[543kal]

Hey all,

Its been a very long time since I posted with you guys I defected to the BMW camp for a little while but the extortionate tax bill I get from the tax man has made me look at joining the fold once again.

I'll keep it simple.

Company car - hence tax is important

Had a 210BHP JCW Works - love it to bits on a 53 plate
Then moved to a fully loaded 3.0 Z4 54 plate love it but SMG tranny ruined its fun - you still cant beat a manual :-)

Now - thinking about a JCW again but from what I can hear the new JCW is not the snorting fire breathing monster my old JCW was - shall I just get a 2nd hand last edition of the old Supercharged version?

The new JCW has much lower company car tax but being such a fan of the old JCW i dont want to waste my time and money if its nowhere naer the same!

Feedback would me most appreciated you guys have always helped me out well in the past

[Washy]

I just swapped my 55 plate 210 JCW for a new R56 S with the JCW stage one kit on and while I am still running it in I am convinced it is faster than my old car especially where it matters in the mid range......and to be honest I think the R56 is a better car than the old R53. However it has lost a bit of character and the old car is a bit nicer to look at IMHO....

[543kal]

Hi many thanks for the feedback - so many views yet hardly any replies come on team help out an ex mini fan please :-)

[kevkbuk]

Totally depends what you want!

I chose the R56 over the old Works for the following reasons:

Much better MPG.
Lower insurance.
Lower tax.
At the time I was looking late 2nd hand JCWs were just a fraction off the cost a new R56.
More comfortable ride, whilst still handling well on sports suspension.
More torque and so doesn't have to be thrashed to enjoy the performance.
Better built, though they can still rattle.


In short the R56 is the perfect hot hatch for me as I do a lot of commuting, and I chose the standard S over the prev gen JCW 210. Now I've ordered the tuning kit for my S driving will be a little bit more fun. Must admit I am getting the kit more for sound than the performance though.

Unless you thrashed it the old Words felt a bit gutless to me in everyday driving, yes it was nice to thrash around the twisties, but so is the R56.

At the end of the day you need to go drive them all, its your cash...

[Japper]

Don't get hung up on the numbers. The R56 is faster than the R53 MCS Works. Whether this is the extra torque or the slightly lower kerb weight or BMW being conservative with the power figures or less drive train losses or a combination of all.

[hoojkel]

Have to disagree here, yes the new R56 is up to 20% more fuel efficient than before but to say the older JCW S is slower and gutless compared to the newer R56 is off the mark. The old post facelift JCW S official 0-62 is 6.6, the R56 6.8, Torque is similar but the R56 probably feels quicker because it has an overboost on its turbo which pushes the torque lb/ft up although it obviously doesn't affect its time. The feel is also different, the JCW supercharged engine constantly pulls through all the gears whereas the R56 has to wait for the turbo to kick in and it is this sensation which seems like it is quicker. Don't buy either if you're worried about MPG and insurance as you will get hit quite hard by both.They are both very similar cars and to say that the new R56 is a lot faster isn't true and your also forgetting that all important difference which will have mini owners and others look differently at your mini, the John Cooper Works logo on the front and rear, along with red calipers, carbon fibre etc etc. And as Hamster once famously said, it gives one thing over other mini's, Pedigree!!!

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by hoojkel (original)

Have to disagree here, yes the new R56 is up to 20% more fuel efficient than before but to say the older JCW S is slower and gutless compared to the newer R56 is off the mark. The old post facelift JCW S official 0-62 is 6.6, the R56 6.8, Torque is similar but the R56 probably feels quicker because it has an overboost on its turbo which pushes the torque lb/ft up although it obviously doesn't affect its time. The feel is also different, the JCW supercharged engine constantly pulls through all the gears whereas the R56 has to wait for the turbo to kick in and it is this sensation which seems like it is quicker. Don't buy either if you're worried about MPG and insurance as you will get hit quite hard by both.They are both very similar cars and to say that the new R56 is a lot faster isn't true and your also forgetting that all important difference which will have mini owners and others look differently at your mini, the John Cooper Works logo on the front and rear, along with red calipers, carbon fibre etc etc. And as Hamster once famously said, it gives one thing over other mini's, Pedigree!!!

