[minicabrio]

Quote: Originally Posted by matt21 (original)

just been to sytner's in leicester.

according to them (and i dont believe it all) :

car will be launched in June available for customers July
will be around £23-£24k (thought it was £20.5k)
bodykit will be standard
will be chilli pack MCS spec
order board officially open march 20th

she did confess they had been told very little as of yet with full details out in may

You'd better tell them to have a read of the news section on MINI2

Unless MINI have seen public reaction and decided they'd be daft to launch it without the aero kit

[rogan200]

I have a blind deposit down on the JCW hatchback, and from what Mini UK have told me, they are waiting for the chaps in Germany to decide on the final UK spec. It seems as though the UK cars are being seriously considered for fitment of the JCW aerokit as standard, or at least as a factory and not dealer fit option.. I expect to know this for sure within the next couple of weeks. As for other JCW trick bits, it is highly unlikely that any will be included in the price.

It would be great if on the John Cooper Works mini, JCW parts would all be factory fit options. This could potentially halve the price of items like the £2000 recaro seats. Anyway, BMW certainly isnt going to be this kind to us customers!!

[DHA]

Thanks for that info rogan200. I too have a deposit down but the dealer knows nothing. Whilst I am sure it will be a great car I am currently having second thoughts and looking elsewhere.......

[ViscountCharles]

I'm off to place a deposit today (I'd dithered about buying a Cooper D instead, but my old MCS is so much more fun I know I'd not be happy with a D. And why buy another S when I could have a JCW instead?).

My dealer is similarly in the dark about what the final spec for the JCW will be; I gather that we'll get the hi-fi, anthracite headlining and aircon as standard in addition to the engine and brake mods, but that suspension and interior changes will all be upgrades. I know that I'll want the alcantara wheel, and would cheerfully take the JCW Recaros so long as nobody expects me to pay 2 grand for them! I'm already a little bit battered from having decided on teh satnav (that's not worth anything like the cost, either, but I'll pay to get rid of the nasty stereo controls in the speedo).

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by DHA (original)

Thanks for that info rogan200. I too have a deposit down but the dealer knows nothing. Whilst I am sure it will be a great car I am currently having second thoughts and looking elsewhere.......

I too am having slight second thoughts, but having looked at the alternatives (civic type r, magane f1, golf gti) I have decided that while these are al great cars, and better value for money in terms of spec, i want to try the mini. I hope it will be a great car. Perhaps it could handle more power still, but with all that torque it certainly wont be slow in day to day driving.

I have long been a classic mini man, so want to experience owning a new mini, and with the way they are holding their money at the moment, i could buy something else if i dont like it. With the other cars ive mentioned above, you can loose u to 30% of their cost driving out of the showroom, which im certainly not keen on!

Anyway, as son as i know more ill post on here - I don't know what your dealer is like in keeping you informed, but i think mine has realised im a bit eager for details, and is being very good at tracking down snipets information and letting me know.

[johnmichael]

I too am anxious to get hold of the detailed spec of the Factory JCW car. I need to change my current car soon as the mileage is climbing fast! The reason for the delay is hopefully nothing sinister like reliability. Lets hope it is only down to wrangling with the dealers as to what will be dealer fit options and what will be factory options. The dealers will want dealer options so that they can retain (and re-use) the replaced parts whilst making a margin on supplying and fitting the JCW parts. In any event please can MINI confirm the spec asap with firm delivery dates. Despite being a confirmed fan of the MCS since first getting one in June 2002 I have had second thoughts about a 135i or an Audi TT ad an alternative.

[DHA]

Quote: Originally Posted by rogan200 (original)

I too am having slight second thoughts, but having looked at the alternatives (civic type r, magane f1, golf gti) I have decided that while these are al great cars, and better value for money in terms of spec, i want to try the mini. I hope it will be a great car. Perhaps it could handle more power still, but with all that torque it certainly wont be slow in day to day driving.

I have long been a classic mini man, so want to experience owning a new mini, and with the way they are holding their money at the moment, i could buy something else if i dont like it. With the other cars ive mentioned above, you can loose u to 30% of their cost driving out of the showroom, which im certainly not keen on!

Anyway, as son as i know more ill post on here - I don't know what your dealer is like in keeping you informed, but i think mine has realised im a bit eager for details, and is being very good at tracking down snipets information and letting me know.

