MINI2

wow · Oct 28th, 2007, 09:43 PM

Hi guys,

Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost).

Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW?

At least now we know what the engine can produce!

Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt

Japper · Oct 29th, 2007, 08:34 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original)

Hi guys,

Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost).

Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW?

At least now we know what the engine can produce!

Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt

BHP is about right, but can't see MINI letting the stage 2 out with that much torque. The 308 is a heavier car so peugeot have probably needed to tweak the torque to account for this.

Japper · Oct 29th, 2007, 10:09 AM

It looks like the 207 RC has 240nm ( 20nm with overboost ) on their version of the 175ps model.

So i'd expect around 210nm ( 225nm with overboost ) on the stage 2 Works Mini.

DHA · Oct 29th, 2007, 10:13 AM

Can someone remind me what the Works kit torque is. Ta

Japper · Oct 29th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by DHA (original)

Can someone remind me what the Works kit torque is. Ta

Forget the above posts of mine, i'm having a blonde moment and the above should be ft/lbs

kevkbuk · Oct 29th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Alta are already showing what is possible with the R56 S engine, see the NAM forums for more info. If you want big big power I think you'll need to go after market. Having said that at least with JCW you shouldn't have to worry about it blowing up!

Personally I don't see the JCW model (if one even exists....) having different stats to the Challenge race car. Surely Mini would want the race car to be a show case of what the engine/package can achieve.

Tara&Paul · Nov 3rd, 2007, 09:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original)

Hi guys,

Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost).

Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW?

At least now we know what the engine can produce!

Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt

Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between the engine in the new Pug' 308 RC Z and the engine in the JCW Stage 1 tuned MCS? Because as far as I have been able to find out, both engine's, turbo's and ECU remaps etc are EXACTLY the same?

The difference in the BHP maybe down to how BMW and Peugeot actually measure the output of their engine? Possibly CHP v WHP?

As soon as I've got about 3000 miles under the bonnet, I'm taking my JCW S1 tuned MCS to 1320 Auto's to get a BHP reading.

So watch this space!

P & T.

Tonyrec · Nov 3rd, 2007, 11:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Tara&Paul (original)

As soon as I've got about 3000 miles under the bonnet, I'm taking my JCW S1 tuned MCS to 1320 Auto's to get a BHP reading.

So watch this space!

P & T.

I look forward to that

J1JPE · Nov 8th, 2007, 07:12 PM

MINI.com - Model Range - MINI John Cooper Works CHALLENGE

MINI.com - Model Range - MINI John Cooper Works CHALLENGE

http://www.mini.com/com/en/mini_jcw_...order_form.pdf

scottp7 · Dec 29th, 2007, 05:46 PM

i hope they do

Hugo · Dec 30th, 2007, 08:20 PM

This is a bit of topic but a local dealer has been bringing in Coopers and ones with special specs.
They have a Cooper with the JCW challenge decals and aerokit which looks cool plus they fully kitted Works with everything you can image on it for £29K

msh441 · Dec 31st, 2007, 09:28 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original)

Forget the above posts of mine, i'm having a blonde moment and the above should be ft/lbs

I was going to say...

Quote: Originally Posted by kevkbuk (original)

Personally I don't see the JCW model (if one even exists....) having different stats to the Challenge race car. Surely Mini would want the race car to be a show case of what the engine/package can achieve.

Not necessarily true. The MINI Challenge car was a NA Cooper for a season or two despite the existence of the S. The special edition Cooper was called the "Clubsport" package. Just like the Challenge racer, it came with the JCW intake, exhaust, suspension, special OZ Racing wheels and a full race cage. It was the MINI racecar of choice for a couple seasons, despite MINI producing a higher horsepower car.

Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original)

Could Factory JCW have 218bh and 300nm?

I'm guessing the Factory JCW puts out more like 230hp (at the crank) and 325Nm/239lbft of torque.

Here's why:

Brake horsepower (bhp) is measured at the crank, with all the accessories attached (everything but the tranny/drive train/wheels).