Not sure this was aimed at my post, but i didn't say it was way faster, just faster. The published 0-62 figures are realistic for the R53 but many tests are achieving / beating these times with std. R56MCS so we can only assume the addition of the Works kit will improve further on these times.

[kevkbuk]

Quote: Originally Posted by hoojkel (original)

Have to disagree here, yes the new R56 is up to 20% more fuel efficient than before but to say the older JCW S is slower and gutless compared to the newer R56 is off the mark. The old post facelift JCW S official 0-62 is 6.6, the R56 6.8, Torque is similar but the R56 probably feels quicker because it has an overboost on its turbo which pushes the torque lb/ft up although it obviously doesn't affect its time. The feel is also different, the JCW supercharged engine constantly pulls through all the gears whereas the R56 has to wait for the turbo to kick in and it is this sensation which seems like it is quicker. Don't buy either if you're worried about MPG and insurance as you will get hit quite hard by both.They are both very similar cars and to say that the new R56 is a lot faster isn't true and your also forgetting that all important difference which will have mini owners and others look differently at your mini, the John Cooper Works logo on the front and rear, along with red calipers, carbon fibre etc etc. And as Hamster once famously said, it gives one thing over other mini's, Pedigree!!!

I found the JCW 210 lacking when driving around town and starting to accelerate, maybe gutless was the wrong word to use. Admittedly my only experience with the old JCW was a few long test drives though. I had a Clio 172 at the time that responded better and pulled harder at lower revs, then I got the R56 S and that was even better. I have never experienced turbo lag in it either. Overboost only kicks in when flooring it and so is not relevant to my comments above.

The R56 can easily do 40MPG with motorway miles and it doesn't drop off that much if you include a bit of fun too. Personally I don't really care about performance figures, yes they are nice to boast about some times but the driving experience is much more important IMO. Not sure what your trying to say about the JCW badges, you can get JCW stuff for both generations. Also who cares what others think of your car?

[hoojkel]

I totally agree Japper, was more at kevkbuk who gave me the impression that you really needed to thrash the older JCW to get any decent response which isn't true. If you have an R56 with JCW kit then again there will only be marginal increases as Mini have found it harder to tweak more power out of the turbo engine as opposed to the Supercharged one, as can be seen in the BHP increases which, even with the JCW kit, don't match the 210 bhp of the old kit. However, performance wise even with less bhp, there isn't much difference.

[hoojkel]

Yeah I know you can get JCW stuff for both gen's, my point was to persuade 543kal to look at the JCW ( 1st or 2nd gen ) more than the standard S thats all and I agree that handling etc is more important. I care that my JCW looks good and people also like it for what it is, something different which all minis are.

[543kal]

Cheers all for the feedback so far great to hear some news from people in the know.

In terms of which version of Cooper S it would definately be a works that I would go for over the standard Cooper S - after having a 210BHP JCW before I feel I would sorely miss the extra grunt and gurgles and burbles from the exhaust with the seats down :-)

With regards to the new JCW my concerns are as pointed out the turbo although great on boost will loose the snappy response that the old Supercharged JCW had.....

Its a tough call my old one was one of the best cars i'd ever driven and have had some nice rides before ;-) The only other car I've had so much fun in was in a MKII Clio Williams yet again another raw car........ Is this telling me something.....I've always had this saying in my mind "Torque is cheap" if that makes any sense?

[Hobbe]

I had a Works 200 bhp, traded it in for a Z4 3.0i, tuned it, drove it, and then traded it in for a GP.
It's called evolution

The R56 Works is probably a very nice car, but the current 192 bhp is lots of money for almost nothing. Wait for the more aggressive Works to be introduced.

Personally I prefer the looks of the R53, the solid engine, and the supercharger pushing the engine beyond the revlimiter.