I currently have the Golf GTI and have looked at the Japanese market Civic Type R, a much better version than the one in the UK.

[ViscountCharles]

I was a June '02 MCS driver too. And however alarmingly your mileage is climbing, I promise that mine has climbed higher - I'm still driving my original MCS every day! Still, at least this time around the wait is only going to be 3 or 4 months - last time around, most of us who got cars in the first week or so had put money down at least 6 months before; my deposit was with the dealers a few weeks after the R50's launch, before the MCS had been announced and the best part of a year before delivery, and I know that I wasn't the first one.

I suspect that the reason for the spec being as-yet unfinalised is no more than they haven't finalised it yet (if I remember right, those launch '02 Cooper S's weren't properly specced up until April '02). Reliability-wise, I think that we will all be disappointed if they haven't nailed the cold-start rattle (especially as they're dropping a modified engine into the JCW cars, rather than going the "lazy" route of a factory-fitted JCW tuning kit). I'll bet that the final spec will still leave a lot of room for the usual factory and dealer-fit options like sat-nav and JCW trim bits.

Delivery dates are (I believe) July for the first of the hatch versions, and August for the Clubman (is the plural "Clubmen"?). I think that I can wiat that long (but only because I don't have a lot of choice in the matter).

[ViscountCharles]

Oh yeah - value-wise AND performance-wise, I daresay that you'd be better off with a Clio Cup F1, or an imported Civic Type R, or a number of other cars. But none of them are a MINI. As someone who's driven Minis and MINIs for the last 15 years, there are a number of good reasons why I'm sticking with the brand, and GPM is the main one (Grins Per Mile).

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViscountCharles (original)

Oh yeah - value-wise AND performance-wise, I daresay that you'd be better off with a Clio Cup F1, or an imported Civic Type R, or a number of other cars. But none of them are a MINI. As someone who's driven Minis and MINIs for the last 15 years, there are a number of good reasons why I'm sticking with the brand, and GPM is the main one (Grins Per Mile).

Before the JCW mini was announced, I was all set to buy a Cliosport 197 with the cup chassis. It is a brilliant handling car, perhaps better than a MCS, but the biggest disappointment, was that it was quite slow (obviously speaking relatively) in normal driving situations. There is not enough low down torque for such a bulky little car, so you had to keep it in the upper rev bind. While this was extremely fun on empty roads, it is not really suitable for me, as I am trying to leave behind manic cars (having driven heavily tuned classic minis (as daily drives i might add!) for years). The mini with considerably more torque, from all the way down at 1500 rpm, hopefully will be a much faster and more useable car in normal driving, and with the fast revving engine, and quite a lot of power, still enormously fun when on that stretch of empty winding road!
At least thats what im hoping!

[ViscountCharles]

I was looking at a Megane 225 F1. But it was French, and quite plastic. Or my other alternative was a Mini Cooper D - but after test-driving it for a day then jumping back into my old MCS, I knew that I'd never be happy with the D. Of course, there's little point in buying *just* another MCS if I can have a JCW instead.

Now, does anyone now if the JCW will have a limited slip diff as standard, as an option, or do the "powers that be" consider that an "Electronic Differential Lock" is as good? And if so, is it, really?

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViscountCharles (original)

Now, does anyone now if the JCW will have a limited slip diff as standard, as an option, or do the "powers that be" consider that an "Electronic Differential Lock" is as good? And if so, is it, really?

From what i understand, the new DTC available for the first time on this car is able to mimic the function of an LSD (its a technology borrowed from Mercedes and converted for front wheel drive use). The car is fitted with an open differential, and not an LSD. The DTC system does the work as follows: It has 3 modes,
1. Is as per standard traction control,
2. allows a bit more slip, and
3. is DTC off. In this mode, traction and stability control are disengaged, but the system will act like a conventional LSD. This is the Electronic Differential Lock (which is actually a traction control technology, and surprisingly has nothing to do with the gearbox differential). It will brake the faster spinning wheel in a corner, and apparently can replicate a 50% locking LSD. Considering the LSD optional on the cooper s is 30% locking, it may be a very effective system indeed. According to an article in evo magazine, the JCW product manager suggests this system will even allow controlled oversteer, so it is obviously hughely helping the car turn in at speed.

