[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by uberandreman (original)

ok so ima ask mini5lover to stop arguing her case so i can ask a legitamte question

why is the r53 more fun to drive then the r56 is it the rawnes of the suspension and the supercharger that do it.... sorry havnt really driven an r53 yet looking to in the very near future but would definatly apreciate the comments.

Asking such a question is only going to lead to more arguments

Drive both Generations and decide which you like best.

[uberandreman]

Well thats the plan for this weekend I just wanted to here other ppl opinions to keep in mind before I go

[carboncrazy]

Ok so if someone here can't ask a question incase an arguement is caused this thread may aswell be closed.

UBERANDREMAN Asked a valid question why not answer him and just deal with it if people don't like the question/answer.

UBERANDREMAN: In my opinion the,

R53 has a slightly more enjoyable drive (Depending on what type of ride you like) due to the constant power of the SUPERCHARGER which makes it feel like a SUPER GO-CART and rugged suspension making you feel all aspects of its handling, but can get tedious after a while due to the tough suspention and rough gear changes.

R56 is a more refined (Depending on what type of ride you like) due to its softer suspension and "Lag-less" turbo making fast road driving enjoyable and can be driven every day with not much effort at-all.

It depends if you want a real exhilerating ride if so go with the R53 if you want something not far off but a little more "refined" with all new technology go with the R56.

What you also have to consider is that the R53 in a few years will be worth only 10,000 -13,000 due to being the old model.

Wheras.......... the R56 will be not far off its original price.

Burn me if you wish but thats more or less the differences that most people take in to consideration.

Joe

[mini5lover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rogan200 (original)

This has been the most ridiculous thread!! If you love your R53 JCW, THEN KEEP IT. No one on here has told you to go out and buy the new car, yet you've argued why you shouldn't do that. You start a thread, asking people what they think of the new car vs the old one. People who have OWNED both have said they feel the new one is quicker - you argue with this fact! Why ask if you are not going take peoples opinions in. You are correct, there is very little in it. The old car probably is more charismatic, the new one probably quicker in real world driving. You say it isnt worth £10000 to change - thats your opinion and really quite irrelevant - you seem to expect a car in the R56 that is light years quicker than yours - thats never going to be the case - the old one is very fast for a small 1.6litre car! The R56 JCW factory car (which i have ordered) probably wont be that much quicker either.

You buy a new car when you want to and don't bore everyone with your narrowmindedness! You are set in your ways, and every post on this thread has quite frankly just been another pointless argument. I would reccomend that if you really want to know how the new JCW drives, and compares to your car, go for a proper (ie drive the car as it is meant to be driven) test drive with an open mind!

Sorry for this rant, but i have been watching this thread since it started, and each time you post another rebuttal , i, like others who have posted, have just got more and more frustrated, and now want to speak my mind!

(Apologies also for this pointless post - i must be a hypocrit!)

Well thats your opinion then, but you like a lot of others are missing the point again and again. Mini is not selling well at the moment, look at the figures. I want a new mini but cant see enough car for my money, how difficult is that to understand. Also the people who have agreed with me through this thread have just been ignored, you are obviously going to praise the new one, you wouldnt if you drove Swiper.

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

Well thats your opinion then, but you like a lot of others are missing the point again and again. Mini is not selling well at the moment, look at the figures. I want a new mini but cant see enough car for my money, how difficult is that to understand. Also the people who have agreed with me through this thread have just been ignored, you are obviously going to praise the new one, you wouldnt if you drove Swiper.

1) I believe Mini have just had an all time high month in March - not selling well!
2) I am not praising the new car particularly - i am saying both are good, and my post was meant to comment purely on how pointless your thread had become because of your persistent arguing - you asked a reasonable question, and then shot down everyone who did not agree with your pre determined point of view. I personally don't have a view either way, so please dont try and argue with me! I am buying a new gen mini purely as i want a new car and the experience of ordering one - thats my choice and youve made yours which obviously suits you, and i have no problem with that!

Anyway, i do not want to argue, THAT IS NOT WHAT THESE FORUMS ARE FOR.

[carboncrazy]

NO I THINK YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. YOU MAY THINK YOUR CAR IS QUICKER (EVEN THOUGH ITS NOT) BUT YOUR CAR IS WORTH £12,000 IF THAT AS MOST WILL BUY THE NEW MODEL. IF YOU BUY THE NEW ONE AND HAVE IT FOR 2 YEARS IT WILL BE WORTH A LITTLE LESS THAN WHAT YOU BOUGHT IT FOR, WHEREAS YOURS WILL BE WORTH £9,000 THATS WHY PEOPLE TRADE CARS IN BEFORE THEY BECOME WORTHLESS.

