[Washy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Keano (original)

Like I say to spec it to the same level as my current works came out to £32K - the 135i to ~ £35K if I got a new s with a lower spec than at the mo then it would be a step back...

Having said that though I havent tried the new S only the cooper (which I thought was excellent by the way- very impressed) but in terms of cost i couldnt justify to the otherhalf spending over £30K on a mini - a BMW coupe then she is happy (sort of)

We looked at the 135i as a possible replacement for one of our cars. In the end have decided to go for a 125i convertible though.

[carboncrazy]

I can't see that it has any feelable turbo lag seeing as its a TWIN SCROLL turbo, its design as been to prevent turbo lag due to overboost on acceleration. I will try to find the TOP GEAR write up on the COOPER S and WORKS that gives precise reasons for the car having no noticable lag at-all unless you are part bionic dyno.

I think because you know that turbo's commonly have lag you are convincing yourself that there is some when truthfully theres not. And what i find funny is that whether it has lag or not it is ultimately quicker that the 1st Gen cooper s works so why would it matter??

Don't get me wrong i prefere alot of things about the SUPERCHARGED Mini, i stick up for them being a whole lot more fun than the turbo in alot of ways. ie supercharger winding, constant feeling of power. But in general the R56 is a completely refined car so even for that reason its a good step to take.

Joe

[mini5lover]

Quote: Originally Posted by carboncrazy (original)

I can't see that it has any feelable turbo lag seeing as its a TWIN SCROLL turbo, its design as been to prevent turbo lag due to overboost on acceleration. I will try to find the TOP GEAR write up on the COOPER S and WORKS that gives precise reasons for the car having no noticable lag at-all unless you are part bionic dyno.

I think because you know that turbo's commonly have lag you are convincing yourself that there is some when truthfully theres not. And what i find funny is that whether it has lag or not it is ultimately quicker that the 1st Gen cooper s works so why would it matter??

Don't get me wrong i prefere alot of things about the SUPERCHARGED Mini, i stick up for them being a whole lot more fun than the turbo in alot of ways. ie supercharger winding, constant feeling of power. But in general the R56 is a completely refined car so even for that reason its a good step to take.

Joe

Hello, first of all there is a lag, and as I had never driven a turbo before I didnt know this. Also, it is not quicker than the works, even the dealer had to admit that, so dont know where you get that from! My point was that my car is faster, more fun to drive, so whats the point of changing and paying out thousands? My dealer said I can borrow the new works for a few hours when the first one arrives, have bought three minis off him and he said I can be first, but you are wrong in your assumption that the R56 is faster than Swiper!

[jamesbeaumont]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

Hello, first of all there is a lag, and as I had never driven a turbo before I didnt know this. Also, it is not quicker than the works, even the dealer had to admit that, so dont know where you get that from! My point was that my car is faster, more fun to drive, so whats the point of changing and paying out thousands? My dealer said I can borrow the new works for a few hours when the first one arrives, have bought three minis off him and he said I can be first, but you are wrong in your assumption that the R56 is faster than Swiper!

This is really quite amusing...I dont know why you started a thread to inform us that the older works is faster than the new works? We all know it isnt and thats a fact, whether it feels faster is a different matter. Turbo lag or not the R56 is quicker by a fair margin. Mr John Cooper even said himself that his R56 works is faster than his sons GP. Thats a GP, the faster version of the works.... Argue all you like but you asked for peoples opinions and you got them. Maybe you should take this to the track, find someone with an R56 works and enjoy being beaten Anyhoo if you dont like it just wait for the stage 2 works.

[Washy]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

Hello, first of all there is a lag, and as I had never driven a turbo before I didnt know this. Also, it is not quicker than the works, even the dealer had to admit that, so dont know where you get that from! My point was that my car is faster, more fun to drive, so whats the point of changing and paying out thousands? My dealer said I can borrow the new works for a few hours when the first one arrives, have bought three minis off him and he said I can be first, but you are wrong in your assumption that the R56 is faster than Swiper!

