[mister.t]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Nothing wrong with the Cooper, but the S is less wrong. But they're all good really.

lol

[jamesbeaumont]

wiggis is there any chance you could post the figures you recorded on your gtech? would make an interesting read. id really like to see a 0 - 100 time for comparison to the R53's 28.9 secs if you have that from you timing on you local airfield

[stuvoi]

My last car was an R53 S

When looking at whether to buy new car I drove both the Cooper and the S on a weekend test drive.

I bought the S

To me the Cooper felt it had something missing and I could happily justify the extra £3k on the S over the fuel economy of the Cooper.

But, if I had to worry about money, insurance etc would I have gone for the Cooper? Not sure - the jury is out on that one.

[pimbeche]

Maybe the ecu learnt the way that people prior to you way of driving, they might had been slow drivers.

[Avantone]

Quote: Originally Posted by pimbeche (original)

Maybe the ecu learnt the way that people prior to you way of driving, they might had been slow drivers.

Hire car ? Slow drivers ? .......... Now that would be something

(Not me though you understand, I always treat hire/courtesy cars with the greatest of respect )

[Dainewb]

Got my S back now!

Even when not driving particularly fast, I am enjoying the low down torque for easy effortless driving. At times in the Cooper at low revs I did find it to feel really quite slow. Love the fact that the S pulls so strongly even below 2000 rpm

I certainly put the cooper through it's paces, but s all the way now I have it back

[rec]

sorry, but the comparison is a little... flawed !

that's almost like flying an F16 for 3 years then getting into a Cessna...

[Dainewb]

Quote: Originally Posted by rec (original)

sorry, but the comparison is a little... flawed !

that's almost like flying an F16 for 3 years then getting into a Cessna...

[sav112]

In all honesty I’m thinking about the cooper, if I wanted something fast the S would not cut it…. In real terms it might be fast for a mini but the others are a lot faster the Golf. Renault, Honda…..

Mini wins on fun factor….

I just hope now that when i go out and try the cooper its not really slow as the S is not the best starting point for people to say wow its a lot slower......

[Avantone]

Quote: Originally Posted by sav112 (original)

In all honesty I’m thinking about the cooper, if I wanted something fast the S would not cut it…. In real terms it might be fast for a mini but the others are a lot faster the Golf. Renault, Honda…..

Mini wins on fun factor….

I just hope now that when i go out and try the cooper its not really slow as the S is not the best starting point for people to say wow its a lot slower......

Got to disagree, the Honda and Golf etc are faster but not "a lot" as you say.

I'll stick with my (personal) assessment that there's a big difference between the MC an MCS, not just in terms of ultimate performance but more importantly grunt and flexibility.

I do agree that there's far quicker stuff out there (at a price)

Avantone

[Dainewb]

Quote: Originally Posted by sav112 (original)

In all honesty I’m thinking about the cooper, if I wanted something fast the S would not cut it…. In real terms it might be fast for a mini but the others are a lot faster the Golf. Renault, Honda…..

Mini wins on fun factor….

I just hope now that when i go out and try the cooper its not really slow as the S is not the best starting point for people to say wow its a lot slower......

From all the figures and reviews that I have read, the others are not even particularly faster at all, let alone much faster.

Certainly a review between the mini and the renault, said that on more winding raods the renault could not keep up due to the lack of low down torque. Golf has a bit more power but is heavier.

I must admit that I have not driven the others, but the R56S is quite fast! Have you driven them all?

[Impulsive]

Sorry sav112, the 'S' is equally as fast as its competition and according to the magazines' comparos it's marginally faster than a GTI. Absolute values of HP and torque mean nothing when you take weight and handling out of the equation. The 'S' is tops. As for the base vs. 'S' experience, go for a test drive and you'll realize the difference.

[Parc77]

Renault, Golf etc brigade are not alot faster infact if we were talking Renault Clio 197 its performance figures are quite simular. Evo puts the Cooper in its Knowledge section in with Superminis I.E warm hatches. Where as the Cooper S is in with the Hot hatches due to the large differnce in performance.

[sav112]

I’ve been in the older BMW cooper s and it never really hit me as fast, nippy wee car yes . When I first got into my mates new M3 I thought “Jesus” it was actually uncomfortably fast and hard….The Focus ST was a surprise it was quick.

I’m the baby of the group , some of my mate are up to ten years older and I’ve been kicking about some expensive fast cars for the past 20 years from Renault 5 Turbo 2 and lotus Carltons. I’ve always had a soft spot for the mk1 golf GTI as it was a flying machine and the RS 2000 Mexico was fast and fun.

It’s a bit like the 1275 GT Mini we used to knock about in, it was nippy and fun and felt fast but was not really. The 3lt Capri would eat it, but then again it ended up upside down in a hedge! One mate had a 8lt Land Rover that could do 0-60 in about 5 seconds but was puffed out at 70ish…….
Even my other mates Porsche was quick and it was nackered with smoke billowing out when he went for it….

Aaaaaaaa the days before speed cameras.


