[marmite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Washy (original)

Not an expert, but I think the car stereo does the decoding as when you select a playlist you get a message saying retriving data from device...

I'd guess it means decoding artist / track data etc.
If audio data is going via usb to the car, why would it be necessary to plug the 3.5mm jack into the car?
I guess you can could test by connecting the 3.5 jack to a female->2->female plug, and plugging some earphones into it and
a) see if no car audio but data and
b) if audio coming is out of earphones.

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by marmite (original)

I'm sure quality is fine, but it's the ipod decoding then and not the car audio system - so quality could be different.

Quality is probably the same. In the 1st gen iPod adapters (both OEM and aftermarket), the audio signal came from the analog line out in the dock connector (iPod has no digital audio output). I suspect that the 2nd gen adapter works the same way, otherwise it would have to access and decode files directly, along with a DRM license from Apple. The USB setup does use the line out in the dock connector for the aux input.

Quote: Originally Posted by Washy (original)

Not an expert, but I think the car stereo does the decoding as when you select a playlist you get a message saying retriving data from device...

I think it is just retrieving the playlist and song titles/artists. The real test is whether you get a significant delay when you hit Play.

[yorkslad]

Hey Washy, any joy with that part number on your invoice?

[Washy]

Quote: Originally Posted by yorkslad (original)

Hey Washy, any joy with that part number on your invoice?

Will get it for you:

It is 61 12 0 431 424 ipod cable.

[Huggy]

The manual specifically says not to put a herd drive into the USB.

By the way, I have connected my IPODS via the normal white usb PC lead, it works OK up to a point, but I cant retrieve my bought itunes music and I also cant get any of my playlists up, although you can select by genre/artist album etc. Very frustrating, the dealer has no knowledge of the adaptor! I am off to get one of those special leads asap!!

[marmite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Huggy (original)

The manual specifically says not to put a herd drive into the USB.

Hm, I haven't seen mention of that in my manuals, where exactly?

And I wonder why, what is the fundamental difference between a large memory stick and a hard drive without drivers seen as a mass storage device ? Power usage presumably, but I thought as worked with iRiver with it's built in 20GB hard drive - would work with standalone USB powered hard drive..

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by marmite (original)

And I wonder why, what is the fundamental difference between a large memory stick and a hard drive without drivers seen as a mass storage device ? Power usage presumably, but I thought as worked with iRiver with it's built in 20GB hard drive - would work with standalone USB powered hard drive..

I would guess that many hard drives will work, but the USB may not provide enough power for some. Since they cannot guarantee that all hard drives will work, they make a blanket statement not to use one. I suppose that a hard drive running on too low power could be damaged or cause data errors. You can get additional power from the cigarette lighter, but more wires can get awkward.

[Huggy]

[quote=marmite;3151452]Hm, I haven't seen mention of that in my manuals, where exactly?

quote]

I can't check at the moment, my wife is out in the car, but from memory it is in a block of about 5 or 6 'do nots' at the end of the 2-3 pages dealing with the USB connector in the Entertainment section.

[marmite]

Ok, I should look at mine more closely when I get a chance..

however, brimming with confidence with my mates iRivier trial, I went out and bought a 80GB usb powered hard drive...

guess what ... you + rkw, were right!

It does power up, but it does appeear the car is not supplying enough power. I see by examining the power usage on the PC, that the drive is drawing 2 mA - at least that's what XP says in the device bus info.
I don't know what the car delivers, and I don't know what the iRiver needed, but I'm still in the dark really as to what will work. I could go and buy one of the iRiver's - but don't need mp3 player / screen etc as such and 20GB is a bit less than I want, and it will be a waste of money.
So what's needed is a low powered drive .. but how I find that I do not know..

A bit frustrating.

[Stiggy]

Marmite, I hate to say I ld you so... but...

Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggy (original)

Would there be enough power to drive a hard disk? memory sticks can run from the power of 1 USB socket, but a hard disk normally has a double headed USB cable and uses the power from 2 sockets. Sorry to get so techie!

It looks like a big USB pendrive is the answer.

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by marmite (original)

It does power up, but it does appeear the car is not supplying enough power. I see by examining the power usage on the PC, that the drive is drawing 2 mA - at least that's what XP says in the device bus info.

Some USB hard drives provide a second USB connector for extra power when needed (2 USB jacks on the device and you could plug 2 USB cables into the computer). If this is the case, you could use a cigarette plug to USB power adapter for the second connector, although the extra cable and adapter is not desirable.

There must surely be some USB drives available that use the same type of low powered hard disks installed in iPods and MP3 players.

[Stiggy]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkw (original)

There must surely be some USB drives available that use the same type of low powered hard disks installed in iPods and MP3 players.

You are forgetting that iPods and other MP3 players have a battery in them!

I'll look around for low-powered hard disks are report back. I the meantime you need to ask yourself do you really need a 20GB+ disk? You can get a lot of MP3s on a 4GB memory stick!

