway connected with BMW they are wrong !!!

[Tunster]

In total honestly, knowing there are thousands of R56 MCS owners out there, there's a very small pecentage having the problem here within the MINI2 community.

As much as it's concerning, I don't think people should be overreacting as much as they are. If it was such a serious problem, they would of done a major recall. What's the point sitting on a problem? For the consumer and potential new customers, it's bad for BMW not to respond to potential serious defects. This is if it is of course and I personally don't think it is.

I'm not saying we should be quiet about the issue, but, I think we've got to sit tight. Knowing of the issue before I bought my MCS, I wasn't going to be put off .

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

In total honestly, knowing there are thousands of R56 MCS owners out there, there's a very small pecentage having the problem here within the MINI2 community.

There was a similar discussion about this on NAM. The real numbers broke down to about 400 registered R56S owners on NAM. Between 25 and 30 are reporting this issue vocally. That's about one out of every 13-16 cars sold and 6-7% is by no means a small percentage. Though not necessarily representative of the non-enthusiast MINI community... that's a disturbing figure even if the real number is half that. All kidding aside, MINI is very motivated and committed at getting to the bottom of this ASAP.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

As much as it's concerning, I don't think people should be overreacting as much as they are. If it was such a serious problem, they would of done a major recall. What's the point sitting on a problem? For the consumer and potential new customers, it's bad for BMW not to respond to potential serious defects. This is if it is of course and I personally don't think it is..

I think the act of buying back cars (3 or 4 here on MINI 2) or replacing engines (another 4 or 5 here) if they weren't acknowledging a problem. Add to that the number of owners here who have experienced the rattle but are either living with it or in the early stages of pursuing it with their dealer and I think you'll find higher percentages here effected as on NAM. Remember, MINI 2 ownershave had the car 4 -5 months longer than the generally US/NAM audience.

Right now it boils down to two things: Knowledge and money.

Does BMW really know what's causing the rattle and how to fix it? All clues point to "not yet".

Secondly, will they fork out the €€€ for a full on recall on ALL 2007 and 2008 cars once a fix is identified? Probably not. They will more likley attempt cheaper alternatives(chain tensioner pistons and the like). If those fail to fix the issue to the customers satisfaction, the finalized "fix" will be employed... but not until then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

I'm not saying we should be quiet about the issue, but, I think we've got to sit tight. Knowing of the issue before I bought my MCS, I wasn't going to be put off .

I agree. I wouldn't be too put off, either. Despite my experience... the car has been a pleasure to drive over the past year. I love, Love, LOVE it!!! It's the most fun you can have on 4-wheels IMO. My MINI dealership has been very helpful in making this process as painless as possible. I have been compensated enough that I'm willing to wait and see how things will turn out.

Bottom line, though: If it pops up in the new engine... and the REAL fix/recall isn't availible at that time... I won't be driving a MINI after that.

[fbirch]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJS (original)

the next question must be;

has anybody had a replacement engine and the noise appeared again on the new unit?

and maybe another;
maybe we could set up a poll to find out build date and engine tractor noise? That way we might get some figures from the community and take it from there?

Yes, there have been cases reported of the problem reappearing in new engines, and this leads to another question: If most owners do NOT experience this problem, yet other owners have encountered it multiple times after replacing minor parts, entire cylinder heads, and complete engines, is there something about the way they're using the car, or the environment they're exposing it to that is contributing to the problem? This question is by no means a suggestion that certain owners are to blame for the problem, but instead is an observation that something is going on with cars belonging to certain owners that is very hard to accept as a random event. If only 5% of engines coming off the line had this problem and the distribution of the problem was truly random, it would be very unlikely that any given owner who received an entirely new engine would encounter the problem again - yet it has happened. It makes me suspect that something is at work here that goes beyond a random manufacturing issue.

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by fbirch (original)

... is there something about the way they're using the car, or the environment they're exposing it to that is contributing to the problem? This question is by no means a suggestion that certain owners are to blame for the problem, but instead is an observation that something is going on with cars belonging to certain owners that is very hard to accept as a random event...