My R56S JCW engine kit car put out 180 whp and 204lbft of torque. Factoring driveline loss to get crank hp (between 12-14%), that comes out to be around 204-209hp at the crank (which is usually within 1-2% of bhp). So roughlt 203-208bhp. http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-j...orks-dyno.html

206 lbft. = 279Nm
221 lbft = 300Nm

So an increase of only 10-15 hp at the crank and 21Nm of torque=15 lbft (about 5-7% overall gain in both hp and torque) over the current JCW engine kit sounds a little low IMO. Particularly considering the Factory car is expected to be 2-3 times the cost of the current engine kit. Then again, BMW/MINI will probably say the engine makes 218bhp and 300Nm... but I bet it will dyno much higher.

slim_boy_fat · Dec 31st, 2007, 09:51 AM

Just to keep thinks correct, its

lbft or Nm for torque not lb/ft lb./ft ft/lb or any other combination.

Note the upper case N when using the metric definition for torque.

Cheers

Aus · Jan 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM

Some pics of the factory JCW development in progress (possibly)

More Powerful MINI JCW Performance kit Spied at Nurburgring

s33gav · Feb 6th, 2008, 12:38 PM

Morego already offer 216bhp and 235 lb/ft for the R56, and all that for £1600 - bargain.

With that much torque, it will absolutely fly.

minigolf · Feb 6th, 2008, 12:58 PM

Some new info on MotoringFile today.

MotoringFile » Archive » MF Exclusive: Factory JCW MINI In Detail

Oct 28th, 2007, 09:43 PM	#1
wow MINI2 Senior Join Date: Apr 2003 Local Time: 02:40 AM Posts: 584 Offline	Could Factory JCW have 218bh and 300nm? Hi guys, Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost). Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW? At least now we know what the engine can produce! Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt MINI, it is a way of life.

Oct 29th, 2007, 08:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Japper MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oil Country Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 1,070 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original) Hi guys, Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost). Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW? At least now we know what the engine can produce! Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt BHP is about right, but can't see MINI letting the stage 2 out with that much torque. The 308 is a heavier car so peugeot have probably needed to tweak the torque to account for this. 06 HB/W MCS Chilli

Oct 29th, 2007, 10:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Japper MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oil Country Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 1,070 Offline	It looks like the 207 RC has 240nm ( 20nm with overboost ) on their version of the 175ps model. So i'd expect around 210nm ( 225nm with overboost ) on the stage 2 Works Mini. 06 HB/W MCS Chilli

Oct 29th, 2007, 11:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
Japper MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oil Country Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 1,070 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by DHA (original) Can someone remind me what the Works kit torque is. Ta Forget the above posts of mine, i'm having a blonde moment and the above should be ft/lbs 06 HB/W MCS Chilli

Nov 8th, 2007, 07:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
J1JPE MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MANCHESTER ;} Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 1,505 Offline	you lot seen this ? MINI.com - Model Range - MINI John Cooper Works CHALLENGE MINI.com - Model Range - MINI John Cooper Works CHALLENGE http://www.mini.com/com/en/mini_jcw_...order_form.pdf

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Oct 29th, 2007, 10:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
DHA Should I JCW or not? Join Date: Jul 2005 Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 160 Offline	Can someone remind me what the Works kit torque is. Ta

Oct 29th, 2007, 11:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
kevkbuk MINI2 Senior Join Date: Sep 2006 Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 652 Offline	Alta are already showing what is possible with the R56 S engine, see the NAM forums for more info. If you want big big power I think you'll need to go after market. Having said that at least with JCW you shouldn't have to worry about it blowing up! Personally I don't see the JCW model (if one even exists....) having different stats to the Challenge race car. Surely Mini would want the race car to be a show case of what the engine/package can achieve.

Nov 3rd, 2007, 09:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tara&Paul doh! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 578 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original) Hi guys, Just read an article about the Peugeot 308RC Z. This car has the same 1,6 Turbo engine found in the cooper S but it has been tweaked to produce 218bhp (160kw) and 280nm (300nm overboost). Could this amount of power also be in the factory JCW? At least now we know what the engine can produce! Peugeot 308 RC Z Unveiled at Frankfurt Does anyone know what exactly is the difference between the engine in the new Pug' 308 RC Z and the engine in the JCW Stage 1 tuned MCS? Because as far as I have been able to find out, both engine's, turbo's and ECU remaps etc are EXACTLY the same? The difference in the BHP maybe down to how BMW and Peugeot actually measure the output of their engine? Possibly CHP v WHP? As soon as I've got about 3000 miles under the bonnet, I'm taking my JCW S1 tuned MCS to 1320 Auto's to get a BHP reading. So watch this space! P & T.