I have had both and to be honest in a lot of ways I prefer the old car, but the new one is definately quicker....lag or no lag. I would go as far as to say a standard R56 S is as fast on the road as the the old JCW.

[mini5lover]

Ok Ok I give in! - NOT! No the replies are very informative and maybe I did not drive the new works long enough or hard enough to really judge.
I do appreciate all comments and am eagerly awaiting the factory works with all its promised improvements.
I still feel that the first works improvement was mainly cosmetic and a bit of a waste of an opportunity to draw us older works owners in, that hasnt worked has it.
If it had there wouldnt have been a need for the pretty radical changes they are planning now!

[feenaldo]

I prefer the R53 JCW purely because of the "drama" of having the supercharger whine. Then I saw Lohens R56 make the dump valve sound and thought I could get over the supercharger

The R56 JCW is a faster car when you compare standard JCW factory R53 to R56 JCW.

To throw a new spanner in the works (no pun intended ) I would say its the handling on the new JCW that lets it down. I like the JCW suspension set up on the R53 and the fact that the challenge car is running an entirely different set up is plain proof that it wasn't quite good enough.... for racing at least.

It doesn't matter how many track days you do don't forget you buy these cars mainly to drive on the road BMW don't set these cars up standard out of the factory for us to start an urban race every time we start the engine but they are a forward thinking company, and purchasing JCW means they had a lot to live up too to keep the brand going, they have however capitalized on the fact that people seem to drool all over anything with JCW written on it, but that doesn't mean it isn't any good.

[mini5lover]

I fully agree with you, why would they bring out a factory one with so many changes if the after market kit had worked? They wouldnt would they?
I have driven both and whatever people say to me Swiper is brilliant to drive in comparison to the new one. I dont know all the technical terms why but I just know a good car to drive when I drive one and Swiper is much better than the R56 works.
I cant wait to try the new one but with only a very small improvement in acceletation (Swiper is 6.8 and the new one 6.5 for 0-62mph times) I cant see me being willing to pay around £10,0000 to change him.

[tommo13]

Nobody is trying to make you change your old car "your happy with it" we get that !
It doesn't matter how much you argue and stick your head in the sand, things have moved on whether you accept it or not. A works kit R56 is quicker around a track than any other mini tested (even yours) the factory works will be even better. That's not subjective opinion or "just knowing"
it's fact, produced with cold hard lap times.

If you don't want to change, don't. I'm sure your car is great and I hope your happy with it for a long, long time. But don't try to post comments to convince us of something we know isn't true.
We can debate the subjective points of old versus new (Looks, noise, dash etc) all day with you but just deciding your car is better doesn't make it so. Your posting on a board of enthusiast's and by and large most know what they are talking about, if you take us for fools you'll just end up looking silly ?

P.s £100000 seems a lot to I'm sure you could get it cheaper ?

[Fin]

For the love of Christ!

Please find a track and have a race with Swiper, an R56 S and an R56 S JCW. Then we can close this thread and be done with the tedious 'my car is faster than yours' childish crap.

By the way, I think you will find my car is the fastest in the universe.

[tommo13]

No it's not.

[mini5lover]

Ok, around £10,000 to change. You are missing the point though, its not just track times that count here. Swiper is 6.8 secs, the gp is 6.5 and the new works is 6.5. Hellooo! There is not much difference is there? Not enough to spend £10,000 on I dont think. There are a lot of people who agree with me too, but I doubt you will listen to them either.

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by tommo13 (original)

No it's not.

Thanks tommo, you are right my car is not the fastest in the universe. There is an old Skoda on a newly discovered planet named 'Sarcasm' in the Joke galaxy. I was unaware it existed until just recently, but apparently it is faster than my car. Don't I feel foolish!?

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

Ok, around £10,000 to change. You are missing the point though, its not just track times that count here. Swiper is 6.8 secs, the gp is 6.5 and the new works is 6.5. Hellooo! There is not much difference is there? Not enough to spend £10,000 on I dont think. There are a lot of people who agree with me too, but I doubt you will listen to them either.

