[caesar]

The above topic arose in the thread titled "Sorely Tempted" but was out of context with the main thread.

As it drew a number of interesting replies, someone suggested it became a separate thread so here it is

Unfortunately I don't have the expertise at present to be able drag/drop the salient points to this thread...but I am hoping that someone may be able to help. If not then I might be able to improvise. In the meantime I shall wait

[Fin]

LOL

What an excellent suggestion for a thread.



Generally I don't use downshifting to slow my MINI down when approaching a junction/roundabout etc. I ease off the accelerator and leave it in the gear that it was in until I near the junction and heel-toe to match engine speed to wheel speed for a nice smooooooooooth procedure.

Goin' down hills I pick an appropriate gear to allow the engine to exert a braking force.

But I don't think downshifting and using engine braking in that way, putting the transmission through undue stress is a good idea. In general.

[Restyle]

As I intimated in the other Thread ...

It was my Driving instructor who instilled in me to try and use Engine Braking over Pedal Braking as much as possible.
The main benefit, to my knowledge, being a safer technique as it minimises the chances of any skidding arising from Brake lock up.
Now whether this is still as relevant in these days of ABS I`m not sure, but I believe that especially in Icy Conditions, Engine Braking still pays Dividends.

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Restyle (original)

As I intimated in the other Thread ...

It was my Driving instructor who instilled in me to try and use Engine Braking over Pedal Braking as much as possible.
The main benefit, to my knowledge, being a safer technique as it minimises the chances of any skidding arising from Brake lock up.
Now whether this is still as relevant in these days of ABS I`m not sure, but I believe that especially in Icy Conditions, Engine Braking still pays Dividends.

Oh definitely. Any situation where the chances of losing traction are higher, such as icy/snow. Then again whenever those conditions exist I rarely change past 2nd or 3rd anyway

We need to detail mileage too.

The FINI has about 25000 miles, same clutch as it left the factory.

[Restyle]

I only do around 6000 miles year, & the last time I changed a Clutch it was on an old Austin 1300
Isn`t more wear actually put on the Clutch during normal changes than on Engine Braking

[djtex]

I have used a mixture of foot braking anegine braking, my 05 Cooper has done 42,000 miles and the clutch is still fine.

[the-ruff-puppy]

CVT's the easiest, whenever extra braking is required knock it into SD

[SimonSJR]

Quote: Originally Posted by Restyle (original)

The main benefit, to my knowledge, being a safer technique as it minimises the chances of any skidding arising from Brake lock up.

Although this is true the risk of a lock up and skidding is skill there if one changes down into say 2nd at a high speed at the wheels simply cannot turn fast enough , only to be restored by changing back up a gear or two.

I havent experianced this but when I did an advance driving course with ex police this was talked about in quite some depth.

I am only 17 but drive a new r56 cooper so I felt it important for me to learn more about how to save the car in a skid etc. Well worth the money.

[Restyle]

Quote: Originally Posted by SimonSJR (original)

.... but when I did an advance driving course with ex police this was talked about in quite some depth....

You`re the one who should be sharing their knowledge here then
So, as an advanced Driver, are you taught to use Engine Braking during routine driving, or just when road conditions dictate?

[inomis]

ABS brakes are much safer to stop a car than the engine braking effect. At least one front tire will skid some if the effect is too much and this could very easily occur on snow or ice.

That said I use engine braking all the time for pleasure driving though I believe it's generally frowned upon for performance driving in a car with modern brakes. It's just not needed or as good as the brake at stopping the car.

[jimmy_racoon]

Well, proper or not, I always downshift into corners.

Not only does it feel good, I seem to have better control.

Not to mention, it is very fun to do.

My '05 Cooper has 34,000 miles, same clutch and same brake pads for that matter.

Generally it is a 4th to 3rd downshift 'cos I tend to take corners rather quickly and love accelerating through them.

Not much of a brake guy I guess. To each his own.

Motor on.

[MINI-Morgan]

I use engine braking as basically that is everytime you lift off you are engine braking. I heal and toe it to blip the throttle so that the downshift is almost perfectly smooth and doesnt put much strain on the gearbox and clutch.

Generally I use the brakes as little as possible as thats what I was taught by a police trainer I spent a day with. Very interesting day and he was right in everything he said. Having to brake means you were unprepared for what might be ahead but ofcourse before someone says but what about the x or the y, yes you do need to brake if someone suddenly brakes or if you need to stop quickly or to a stop.

Just remember slow in fast out

And ABS is only there to give you control under braking its not there to stop you quicker. Thats called EBD but still you can only stop as fast as the traction you have on the road. ABS as it pulses in slippery conditions actually increases braking distance then what your car could possible stop at but you would have far better control however its still better to brake not at your best instead of being locked up.

26K Miles...original clutch just about but on its way out after cooking it in the summer Too many horses and living on too steep a hill and being too red misted at the time. opps! I would say original brakes but as a track guy i'm running GTT Spiroslot track pads. Amazing! Fantastic everyday and best ever!

[Rakey]

Have always used gear changes to brake, just the way I was taught to drive.

I have always felt more in control of the car by keeping the car in the right gear or a lower one as you slow, never change when on a roundabout, make sure you are prepared for it before you get to it I was always told. Doing this I always have it sitting in the sweet spot so have the power there if I need to manouver out of any trouble.

Its probably why I get so many miles out of brake pads, last car had 43k miles on it and on the original pads still and clutch when I traded her in

[GTT 280]

I never engine brake.