Nov 3rd, 2007, 11:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tonyrec MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Herts Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 325 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Tara&Paul (original) As soon as I've got about 3000 miles under the bonnet, I'm taking my JCW S1 tuned MCS to 1320 Auto's to get a BHP reading. So watch this space! P & T. I look forward to that

Dec 29th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
scottp7 Kernow Mini Man My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cornwall Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 168 Offline	i hope they do BMW Mini One - July 2005

Dec 30th, 2007, 08:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Hugo MINI2 Master Join Date: May 2006 Location: Over 4.5k RPM Local Time: 12:40 AM Posts: 2,961 Offline	This is a bit of topic but a local dealer has been bringing in Coopers and ones with special specs. They have a Cooper with the JCW challenge decals and aerokit which looks cool plus they fully kitted Works with everything you can image on it for £29K Last edited by Hugo : Dec 31st, 2007 at 05:01 PM.

Dec 31st, 2007, 09:28 AM	#12 (permalink)
msh441 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pacific NW Local Time: 05:40 PM Posts: 439 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original) Forget the above posts of mine, i'm having a blonde moment and the above should be ft/lbs I was going to say... Quote: Originally Posted by kevkbuk (original) Personally I don't see the JCW model (if one even exists....) having different stats to the Challenge race car. Surely Mini would want the race car to be a show case of what the engine/package can achieve. Not necessarily true. The MINI Challenge car was a NA Cooper for a season or two despite the existence of the S. The special edition Cooper was called the "Clubsport" package. Just like the Challenge racer, it came with the JCW intake, exhaust, suspension, special OZ Racing wheels and a full race cage. It was the MINI racecar of choice for a couple seasons, despite MINI producing a higher horsepower car. Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original) Could Factory JCW have 218bh and 300nm? I'm guessing the Factory JCW puts out more like 230hp (at the crank) and 325Nm/239lbft of torque. Here's why: Brake horsepower (bhp) is measured at the crank, with all the accessories attached (everything but the tranny/drive train/wheels). My R56S JCW engine kit car put out 180 whp and 204lbft of torque. Factoring driveline loss to get crank hp (between 12-14%), that comes out to be around 204-209hp at the crank (which is usually within 1-2% of bhp). So roughlt 203-208bhp. http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-j...orks-dyno.html 206 lbft. = 279Nm 221 lbft = 300Nm So an increase of only 10-15 hp at the crank and 21Nm of torque=15 lbft (about 5-7% overall gain in both hp and torque) over the current JCW engine kit sounds a little low IMO. Particularly considering the Factory car is expected to be 2-3 times the cost of the current engine kit. Then again, BMW/MINI will probably say the engine makes 218bhp and 300Nm... but I bet it will dyno much higher. Founding member of R56 Anonymous: "Hello. My name is Mike. I'm a driving enthusiast... and I still like the R56" Last edited by msh441 : Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:58 PM. Reason: edited for the grammer police

Dec 31st, 2007, 09:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
slim_boy_fat MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Glasgow Local Time: 01:40 AM Posts: 119 Offline	Just to keep thinks correct, its lbft or Nm for torque not lb/ft lb./ft ft/lb or any other combination. Note the upper case N when using the metric definition for torque. Cheers

Jan 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Aus MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norwich Local Time: 01:40 AM Posts: 37 Offline	Some pics of the factory JCW development in progress (possibly) More Powerful MINI JCW Performance kit Spied at Nurburgring

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Feb 6th, 2008, 12:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
s33gav MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2005 Local Time: 01:40 AM Posts: 131 Offline	Morego already offer 216bhp and 235 lb/ft for the R56, and all that for £1600 - bargain. With that much torque, it will absolutely fly.

Feb 6th, 2008, 12:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
minigolf Blue is the colour! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canberra, Australia Local Time: 11:40 AM Posts: 13,858 Offline	Some new info on MotoringFile today. MotoringFile » Archive » MF Exclusive: Factory JCW MINI In Detail Sabine Schmitz: Fear disturbs your concentration.

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