Is it as good as an LSD?
I've never driven such a system, but i guess if it works as intented it just might be, because firstly, the difference in slip between the two wheels while cornering (up to the 50% locking equivalent of an LSD) is continuasly variable for maximum grip and performance. With a mechanical LSD this ratio is fixed, so may not be ideal all of the time. (unless talking of a torsen or ATB LSD which is not offered on the mini, but thats a whole other topic)

Hope I'm correct in what i'm saying and that this is helpful. If anything I have said is wrong please post corrections.

[ViscountCharles]

I *think* you are. Although I'd read elsewhere that (at least one implementation of this DTC stuff) was effective only BELOW 25mph - or "not when screaming round the track", in other words - due to the stresses that it places on the braking system.

I suspect that we'll only find out once the car has been released to motoring journalists to thrash.

[rogan200]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViscountCharles (original)

I *think* you are. Although I'd read elsewhere that (at least one implementation of this DTC stuff) was effective only BELOW 25mph - or "not when screaming round the track", in other words - due to the stresses that it places on the braking system.

I suspect that we'll only find out once the car has been released to motoring journalists to thrash.

Yeah suppose one big worry with such a system is that the constant use of the brakes to control wheel spin in the corners will put so much heat into them that they will be mushy when braking in a straight line into corners. Especially since mini brakes have a history of being underwhelming anyway. But, as you say we'll only find out when the journos are let loose. I suppose these worries are part and parcel of putting money down on a very unknown car!

[uberandreman]

Which is probably the reason for the new Super Sized brakes on the JCW

well I hurd the DTC their using on the mini is a the same as the 135i ( adapted for front wheel drive of course) so if anyone has heard anything about how that system works it should be very simaler

[rogan200]

I've been reading on an american forum that they are still going to offer the mechanical LSD as an option as it is with the MCS. I don't know if this is believable, or even possible in combination with the e-diff system. However, a lot of 135i owners seem to be fitting LSD's as well as the ediff so maybe this is a possibiity. Hopefully we'll no for sure soon, but it could be yet another option for the car - this is going to be one very expensive mini for me i think!

[uberandreman]

What would be the benefit of having a mechanical LSD in combination with the DTC, and out of curiosity what is everyone looking to spec on the factory JCW cause personally I see it speced fine outa the box aside from the aero kit and the suspension, which ill prob get at a later date.

[rogan200]

I was planning on speccing the following: I may have to cut back on things because it is getting very expensive:

- Metallic Paint (would get chilli red, but i think that will be a very common colour as it looks so good!)
- Tinted rear windows
- Visibility Pack
- Bi-Xenon Headlights (most MCS seem to have it - i think its a wise option in terms of resale)
- Automatic aircon (should not be too expensive to upgrade with manual aircon as standard)
- On Board Computer (trip meter thing)

Dealer Fit
- I Pod connector
- JCW Aero
- JCW Suspension (possibility but standard sports may be fine - i have arranged a test drive in a car with the JCW suspension, so willjudge then)
JCW Front Strut Brace
- Carbon/Leather Gear Knob and Handbrake Grip
- Carbon Dashboard
The carbon bits i will probably buy from chris @ derek woodman and fit myself as its much cheaper than my dealer. I may also buy the recaro JCW sports seats from him at a later date.

This is quite a high spec, but the first list i made had much mre on it - this is the problem with so called premium brand cars - everything is an extra!

-

[uberandreman]

Thats an amazing car spec... if I could afford that spec though I would prob be going with the 135 i lolol

but yea i was at the NY car show this weekend and I was peeking inside the clubman JCW ( the cooper they showed their was a fully loaded MCS JCW stage ) and they wouldnt let you inside but the shifter I believe looked dif and exhaust was definatly not the one in the JCW tuning kit DEF alot bigger.... dont know if anyone reported any of this yet if yes srry

Also I really hope they put a shorter/ sportier shifter in the JCW as i think the MCS shifter is way to long and clumsy for a performance cars if they dont does anyone have a preferance in aftermarket shifters???

[ViscountCharles]

My spec would have to include almost everything on the current S Chili pack, auto-aircon, sat nav (yes, I hate the stereo controls so much sat nav becomes an expensive "must have"), PDC, anthracite roof, hi fi speakers, universal remote and an alcantara wheel.