That would seem to be possible... but very unlikley. I can only speak for myself: Textbook break as per MINI/BMW recomendantions followed by an oil change at 1500 miles (the first time around). Car had two track days and a few autocross sessions. Nothing that it wasn't designed for (or so I would assume!). But I've seen a few NAM owners who are old-timers who only use the car as a grocery-getter and always drive at 5mph UNDER... so, I'm doubtful.

I believe it would be far more likley to occur during the manufacturing process. After the head is cast, it's usually milled then media blasted (or blasted, then milled and blasted again). Depending on quality control... it wouln't be unheard of (read Ford) for there to be variations in the degree to which the heads are flushed and prepped prior to assembaly. Clog an oil passage just a little bit and you create the seed for starvation issues in the oil circut. It's happened with other makers out there.

[Des]

We've a couple people experiencing the problem at our dutch new mini club forum also. Mini Netherlands does very little to find the problem, they even send the dealers a note that what is described as this noise and problem belongs to the car, and that the dealers are not allowed to act on it :-|

About 13 R56 drivers have reported the problem at our forum discussion here:

Bekijk onderwerp - Vreemde geluiden

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Des (original)

We've a couple people experiencing the problem at our dutch new mini club forum also. Mini Netherlands does very little to find the problem, they even send the dealers a note that what is described as this noise and problem belongs to the car, and that the dealers are not allowed to act on it :-|

About 13 R56 drivers have reported the problem at our forum discussion here:

Bekijk onderwerp - Vreemde geluiden

It's all double Dutch to me

[Des]

Quote: Originally Posted by caesar (original)

It's all double Dutch to me

Yeah that's why I wrote a little summary 2 of them sold their Mini because of the noise btw. And I'm starting to think about doing the same since the dealer and Mini doesn't seem to take it seriously at all.

[MJS]

Quote: Originally Posted by fbirch (original)

Yes, there have been cases reported of the problem reappearing in new engines, and this leads to another question: If most owners do NOT experience this problem, yet other owners have encountered it multiple times after replacing minor parts, entire cylinder heads, and complete engines, is there something about the way they're using the car, or the environment they're exposing it to that is contributing to the problem? This question is by no means a suggestion that certain owners are to blame for the problem, but instead is an observation that something is going on with cars belonging to certain owners that is very hard to accept as a random event. If only 5% of engines coming off the line had this problem and the distribution of the problem was truly random, it would be very unlikely that any given owner who received an entirely new engine would encounter the problem again - yet it has happened. It makes me suspect that something is at work here that goes beyond a random manufacturing issue.

Good suggestion, I can see where you are going with this...

But the problem is quite widespread, certainly across the UK and people I have spoken to. I know from my experience, that I ran the car in correctly, it is garaged every night, never red lined and allowed to warm up from cold before driving hard. I live in the North West of England so temperatures are not too extreme.

I think suggesting the way owners treat and drive the car is looking at it from the wrong angle and trying to find excuses for the problem trying to shift blame.

If we are looking at figures, I know of 2 other MCS owners who have heard the tractor noise on their car but aren't really bothered or concerned about it.
I don't what what the real life figures are as there are a lot of mini owners who aren't on this forum (UK and worldwide) who may have this problem as well. We will never know how widespread this problem is unless you asked each and every R56 MCS owner...

Like I said previous, I would hope and expect a new unit to totally resolve the problem, but I was curious if anybody had a new unit had the problem come back.
This would suggest to me that it is a design flaw of the internals of the engine and there has been no update or change.

[Littlemax]

Hey Des,
if i was you, i would go to a lawyer if mini are not taking you serious !!!!!!! ...we MCS Drivers in germany have the same problem.

[viden]

Quote: Originally Posted by caesar (original)

Thats very interesting to hear as it would cause a rattling noise, but might not be related to the 'noise' we are discussing.

When was your MCS built and what distance has it done when you heard the rattle ??