A track time is more relevant than the 0-60 mph time. Any fool can floor it from a standstill (albeit some better than others). But around a track a car's in-gear acceleration and handling will show its true colours. Case in point, the Corsa VXR vs the Clio 197; there is only 0.1 seconds between them in a sprint to 60 mph, but when tested by 5th Gear the Clio went around the track over a second quicker. Why? Because the chassis could deal with the power better than the Corsa's.

There is not much between a GP, R53 S, R56 S and R56 S JCW to 60 mph I agree. But fling them all around a track with the same driver and they won't all finish in the same time. This was my suggestion to you to test the statement you made that your R53 S is faster than the R56 S JCW, as how fast the car is seems to be the factor you choose in deciding on what car you have.

[tommo13]

You only need to feel foolish if you didn't see the sarcasm in my post ? I was going for the childish response !

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by tommo13 (original)

You only need to feel foolish if you didn't see the sarcasm in my post ? I was going for the childish response !

Without a smiley indicating you were being humourous I wasn't sure!

Although, I was being serious about that Skoda

[tommo13]

My apologies for the missed smiley

I believe about the Skoda, their evil is strong !

[carboncrazy]

A reason its worth more money is that when you come to sell the new model you won't get £10,000 for it. And for me the rason i would buy it is like i said the hole car has been refined.

It IS quicker.

And now looks a hole lot more agressive. Even though i still love the R53's

So whether you think its not worth an extra £10,000 or not. Alot of people do as there is a lot more than performance at stake.

Joe

[AdamFerrand]

or "stake" lol mmmmm Steak

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

Ok, around £10,000 to change. You are missing the point though, its not just track times that count here. Swiper is 6.8 secs, the gp is 6.5 and the new works is 6.5. Hellooo! There is not much difference is there? Not enough to spend £10,000 on I dont think. There are a lot of people who agree with me too, but I doubt you will listen to them either.

This has been the most ridiculous thread!! If you love your R53 JCW, THEN KEEP IT. No one on here has told you to go out and buy the new car, yet you've argued why you shouldn't do that. You start a thread, asking people what they think of the new car vs the old one. People who have OWNED both have said they feel the new one is quicker - you argue with this fact! Why ask if you are not going take peoples opinions in. You are correct, there is very little in it. The old car probably is more charismatic, the new one probably quicker in real world driving. You say it isnt worth £10000 to change - thats your opinion and really quite irrelevant - you seem to expect a car in the R56 that is light years quicker than yours - thats never going to be the case - the old one is very fast for a small 1.6litre car! The R56 JCW factory car (which i have ordered) probably wont be that much quicker either.

You buy a new car when you want to and don't bore everyone with your narrowmindedness! You are set in your ways, and every post on this thread has quite frankly just been another pointless argument. I would reccomend that if you really want to know how the new JCW drives, and compares to your car, go for a proper (ie drive the car as it is meant to be driven) test drive with an open mind!

Sorry for this rant, but i have been watching this thread since it started, and each time you post another rebuttal , i, like others who have posted, have just got more and more frustrated, and now want to speak my mind!

(Apologies also for this pointless post - i must be a hypocrit!)

[uberandreman]

ok so ima ask mini5lover to stop arguing her case so i can ask a legitamte question

why is the r53 more fun to drive then the r56 is it the rawnes of the suspension and the supercharger that do it.... sorry havnt really driven an r53 yet looking to in the very near future but would definatly apreciate the comments

and also in everyones opinion (speed aside) which mini embodies the MINI chareristics best ALL MINI's included, im asking cause ive been following the Factory Works like everyone else and im persoanlly ****ed about the suspension choice being the standerd and think they've taken away from what MINI is so if you can help me out to see what the true FUN TO DRIVE, AMAZING HANDELING, AROUND THE CORNER MINI is I'll prob look into it and wait for MINI to come out with somehting better