Each to there own I’ll guess you don’t know till you try one but I’ve never been a speed merchant as long as I can over take no problem then I’m happy. I Just got alarmed when I read the guy thought the cooper was painfully slow……

Make & Model Year 0-60 (in secs) 
      
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA   New-2004                            6.0 
Audi A3 1.8T  1999-2003                                            8.1 
Audi S3 quattro 1999-2003                                        6.6 
Citroën Xsara VTS New-2004                                   8.0 
Citroën C2 VTR New-2004                                        9.0 
Citroën C2 GT New-2004                                          8.7 
Citroën Saxo VTR 1997-2003                                   9.3 
Citroën Saxo VTS 1997-2003                                   7.6 
Fiat Punto GT 1994-99                                               8.0 
Fiat Punto HGT New-2004                                       8.0 
Fiat Uno Turbo 1990-92                                            7.7 
Ford Focus ST170 New-2004                                 7.9 
Ford Focus RS New-2004                                       6.4 
Ford Fiesta RS Turbo 1990-91                               7.5 
Ford Escort RS Cosworth 1992-96                        5.8 
Honda Civic Type-R New-2005                              6.6 
Lancia Delta Integrale 1988-93                              5.7 
MG ZR 160 New-2005                                              7.4 
Mini Cooper New-2006                                            9.0 
Mini Cooper S New-2006                                         7.7 
Mini Cooper S Works New-2006                            6.7 
Nissan Sunny GTi-R 1992-93                                6.1 
Peugeot 106 Rallye 1997-98                                  8.8 
Peugeot 106 GTI New-2004                                  7.4 
Peugeot 206 GTI New-2004                                  7.4 
Peugeot 306 GTI-6 1993-2001                             7.2 
Peugeot 306 Rallye 1998-99                                 6.9 
Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 1988-91                              7.9 
Renault Sport Clio Cup 172 2001-0-                  6.5 
Renault Sport Clio 172 2001-2004                     7.1 
Renault Sport Clio 182 New-2005                     7.1 
Renault Sport Clio V6  1999-2002                     5.8 
Renault Sport Clio V6 255 New-2005               5.8 
Renault 5 GT Turbo 1987-91                             7.8 
Renault Clio Williams 1993-96                         7.6 
Seat Ibiza Cupra 20v T New-2004                    7.8 
Seat Ibiza Cupra R 20v T New-2004                7.1 
Seat Leon Cupra 20v T New-2004                   7.7 
Seat Leon Cupra R 20v T New-2004               6.9 
Skoda Fabia vRS New-2004                             9.6 
Toyota Corolla T-Sport New-2004                    8.4 
Vauxhall Astra GSi New-2004                            6.0 
VW Golf MkV GT 150  New-2004                      8.9 
VW Golf R32 New-2004                                      6.4 
VW Golf VR6 1992-97                                        7.1 
VW Lupo GTI New-2000                                   8.3 
VW Lupo GTI  2000-2004                                 7.3

[Impulsive]

I mentioned this in another thread ... Road & Track (North America) did a comparison between several cars and the MazdaSpeed3 ran 0-60 in 6.0, the R56S ran 6.2, and the GTI ran 6.3. I forgot the rest. I'm sold.

[Avantone]

Those 0-60 times don't even line up with MINI's official numbers for the MCS.

MINI.co.uk says MCS 0-62 in 7.1, MC 9.1

MINIUSA.com says MCS 0-60 in 6.9, MC 8.5

Not sure about the Cooper, but it's pretty well accepted now that the MCS numbers are understated.

The point is that if you drive them back to back, there is a significant difference in performance beyond 0-60 numbers.

You can't (or shouldn't) use all the outright performance of either around town, however the grunt and drivability of the MCS did it for me.

Avantone

[mister.t]

Driven the 1.8 Civic ES (well Dad and friends have its their car) Its reasonably quick. Only a little quicker than the Cooper. Certainly has more mid-range punch between 2-4.5k rpm and a fruity exhaust note.

[jamesbeaumont]

Quote: Originally Posted by Avantone (original)

Those 0-60 times don't even line up with MINI's official numbers for the MCS.

MINI.co.uk says MCS 0-62 in 7.1, MC 9.1

MINIUSA.com says MCS 0-60 in 6.9, MC 8.5

Not sure about the Cooper, but it's pretty well accepted now that the MCS numbers are understated.

The point is that if you drive them back to back, there is a significant difference in performance beyond 0-60 numbers.

You can't (or shouldn't) use all the outright performance of either around town, however the grunt and drivability of the MCS did it for me.

Avantone

Manufactured claims are measured with 90% of a full tank of fuel and 7kg luggage. If you run a car in cold conditions with no luggage with the fuel warning light on youre bound to beat the manufacturers claim by a fair margin. Anyway theres a lot more to the difference in performance than the 0-60 times Theres probably over 10 seconds difference in the 0-100 times and a good few on in gear times. Oh does the mcs suffer from any turbo lag? Always a big factor in real world performance, my dad used to have a clio williams with 150 bhp and no turbo and then he moved onto a TT 225 which he swore was slower for overtaking because of the turbo lag Oh how I loved that Williams

[sav112]

I don’t rate 0-60 times but thought I’d fire them up on the site. There so much more to cars like the Mini like handling etc. I mean my mates M3 I’d love to drive on a run to Europe and would waste the Cooper S from a standing start but on a drive up to say the Trosacks I’d have the Mini no question as the roads are the best in Scotland for the car.

Plus the M3 is spec’d to double the cooper S at over 40K and has two trackers so it does not get nicked……It will be interesting to see if the S is quick

I plan to take out the Copper on a least a morning or afternoon to see if I could live with it with the Family and shopping and then ask for a quick go of the S and D to compare.

[Avantone]

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesbeaumont (original)

Oh does the mcs suffer from any turbo lag? Always a big factor in real world performance, my dad used to have a clio williams with 150 bhp and no turbo and then he moved onto a TT 225 which he swore was slower for overtaking because of the turbo lag Oh how I loved that Williams

Turbo lag? Not that you'd notice.

You can pootle round town in a high gear or give it full beans on the open road - pretty good on both counts.

Avantone