ALSO MY FRIEND ZAC HAS A STAGE 2 R53 COOPER S JCW AT AROUND 240BHP WHICH IS MOST DEFFINETLY FASTER THAN "SWIPER" AND EVEN HE ADMITS THAT HIS DADS R56 COOPER S JCW FEELS A HOLE LOT NICER TO DRIVE, FEELS NEAR ON AS FAST AND OVER ALL IS BETTER. HE EVEN SAID THAT HE MAY TRADE HIS IN FOR ONE WHEN THE FACTORY ONE BECOMES AVAILABLE.

I SUGGEST YOU STOP ARGUEING AS AT THE END OF THE DAY THE R56 WILL ALWAYS PROVAIL AS THE NEW ONE ALWAYS DOES AND ALWAYS WILL, JUST A FACT OF LIFE.

SORRY FOR ALL THE UPPER CASE LETTERS I THOUGHT IT WAS EASIER TO TAKE IN THIS WAY.

Joe

[mini5lover]

I officially close this thread as we are not getting anywhere, as I said at the beginning I went in to buy a new car but could not see any improvement to what I already had and I still say the same.

I eagerly await my drive of the new works s and if I change my mind I will buy one. Money is no object and neither is the value of the car.

A car is worth what it is to you and shouldnt be bought just to make you some money when you sell it.

[ViscountCharles]

Quote: Originally Posted by uberandreman (original)

and also in everyones opinion (speed aside) which mini embodies the MINI chareristics best ALL MINI's included,

Easy. The 1275 Cooper S from the mid-late 60's. I had a fuel-injected Cooper 35 in the late 90's that had lots of engine and suspension work done to it (about £5k on top of the price of the car), and that was pretty special too. the R53 and R56 are both better cars, no doubt about it, but neither are really anything more than very pale imitations of the real thing when it comes to characteristics like handling and nippyness.

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViscountCharles (original)

Easy. The 1275 Cooper S from the mid-late 60's. I had a fuel-injected Cooper 35 in the late 90's that had lots of engine and suspension work done to it (about £5k on top of the price of the car), and that was pretty special too. the R53 and R56 are both better cars, no doubt about it, but neither are really anything more than very pale imitations of the real thing when it comes to characteristics like handling and nippyness.

Completely agree. I have an early 80's Mini that has been rebuild from the ground up, with totally reworked and properly aligned/set up suspension. It has been bored out to 1380cc and has about 120bhp (weighs about half a new mini), and is an incredible handling and very quick little car - endless fun. In a different league in terms of "nippyness" compared to the new cars dua to being genuinely small and light.
Still cant wait to get an R56 JCW though - new cars just make performance motoring so much easier and trouble free (touch wood) and certainly leagues more comfortable.

[ViscountCharles]

Absolutely. The two things I noticed most in going from a properly sorted 1298cc Mini to a 1.6 supercharged MINI was the way I could drive 200 miles at 70mph while actually holding a conversation and still be able to walk upright straight after getting out of the car - the comfort levels of the MINI are leagues better than the old Mini.

And as for reliability, I'm sure that my last one was partly responsible for the demise of Rover, as it had vastly more work done on it under warranty than the car was worth IMO. Three gearboxes and a huge amount of welding front and back to cure some really severe rust problems. And 6 years after buying it brand-new, it was rotten in so many places (whereas my 6-year old MCS has no rust visible on the bodywork anywhere). And let's not forget its habit of blowing an alternator every six months, regular as clockwork. As booking it into the mechanics for a new alternator usually took a week or so, my neighbours were regularly treated to the sight of me pushing the car down the road, jumping in and turning the engine over each time the battery went flat.

Happy days. I really miss the way it handled, and left everything for dead at the lights (up to about 30mph, it was only stuff like Caterhams that could hang with the old dear). But I really don't miss finishing every journey with a bad back and deaf in both ears (straight-cut 'box - the car could be heard coming for miles).

[fbirch]

I had an '04 MCS and now I have an '08 MCS, so I offer this perspective after having extensive wheel time in both cars. While there is some truth to the statements that the R53 had bit more "rawness" than the R56, the difference between them in this regard is very small. IMO, it would be splitting hairs to portray one as being a lot better or worse than the other on that basis. In terms of overall performance, there is a noticeabale improvement in the new car. With equal time spent dialing in the suspension of both cars, the R56 would be faster around most tracks. But having said this, the R53 was/is a great car, and there is no reason for us Mini brethren to go around bashing one anothers' cars.

