[drb5]

That's the problem though mate, the service manager was asked to phone me and let me know how i'd stand if they repaired the bodywork and i wasn't completely happy with the outcome....he didn't. That was an option for him and a friendly one at that, but he was, as my salesperson put it "very black and white about it all".

I can't do any more than that i don't think.

[drb5]

Well the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders pretty much put it simply, the ball is in my court and if i'm not happy with the car and it's faults and i can get my money back no problem what-so-ever.

The dealer will probably argue this they told me, but it's my right to get a refund.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by drb5 (original)

That's the problem though mate, the service manager was asked to phone me and let me know how i'd stand if they repaired the bodywork and i wasn't completely happy with the outcome....he didn't. That was an option for him and a friendly one at that, but he was, as my salesperson put it "very black and white about it all".

I can't do any more than that i don't think.

Wait - so he was asked to contact you and he told the salesperson that he wasn't going to? That doesn't sound good!

It would really suck if it ended up being a rejection claim, so let's hope things pick up a bit more at the dealership.

All the best,
Andrew.

[drb5]

Pretty much yes, but then i don't know exactly what the salesperson told him. I ask to know what my options were if i let the car get repaired, but for all i know, the salesperson forgot to mention this to the service manager.

They SHOULD have told them, as i made this clear, even when picking the new number plate up, but they didn't deny NOT telling him. lol

I think i'll be going for a refund tbh, as i don't want a repaired car, that will still have the engine fault and i don't want a replacement car as that may come with common faults....still have to ask what the other half would like to do though...............as well as speak/write to the dealer.

[NeuroBeaker]

I'd make sure to get in direct contact with the Service Manager prior to making a decision. No wondering if your message got through other staff. Write directly to them, or speak to them in person in the dealership. They might be able to help out with the engine too - you just need to see what they feel they can do when you get to talking to them directly.

Ever played Chinese Whispers? That's why letters are good - there's no: "he said you said" stuff in there. Sounds like at the moment that there's a bit of confusion involved - it'd be good to remove that from the situation.

All the best,
Andrew.

[drb5]

He was blunt with me on the day i showed him the car too though.

It's true i shouldn't take that as gospel, but i'll get my letter at the ready, for after i've spoken to the SMTA and got their advice.

[NeuroBeaker]

Good luck - I really hope it works out ok.

Andrew.

[drb5]

Thanks fella.

At the end of the day, i know a repaired car ISN'T what i want and other than that, the service manager can't offer me anything else. I asked for compensation at the start, but got a very abrupt "no".

[KenL]

Quote: Originally Posted by ARCrawford (original)

You know, I think before a rejection is on the table, the dealership had to first have had a stab at fixing the problem. Without the dealer getting their fix attempt, I don't think a rejection will be agreed and you'll end up in a long legal battle.

Not true. Faulty goods are faulty goods.

I am not saying rejection should always be the goal but a car delivered with faults contravenes the supply of goods act and the buyer should have the option of rejecting the vehicle.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by KenL (original)

Not true. Faulty goods are faulty goods.

I am not saying rejection should always be the goal but a car delivered with faults contravenes the supply of goods act and the buyer should have the option of rejecting the vehicle.

Faulty goods are faulty goods, but a car is in essence made up of several discreet components. The dealer would probably argue that they will replace the faulty components rather than allow the entire car to be rejected so easily?

[drb5]

Buying goods - your rights

If the goods you buy are not FULLy what they should be, it is your allowance to get a replaement, have it repaired or get your money back.

This is a no quibble legal gaurantee, but the dealer can still argue it...till they get shown they have no leg to stand on. Or they can try to get you to keep the car and give you compensation, though i can't see with happening with BMW/Mini.

[NeuroBeaker]

Well, there's something new I've learned today.

[KenL]

Quote: Originally Posted by ARCrawford (original)

Well, there's something new I've learned today.

Should've listened to me eh!

Are you on :: NEWMINISCOTLAND :: ?

[iain cooper]

regarding the lines of communication being via letter, how about email ?

would this be possible, and do the forum think that email would be as good as or even better
than letter ?

certainly I feel it would be quicker and easier ??

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by drb5 (original)

Buying goods - your rights

If the goods you buy are not FULLy what they should be, it is your allowance to get a replaement, have it repaired or get your money back.

