[wow]

Good Afternoon fellow MINI junkies,

Background
=========
I have an 07 MINI Cooper S on order for delivery in April 07. I currently have a 05 Copper S and before that I had a Velvet Red 02 Cooper.

I am excited about the new MINI but I am really concerned about the poor performance of the new MINI S engine. It only produces 128kw which by current industry standards is low for a sports hatchback. {Torque will be ignored for this post} The current norm is for a sports hatchback to produce around 150kw. Cars such as: Renault Megane Sport 165kw, Seat 147kw, Golf V Gti 147kw, Renault Clio 145kw and Civc type R 150kw.

Now with the new MINI only prducing 128kw only 3kw extra over current engine, means we will be smashed by the above mentioned cars and annihilated by the elite hatchbacks. The elite hatchacks are your BMW 130i 195kw, S3 195kw, Alfa 147GTA 185kw and R32 185kw.

Does this mean we need to wait for the JCW version? If so does anyone know how much power it will produce and when it will be released? Then I can cancel my current order.

When the 02 MINI COOPER S was launched it was one of the most powerful hatchbacks in comparison to its peers, such as Honda Vtec 110kw, Golf 4 Gti 110kw and Alfa 145 108kw.

Does anyone agree with my thoughts or am I just too power hungry?

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

I think you may have answered your own question; if your highest priority is outright power to compete against others, then you are probably looking at the wrong car. Personally, I'd look at the maximum kw/bhp as only one very small part of the buying equation.

It's probably pretty frustrating for engine designers trying to design an engine to meet all the emmission and noise regs and give it really nice power characteristcs when they know that all many customers may be looking for is maximum kw/bhp. It's probably a lot better to completely ignore the kw/bhp figure and drive the cars you fancy and see which you prefer driving.

Tigger.

[JDinho]

The new MCS will not be the quickest model. It will be quick, but not rapid.

If you are comparing the range to other models think of the MCS as Mini's equivalent of Seat's FR range and the JCW to Seat's Cupra models (new Cupra Leon due 2008 with 240bhp).

In short if you want to drive the fastest Mini, you'll have to wait for the JCW model. Although the S would be a fine stopgap

[thrud]

I guess I was also expecting a bit more of a bhp hike from the old model, at least 180bhp. However, there's more to performance than pure bhp figures. And the new engines sound like a big improvement overall technically.

Paul

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by wow;2625601 (Root Ginger's comments in Bold)

Good Afternoon fellow MINI junkies,

Background
=========
I have an 07 MINI Cooper S on order for delivery in April 07. I currently have a 05 Copper S and before that I had a Velvet Red 02 Cooper.

I am excited about the new MINI but I am really concerned about the poor performance of the new MINI S engine. It only produces 128kw which by current industry standards is low for a sports hatchback. {Torque will be ignored for this post} The current norm is for a sports hatchback to produce around 150kw. Cars such as: Renault Megane Sport 165kw, Seat 147kw, Golf V Gti 147kw, Renault Clio 145kw and Civc type R 150kw.

All these cars are in the JCW class and not the MCS class really

Now with the new MINI only prducing 128kw only 3kw extra over current engine, means we will be smashed by the above mentioned cars and annihilated by the elite hatchbacks. The elite hatchacks are your BMW 130i 195kw, S3 195kw, Alfa 147GTA 185kw and R32 185kw.

The MINI only has a 1.6 how do you expect it to match cars with 3.2litre engines???

Does this mean we need to wait for the JCW version? If so does anyone know how much power it will produce and when it will be released? Then I can cancel my current order.

No details as yet but I have my name down for one!

When the 02 MINI COOPER S was launched it was one of the most powerful hatchbacks in comparison to its peers, such as Honda Vtec 110kw, Golf 4 Gti 110kw and Alfa 145 108kw.

Not true. In 2002 the Civic Type R had 147KW as did the MKIV Golf VR6

Does anyone agree with my thoughts or am I just too power hungry?

[wow]

S will be a fine stop indeed.

[frd]

Power isn't everything anyway... Lotus Elise only has like 141kw and look at the figures!

I'd rather have a well balanced, well behaved, fun car than a rocket like the Astra VXR/OPC that bites more that it can chew.

[wow]

Hi Root,

Then what does the mini really compare to?
As a potential buyer of a new sports hatch I would like a vehicle that has enough oomph to challenge other hot hatches of this world.

To be blunt, the toss up at the moment for me is between a Golf V GTi or 07 MINI Cooper S. What is a man to do?

Frd, you mention a valid point!

[thrud]

I was also trying to decide between Golf GTI and Cooper S, but chose the S in the end. The latest Golf is an improvement on past versions but still looks too ordinary for me. The Mini design still looks fresh after 5 years of production, in my opinion.

[Olly.]

If you are really power hungry then maybe the S won't be enough for you. The S is only 0.1 seconds slower 0-60 than the GTI.

Although the MINI doesn't have the same high power stats the performance figures are very competitive with all the cars you mentioned. The main reason the golf needs that level of power is because its so much heavier than the MINI

[Goonery]

And the new car is lighter so PtWR will be better

[Paul]

And the new engine is very nice, I can't wait to get another shot behind the wheel! Not long now really either.

[wow]

I have made up my mind then.
I will get the new MINI S and then see what the JCW will be like and get that in 08!!!

[Paul]

An excellent choice sir.

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by wow (original)

Hi Root,

Then what does the mini really compare to?
As a potential buyer of a new sports hatch I would like a vehicle that has enough oomph to challenge other hot hatches of this world.

To be blunt, the toss up at the moment for me is between a Golf V GTi or 07 MINI Cooper S. What is a man to do?

Frd, you mention a valid point!

I rate the Cooper S as a very warm hatch. S Works is the hot hatch. For JCW read Type R. A Cooper S is a Type S.

As has been said though there is far more to it than BHP. In fact, although BHP gets quoted all the time, it isn't all though important. BHP per Ton is important. Torque is very important especially torque at low revs and consistant torque figures. Handling is very important. The MINI will beat a lot of cars with far more power because of the handling.

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

And the new engine is very nice, I can't wait to get another shot behind the wheel! Not long now really either.

Another shot behind the wheel. Some of us would like our first

[JDinho]

Quote: Originally Posted by Root Ginger (original)

I rate the Cooper S as a very warm hatch. S Works is the hot hatch. For JCW read Type R. A Cooper S is a Type S.

...Much better than my Seat likenings

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by JDinho (original)

...Much better than my Seat likenings

Just the same really but as I know naff all about Seats I thought I'd choose something I do know a little about

[Bhozar]

Golf GTi, bleh. My old Seat Ibiza Diesel would quicker through the gears and at high speed than one of those. Granted, it had 180bhp, but its not really that quick. MCS is a totaly different style of car. Its a lot more fun than the GTi. Even a plain Cooper is more fun than a Golf GTi.

Its not all about 0-60 speeds. Remember, on a roundabout you will beat an Audi TT or a Golf, any Golf, in a standard Cooper, let alone a MCS.

[mister.t]

Id like to be in a race around a track in a MCS 08 JCW and a Golf R32. The R32 has about 250 bhp and 4wd, but the Mini is a fair bit lighter, and not that it matters whilst racing, but the Mini is a damnsite better looking.