[marmite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggy (original)

You are forgetting that iPods and other MP3 players have a battery in them!!

But, as I said previously, the iRiver with its inbuild 20GB hard drive, as well as working, did say 'Charging' whilst powered by the car. Suggesting, that it was drawing enough(+) power from the car usb to run the drive itself and charge it.
Although as others have said, _perhaps_ it got initial surge from battery to spin drive and then needed less to 'run' and could then charge - who knows...
I can't remember brand but saw a drive that someone was selling that had a capacitor store, that could buffer power specifically to 'get the drive going' - all via usb.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggy (original)

I'll look around for low-powered hard disks are report back.

Let me know, if you find one! - though how to tell how much power it draw without trying it and how much car supplies. I have feeling from snippets I've read that car _may_ be supplying the minimal usb spec which I think is 500mA.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggy (original)

I the meantime you need to ask yourself do you really need a 20GB+ disk? You can get a lot of MP3s on a 4GB memory stick!

Yes! 4GB is just not enough. Oh sure it's enough to keep you entertained for a long journey, but my whole emphasis for getting a car jukebox, is to have everything I own on it, which would be about 15GB I'd guess at mo'
I don't currently own an mp3 portable of any kind - nor have I ever wanted one really, as only ever listen whilst driving - and if I have a system, I want to listen to what ever I know I own however seldom..

[rkw]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggy (original)

You are forgetting that iPods and other MP3 players have a battery in them!

Portables have tiny batteries yet could play 40 hours (the claim for 160 GB iPod classic). That can only be achieved with hard disks that use very little power. The majority of external USB drives use the same hard disks as used in laptop computers, which are not nearly as efficient.

[marmite]

Yes, that makes sense, different requirements, a portable HD is designed to be fast and PC 'friendly' - and mp3 hard disk need only have a slow transfer / seek time and so presumably require less power to do so.

Question is (and I have no idea) is it that unusual to have a power usb bus like that the mini provides on a computer whether that be a PC/Mac/laptop etc.?
If not that unusual, surely there must be a low powered drive out there (e.g for the laptop market).

Or maybe, I should resign myself to an mp3 player with HD, but then again, how am I going to be sure that IT requires 'low' power, I don't want the battery to depleat, I want to leave in the car semi-permananely.

[marmite]

Quote: Originally Posted by marmite (original)

I can't remember brand but saw a drive that someone was selling that had a capacitor store, that could buffer power specifically to 'get the drive going' - all via usb.

Found the drive I was thinking of:
Buffalo Boosts External Hard Drive Power | Tom's Hardware

this article also suggests that smaller drives 1.8" and 1" should work on 500mA supply. 1" drives are probably too small, but 1.8" drives sound promising.

[Washy]

I noticed my pictures have made it all the way on to NAM......and someone is questioning my dubious musical taste......

[marmite]

Been reading this BMW thread: *Official* 6FL iPod/USB Thread - Page 4 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com

Quote:

To connect the iPod a special adapter cable is necessary. The reason is that the iPod won't allow control and/or music streaming over an USB interface (unless you build in a stupid authentication chip made by Apple and then it would only work with iPod Nanos and the Video). Therefore this cable converts USB to serial. Audio comes to the car via an audio jack.

Discussions make it clear that analogue audio only is available via the 3.5mm jack and control/info only is provided by usb - That's Apple's fault - shame.
I'm sure the MINI setup is identical.
It does mean in theory that the quality of a standard USB stick/mass storage device will be better quality. Although you could argue that it's a question of whether the IPOD's chip or car's chip are better at processing the MP3's/AAC's.

[Stiggy]

Quote: Originally Posted by marmite (original)

Found the drive I was thinking of:
Buffalo Boosts External Hard Drive Power | Tom's Hardware

this article also suggests that smaller drives 1.8" and 1" should work on 500mA supply. 1" drives are probably too small, but 1.8" drives sound promising.

That's a great link. To quote it in full:

Quote:

The obligatory external power supply is pretty much a necessity for external storage based on 3.5" hard drives, because those drives have a power draw that exceeds the 2.5 W that USB 2.0 can provide (500 mA at 5 V). Compact hard drives, however, do not necessarily require such high current. Many 2.5" external products can be powered by USB; certainly, all 1.8" and 1" external hard drives can work without supplemental power.

I think 1.8" disks and enclosures are quite expensive, so buying a 'proper' iPod and the £40 cable might be cheaper!

[Huggy]

I have now set up my USB port under the center console using the extra cable described by WASHY in the 3rd post. I can confirm that it opens up all the normal functions of the IPOD, it sounds great ( I have the HIFI stereo upgrede option), and I cant think that with the road noise/ engine noise that you would benefit from the extra performance of a hard drive or other digital input. If you already have the USB in your car buy the cable for £40 and enjoy.