[femstar]

As much as it pains me to admit it when I had a standard R56 for the weekend it was quicker and more responsive around town, especailly when flooring it in 1st & 2nd, although from 3rd upwards I felt my 210 had the edge. However I have to admit the R56 was a quick car in standard form , *** the figures - cause driving both in ignorance of the stats I would never have gussed my 210 was the supposedly more powerful car. Things have moved on and the R56 really is an evolution in terms of performance even if it's proportions are lumpy and out shape IMHO, with a cheapened interior. (I can hear you R56 owners tapping away already)

[antonyc31]

I have now driven both a 210 JCSW and a new R56S and think the following

Must declare my interest though before and admit that I own the 210 older car (2006) so
might be slightly biased and have only driven the new car for two days

The R56 definately did feel faster in every day driving which suprised me given the power differential.

However I do belive that when driven in anger the 210 older car would then show its power advantage .

I have had mine for 18 months now and I still am suprised at the lack of killer urge lower down
which suprised me for a while given its got a supercharger.

I used to own a Polo G40 and that had alot more pull earlier in the rev range

But then over 4.5k its a different animal and just love it

So my view would be that just driving normally without really really trying the new car would
win in most situations.

But if the 210 driver is fully prepared and willing to thrash it then its a whole different game

Just my humble opinion

regards

Antony

[eggtruck]

i bought an r56 cooper s and traded it in after 3 months for one of the last R53s. Not a jcw but still a fantastic can - heavier on petrol and higher tax band but no regrets at all.

The R56 does feel faster but 0-60 not really that different. I just couldnt stand the ugliness of the R56 and the fact it was like driving any small hatch - it didnt feel special. I get so many complimnents about my R53 - noone bothered with the r56.

[eggtruck]

also... when driven hard the r56 sounds like a clio with a 'big phat zorst' - some people may like it but it just sounded like it was chaved up - the R53 sound is mush more special

[543kal]

cheers all :-)

Great feedback so far. My dealer told me the other day to wait until next summer for the raw version of the works - thats so longgggggggggggg away though

Cant you retrofit next summers upgrade to the new JCW - I remember doing this with my old JCW to get 210BHP wtih a new airbox, ecu and injectors a while back....

Even the dealer says the new one is a fast car but its just not raw any more.....

[R1]

Personal opinion here.

Well, I own a 56 plate JCW 210 and I love the car that much I probably will never sell it!!

I still, even after numerous test drives, can't get to like the R56!? The styling just doesn't hit the spot with me and I still get a buzz from that supercharger!! The R56 MINI just doesn't feel special any more to me. Could be any hot hatch to drive. Like the new interior though.

The one I have now will probably be my last MINI to be honest. I recently priced up a new JCW convertible (before they ditch the supercharger model) to the same spec as my JCW. Around £27,000!!! Too much on the market at that price now.

I fancy one of the new Civic type R GT's (a lot better looking than the mini mpv of the old ones!! ).
The missus is prob going to part ex her car for one and I will keep my JCW.

[Washy]

<----------Puts on flame proof suit.

I love my new R56 JCW as an everyday car it is quick fun to drive, comfortable, economical to own and for what I want right now it is perfect.

However it just does not have the sense of occasion of my old R53 JCW which had character by the bucket load especially the supercharger whine and the instant involvement from the driving experience. IMHO the new car isnt as good to look at as the old one either.....

I guess I must add this is based on two weeks with the new car verses 6 years with the old one so it may not be that balanced a view.

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Washy (original)

<----------Puts on flame proof suit.

I love my new R56 JCW as an everyday car it is quick fun to drive, comfortable, economical to own and for what I want right now it is perfect.

However it just does not have the sense of occasion of my old R53 JCW which had character by the bucket load especially the supercharger whine and the instant involvement from the driving experience. IMHO the new car isnt as good to look at as the old one either.....

I guess I must add this is based on two weeks with the new car verses 6 years with the old one so it may not be that balanced a view.

I think the R56 Styling has grown on me. When i first saw it i disliked certain points but now think ( spec dependent ) looks better than the R53. The side repeaters still have to go and the rear 'shoulders' are hidden / less noticeable on light colours.

I personally still think it drives like a MINI, just with a little bit more adjustabillity and compliancy, which is a good thing.

I do miss the SC though.

Neil, is your exhaust note continuing to get better. Mine sounded so much better this lunchtime than it did a few hundred miles ago.