This is a no quibble legal gaurantee, but the dealer can still argue it...till they get shown they have no leg to stand on. Or they can try to get you to keep the car and give you compensation, though i can't see with happening with BMW/Mini.

I think you may have received some misleading advice. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended is generally applicable in Scotland and whilst the statement in your first paragraph is broadly true. Your second paragraph is not.

The law does not allow a consumer to reject goods on the basis of a very minor defect. The remedy available has to be proportionate. Here is a link to the law Sale of Goods Act 1979 (c. 54)

You need to look at section 48 and, in particular 48B which talks about the need for a remedy to be proportionate. What is proportionate is ultimately for a court to decide. Section 48D is also relevant.

I think you would be better trying to negotiate with the dealer as others have recommended. Often a dealer will be more generous than the courts would require.

If you want to try to assert your rights, as you understand them, I suggest you hire a good lawyer.

Sorry not to be more hopeful but I am concerned that you may be heading down a road to nowhere.

[KenL]

I would try to reach a satisfactory conclusion without resorting to a lawyer.

They are not cheap, are they!

I rejected a car without problems and got a replacement at no-cost and a car supplied until the other new car arrived (10 weeks).

This was a VW with a vibration through the gear lever in 1 gear.

I haven't read the whole thing but this suggests a new product should be free of minor defects:

(1) In section 14 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 (implied terms about quality or fitness) for subsection (2) there is substituted—
“(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.
(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.
(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.

This was taken from: Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 (c. 35)

A blemish in the paint and other faults are surely "minor defects".

[drb5]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

I think you may have received some misleading advice. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended is generally applicable in Scotland and whilst the statement in your first paragraph is broadly true. Your second paragraph is not.

The law does not allow a consumer to reject goods on the basis of a very minor defect. The remedy available has to be proportionate. Here is a link to the law Sale of Goods Act 1979 (c. 54)

You need to look at section 48 and, in particular 48B which talks about the need for a remedy to be proportionate. What is proportionate is ultimately for a court to decide. Section 48D is also relevant.

I think you would be better trying to negotiate with the dealer as others have recommended. Often a dealer will be more generous than the courts would require.

If you want to try to assert your rights, as you understand them, I suggest you hire a good lawyer.

Sorry not to be more hopeful but I am concerned that you may be heading down a road to nowhere.

Agreed, i shouldn't have put the "legal" bit in there, but at the end of the day, what is down in black and white, is i can reject the car because the car fails to meet:-

To be of satisfactory quality, products must normally:-
• do what they are supposed to do
• be safe
• be free from defects, including minor ones
• function properly for a reasonable period of time
• have a reasonably satisfactory finish and appearance

[drb5]

They most definately ARE minor defects Ken and added with both the engine noise with no definitive fix and the bodywork not able to go back to a FACTORY finish, i will have to accept either a replacement car, which may still come with these "common" faults again, or a refund.....something which, i've been told by 2 suitable parties, is not out of the question.

[Martin F]

If you are serious about rejection, stop using the car immediately and either return it with all paperwork keys etc to the dealer or ask the dealer to collect it.

Failure to do this may result in your being deemed to have accepted the car and your only remedy then is to ask the dealer to effect repairs.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by KenL (original)

Should've listened to me eh!

Are you on :: NEWMINISCOTLAND :: ?

Yep, I'm ARCrawford on there too. Actually, I only just found out about NEWMINISCOTLAND a few days ago - so I'm a fairly recent addition.

Quote: Originally Posted by drb5 (original)

They most definately ARE minor defects Ken and added with both the engine noise with no definitive fix and the bodywork not able to go back to a FACTORY finish, i will have to accept either a replacement car, which may still come with these "common" faults again, or a refund.....something which, i've been told by 2 suitable parties, is not out of the question.

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin F (original)

If you are serious about rejection, stop using the car immediately and either return it with all paperwork keys etc to the dealer or ask the dealer to collect it.

Failure to do this may result in your being deemed to have accepted the car and your only remedy then is to ask the dealer to effect repairs.

It does sound like your mind is made up drb5... if no fix by the dealer would be deemed suitable, then I'd do as Martin suggests.

All the best,
Andrew.