[mini5lover]

Thanks for that, I never intended this to be an R56 bashing, it just developed that way. I wanted to see if I felt the new car was faster, and when I drove it I was not impressed. Some people cant forgive me for that and say I am bashing the new one, I am not. My dealer is promising me a drive when the factory fit comes out and I cant wait.
My point was that I have a really quick car and wanted to see what I was getting for the £10,000 or so it would cost me to change, and I could not see a lot really (apart from a new car obviously).
If people took this the wrong way it was their fault and told me track times etc which I was not interested in, the difference is minimal. It just seemed less fun and less "minified" to me, more like a golf, it seemed to have lost the go-kart feel a bit.

[carboncrazy]

Quote: Originally Posted by mini5lover (original)

It just seemed less fun and less "minified" to me, more like a golf, it seemed to have lost the go-kart feel a bit.

Now "that" i do agree with. Its now more "refined" but less agressive.

Joe

[Washy]

I was just saying in another thread that if I had the dosh I would have one of each....an R56 for the weekday commute and an R53 for some weekend sillyness...

[carboncrazy]

I would have to agree.

For everyday driving and effortless speed R56 all the way.

But for pure adrenaline rush i would have an R53 as they are more like a go cart (Original Mini).

Joe

[ViscountCharles]

Nuts. If you want *real* go-kart-like handling and adrenalin rushes, buy an *original* 1960s Cooper S (or as I did, have a 1990's Rover Mini tweaked to the point where it was just as good as the original).

Of course, they can be uncomfortable and unreliable little sods, and I'd much rather own a modern MINI (whether it's the R53 or the R56, there's little to choose between them).

[carboncrazy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViscountCharles (original)

Nuts. If you want *real* go-kart-like handling and adrenalin rushes, buy an *original* 1960s Cooper S (or as I did, have a 1990's Rover Mini tweaked to the point where it was just as good as the original).

The difference is about 4 seconds less to sixty though. I have the latest version (2000) of the old style MINI and as cool as it is to drive, its slow and pretty much every 17 Yr old in a saxo VTR can beat me at the lights and its been bored out to a 1.4.

in cars speed is a main factor that people go for, thats why the old MINI seems to be dying out for the younger generation, that and the fact that the latest versions are selling for up to 10,000.

Joe

[ViscountCharles]

I'm surprised that you lose out at the lights - mine was blisteringly quick to *30* - only genuinely fast cars like Porsches and Caterhams could do it faster. By *40*, however, those Saxos were screaming past - but then, on most urban journeys getting to 30 was more important to me than getting to 40. That was something I *really* noticed when I got my R52MCS - it was so slow off the line initially - much slower than my Cooper 35. Though it would pull and pull, and would hit 70 MUCH faster (which is great for joining dual carriageways and motorways).

Time-wise, my Cooper 35 was hitting 60 in 9 seconds, so was only two seconds slower than the MCS - though it felt faster because my bum was closer to the ground

The other big difference is that I've never had to push-start my MINI - and no matter what engine/gearbox setup you had in an old Mini, if it blew an alternator as regularly as mine, you got to do a lot of push-starting.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by carboncrazy (original)

Ok so if someone here can't ask a question incase an arguement is caused this thread may aswell be closed.

Absolutely, 100%. It's very refreshing to see something controversial discussed and some genuinely felt feelings expressed. Now, I've just got to set the time aside to read the entire thread from one end to the other!

Tigger.

[wiggis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

A track time is more relevant than the 0-60 mph time. Any fool can floor it from a standstill (albeit some better than others). But around a track a car's in-gear acceleration and handling will show its true colours. Case in point, the Corsa VXR vs the Clio 197; there is only 0.1 seconds between them in a sprint to 60 mph, but when tested by 5th Gear the Clio went around the track over a second quicker. Why? Because the chassis could deal with the power better than the Corsa's.

But perhaps more relevant to very nearly everyone who actually owns any one of these cars and who never goes near a track, is the time difference one of those cars would yield on a typical drive from your house to Tesco's, or from your office to your house ...... I can see it now "My R53 GP got me to the isle with Muller Light a full second quicker than Swiper", and "The R56 JCW got me to the Parent With Child parking space a full 1.5 seconds faster than the R53 JCW"

Basically, once a car can healthily keep up with traffic and safely overtake the red Rover 214i doing 40 mph on the A road between your office and your house (which all of the cars in this thread can do very easily), then frankly, the rest is about as relevant as comparing the size of your genitalia.