Caesar => It's without doubt the same noise I've had. It seems like it's gone now though. My car is a December 2006 build with appx 19000 miles on the clock. I've had the sound from about 9000, with it coming and going.

I have never seen this resolution on here before, so it could indeed be the cause, as it seems all of the other "fixes" has been useless.

[Tunster]

We know the 207 GTi has the exact same engine. I have read on a few 207 GTi forums and they're experiencing the same "diesel ticking" noises. They've had all sorts of responses from Peugeot, right from "it's normal as it the injectors", "no, we cant do anything" or "there is a problem, but its a design flaw with oil starvation". It seems MINI are pulling out more effort to try and solve this. Most of the 207 GTi owners have given up trying to find out why and continuing to use their car as normal or trading them in.

I think it would be a good idea to collate everyones problems here so it could be turned into a petition of some sort.

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by viden (original)

Caesar => It's without doubt the same noise I've had. It seems like it's gone now though. My car is a December 2006 build with appx 19000 miles on the clock. I've had the sound from about 9000, with it coming and going.

I have never seen this resolution on here before, so it could indeed be the cause, as it seems all of the other "fixes" has been useless.

Viden....the noise we are discussing comes from the engine whereas the noise you had was from the exhaust catalyst shield because it was loose. This would probably make a similar noise but as the catalyst is located underneath the car as it's part of the exhaust system the noise would come from a different area

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by caesar (original)

Viden....the noise we are discussing comes from the engine whereas the noise you had was from the exhaust catalyst shield because it was loose. This would probably make a similar noise but as the catalyst is located underneath the car as it's part of the exhaust system the noise would come from a different area

The cat is on the downpipe on UK / European spec cars. US cars have two cats, one in downpipe and the other underneath car.

Can't see this being the problem personally !

Confusing issue, as many who have reported this issue have it constantly or can provoke it to do it under certain conditions. I have had the rattle twice in 7,700 miles....................WHY?.

[MJS]

Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original)

Confusing issue, as many who have reported this issue have it constantly or can provoke it to do it under certain conditions. I have had the rattle twice in 7,700 miles....................WHY?.

I don't know if it's a case of provoking it, but mine happens when you rev it to about 1500-1800rpm when the engine is cold. I would say weather conditions affect it, but there is no correlation there so that is inconclusive at the moment.

In case anybody is unclear of the "noise", here is mine after the full timing gear change.

R1 MJS

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJS (original)

I don't know if it's a case of provoking it, but mine happens when you rev it to about 1500-1800rpm when the engine is cold. I would say weather conditions affect it, but there is no correlation there so that is inconclusive at the moment.

In case anybody is unclear of the "noise", here is mine after the full timing gear change.

R1 MJS

There is a slight rattle but it's very slight......it's a lot quieter than the noise I get occasionally with my June 07 build MCS which has done 6K miles and no work done on it by the Dealer since new.

[MJS]

Quote: Originally Posted by caesar (original)

There is a slight rattle but it's very slight......it's a lot quieter than the noise I get occasionally with my June 07 build MCS which has done 6K miles and no work done on it by the Dealer since new.

Slight rattle? may I suggest you turn your speakers up.

I would hate to hear your "noise" if you think mine is a lot quieter

Like I said before, my Dealer, Mini UK in Oxford and BMW AG in Germany have seen this video and obviously think its serious enough to replace the full engine from this.

So if you think it is a slight rattle, I certainly don't and I do not expect this or any other new car to make this noise

[Bishamon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

In total honestly, knowing there are thousands of R56 MCS owners out there, there's a very small pecentage having the problem here within the MINI2 community.

Actually, I would argue that, given that this forum represents only a small percentage of Mini owners, as well as the fact that the R56 has only been widely available for a year (so a small percentage of Mini2 members are R56 owners), and given that an even smaller percentage of Mini2 members are active or post regularly, the sheer number of people reporting the problem here suggests that it is very widespread, indeed! Also, bear in mind that many who experience the problem may not feel comfortable reporting it publicly, and other R56 owners who would experience this issue may reside in climates where temperatures never drop low enough to cause it to occur.