Always use the brakes, that's what they are there for. Why wear out the engine when you can use the replaceable brake pads ???

The "system" of driving (used by police drivers) states that you should leave the car in the gear you last used for acceleration, changing it only when you need to accelerate again. No need to change down gears as you slow down, just engage the next gear for drive as an when you need it. So if you are in 5th and doing 70mph, then arrive at a junction at 10mph there is no need to go 4th,3rd, 2nd... just brake to slow the car down, leaving it in 5th gear, then select 2nd as soon as you are required to accelerate again.

Agreed, you do leave the car in the 5th gear, so technically you are braking, but to be honest I always dip the clutch for the 2 seconds i drop from 70mph to 10mph, and prepare the 2nd gear ready.

The key to any good driving is awareness and interprating hazards, thus removing any unecessary braking - worst example is the guy on the motorway doing 70mph following the guy doing 69mph about 2 feet from his bumper, dabbing the brakes every 2 seconds.

PS. i hate the folk that are intent on annoying anyone with a fast car by hanging in the outside lane on a 2 lane junction to prevent you from speeding off, and they just sit there next to the inside car, under the speed limit, knowing very well they are stopping you and gaining the 'higher ground' - basically anyone doing this is an utter w****r !!

Cheers,
K.

[burns863]

Quote: Originally Posted by 260 GTT (original)

I never engine brake.

Always use the brakes, that's what they are there for. Why wear out the engine when you can use the replaceable brake pads ???

The "system" of driving (used by police drivers) states that you should leave the car in the gear you last used for acceleration, changing it only when you need to accelerate again. No need to change down gears as you slow down, just engage the next gear for drive as an when you need it. So if you are in 5th and doing 70mph, then arrive at a junction at 10mph there is no need to go 4th,3rd, 2nd... just brake to slow the car down, leaving it in 5th gear, then select 2nd as soon as you are required to accelerate again.

Agreed, you do leave the car in the 5th gear, so technically you are braking, but to be honest I always dip the clutch for the 2 seconds i drop from 70mph to 10mph, and prepare the 2nd gear ready.

The key to any good driving is awareness and interprating hazards, thus removing any unecessary braking - worst example is the guy on the motorway doing 70mph following the guy doing 69mph about 2 feet from his bumper, dabbing the brakes every 2 seconds.

PS. i hate the folk that are intent on annoying anyone with a fast car by hanging in the outside lane on a 2 lane junction to prevent you from speeding off, and they just sit there next to the inside car, under the speed limit, knowing very well they are stopping you and gaining the 'higher ground' - basically anyone doing this is an utter w****r !!

Cheers,
K.

Couldnt have put it better myself. Thats exactly how I drive. Brakes are easily replaceable and I would rather put less wear on the engine.

I have an 02 Cooper and it still has the factory fitted clutch. Pads been changed by previous owner and I have changed the pads AND all 4 discs (they had started to corrode bad )

[Tonyt3]

Engine braking is no longer required on modern cars, and is no longer taught to beginers.

I suggest that any car where you feel engine braking is needed does not give the driver adequate confidence in the OEM brake set up (an issue with Mini's, granted), however, with the advances of brake setup, electronic stability controls, disk and pad materials, chassis dynamics, tyre dynamics, engine management programs etc etc etc, engine braking is a mere habit that is admittedly hard to break.

Like any bad habit, you know you really shouldnt.

The truth be said, in a modern car, using engine braking techniques actually increases the periods of time when you are not 100% in control of a cars actions.

Oh, and anyone whose tried down shifting on a race prepped car with plenty of power through the rear wheels will be able to tell you what the crash barrier looks like.... you can get away with it on many occasions, but theres alwats one when you get that huge 'torque bite' that throws you in a different direction than you intended to take...

[ButtonIt]

There's a nice noise that comes out of my exhaust when I use engine braking

[caesar]

Glad to see my thread is proving of interest, I show below a thread I posted in ' Sorely Tempted' : -


"Near where I live is a long two-lane duel carriageway in a rural area interspersed with roundabouts, it's probably 8-miles long and has a hard shoulder. Wet or dry when approaching the roundabouts, I always use the gears to slow down rather than the brakes. Quite often I am overtaken by other vehicles in the outer lane who then brake hard just before the roundabout.

As a result of using the gears to slow I am in a good position in the inside lane and the correct gear to accelerate around the roundabout and overtake these cars, who are in the outer lane in a too higher gear to accelerate away from the roundabout as quickly as me".


I have been using engine braking for many years, and I can honestly state that it has caused no clutch/gearbox problems, and brake pads last considerably longer.

Some years back I had one of the first 1.7L Ford Pumas, the first edition was notorious because the front disks were too small with the result that they warped due to over heating. During the 2-years that I had it the dealer replaced the front disks twice.......they use to ask me how I managed to make them last so long compared to other owners !

[Hat]

hey caesar, did your username used to be Mr Dog by an chance?

[hyperbluejames]

Well I was always taught to only change gear when required, ie. to change to the appropriate gear to accelerate with at the speed you are going, exactlt as GTT has said. I have picked up engine breaking on my own...but I find that the car lurches when I do so. I'm quite gentle with the clutch, but the revs jump to such different levels that when I lift the clutch back up to engage gear, it lurches. Anyone know how to fix that? I think the Hell Toe method is a solution, but I've also tried blipping the throttle to match revs and this does seem to work too. Any better ideas??

Thanks!

James