[Asturman]

Hello everybody,

It is now a couple of months I got my MCS. I trade it for a 2005 MCS and I have to say that I am a little bit disappointed in some matters.

I know from all data and test road done that this MCS is marginally faster than the 2005 one but there is some things I miss and some I do not welcome...

The kart-like handling of the 2005 MCS is where? Well, I really don´t know. The 2007 MCS is refined a good cruiser and It had very good ride quality but if you like more racing than cruising, then...

I miss the lift-off oversteer in corners... And I do not like at all the torque steer, a problem that I do not remember, at least not at this level in the 2005 MCS.
Sport button? Good If you leave it all the time on so, what for something is not worth it to switch off? Anyway, the steering is direct but lacks feedback from the road.

My wife is very happy with the 2007 MCS, I think this model is less hardcore, a little bit softer.
I still love it, but I expected something better at every level...

These are my two MCS

[CC07ERS]

I wish i had never got rid of my r53 . Lucky you 2 MCS

[Prowse]

Totally agree, this is the reason why, when recently changing cars, I went for a very late r53 and got a JCW kit fitted along with a set of the new runflats (which improve the handling on the previous generation of runflats).

Enjoy your new car though.

[Robot Features]

I disagree. my r56 with sports suspension & lsd handles 10 times better than my old r50! can't even compare the 2. and it handles bumps on corners alot better also.

[Prowse]

Quote: Originally Posted by Asturman (original)

...
And I do not like at all the torque steer...
I think this model is less hardcore, a little bit softer...

I was speaking with one of our racing-car design instructors; apparently softening suspension on cars a little is an easy method of dealing with the turbo-torque steer, quite common apparently - not my field though.

[Asturman]

In the pictures you can see the MCS I had before and the new one I own now but the 2005 MCS belong now to a friend, so I just own one but I still get to drive both and it was driving both cars I realized all that differences.

Anyway, I am happy someone thinks a little bit like me. The only reason I got this car is because for my wife is much better, if it was just up to me I would had all that money spent in a Works kit or, why not, in a GP.........

[shinchan]

I agreed with you, I just bought the R53 about 3 weeks ago and I was able to test drive both R56 and R53. R56 is definitly more refine but if you like the go-kart handling then R53 is the go. I also find R53 has more character. ie, popping exhaust in overrun, supercharge whine.. etc. I managed to get myself a 2007 R53 (06 Dec Built), it must be one of the last one built. The saving I get over the R56 can easily add to the John Cooper kit which I plan to do in few months time.. However, I think the R56 will hold the value better being newer and nicer interior.. Both are good cars, just depends what you like.

[Arnbut]

It needs LSD, springs, and sway bar for the track.
They actually handle quite well but lack the visceral road feel that the earlier incarnations had. Refinement and comfort were bought at the expense of some "feel".
And it is balls-out quicker than my R53. No contest.

[msh441]

Quote: Originally Posted by Asturman (original)

The kart-like handling of the 2005 MCS is where? Well, I really don´t know. The 2007 MCS is refined a good cruiser and It had very good ride quality but if you like more racing than cruising, then...

I miss the lift-off oversteer in corners... And I do not like at all the torque steer, a problem that I do not remember, at least not at this level in the 2005 MCS.
Sport button? Good If you leave it all the time on so, what for something is not worth it to switch off? Anyway, the steering is direct but lacks feedback from the road.

I have the Sport Suspension on H&R lowering springs and I gotta say this car not only has MORE of a tendency to overstear when lifting-off the the throddle, but it's even MORE controllable than the R53 was when doing so.

I'm getting to the point where I can basicly hang the rear end on mine out now on a whim and damn near drift the thing through corners. It's AMAZING (and like nothing I've experienced before in a FWD car). I've been able to kick the back out on R53's in the past on lift-off, but it's so much easier to keep the throddle and chassis balanced with the rear end hanging out in the R56.

As far as the sport button goes... there's a mod described on NAM that changes the operation to be "auto-on" upon start up.

Torque steer? Well, more torque (or at least more torque waaaayyyy lower in the powerband) means more felt torque steer in a FWD car... but the LSD helps some and the right tires and PSI helps some more.

[Arnbut]

Quote: Originally Posted by msh441 (original)

I'm getting to the point where I can basicly hang the rear end on mine out now on a whim and damn near drift the thing through corners. It's AMAZING (and like nothing I've experienced before in a FWD car). I've been able to kick the back out on R53's in the past on lift-off, but it's so much easier to keep the throddle and chassis balanced with the rear end hanging out in the R56.

I noticed that at the track also.
I was able to go wide-open-throttle at apex on decreasing radius turns in third gear and hit about 90 mph while drifting out slightly. I didn't run out of room one single time (but I came mighty close a couple of times...).
My outside-rear tire would lift a bit but I don't think it ever came off the ground (stock springs and swaybar). I never lifted the tires in my R53 that I know of.

[BMWF1]

I havent posted here in a long while but have came back now that I am now much more serious about purchasing an R56. Anyway, I saw this post and really didnt understand it.

The main problem I have is how you didnt notice any of these "problems" on a test drive? Do people test drive cars any more because I am reading more and more posts like this where they are "surprised" that their new car doesnt do the same tricks. I could be wrong, but I thought that the point of the test drive was to decipher these "problems"... If you didnt notice these problems then either two things happened: a) you didnt test drive the car properly or b) you bought the car for different reasons and tried to convince yourself that it would two things at once (be both a race car and a cruiser).

Either way, these complaints are baffling to me considering my experiences with the car. If you want lift-off oversteer, it is there. What I think you are not understanding is that a faster car (i.e. around a track, not in terms of straight line speed) has more grip which means the point where lift-off oversteer or even understeer happens is higher. So, go around the same corner you have driven around for three years and do the same things, the same result wont happen because the limits of the car are that much higher. Even if you get understeer in that situation, it is not the fault of the car. Having driven the R56 MCS, I can guarantee you that lift-off oversteer is there. In fact, I get the R56 to oversteer more than my rear-wheel drive MX-5. Normally I wouldnt bother with posts like these because most of these things are open to interpretation and driving styles. But I know that it is there and to have someone complain about it is a reflection, in my opinion, of said person not looking long or hard enough.

In regards to torque steer, it is there no question. I dont find it to be a life-ending problem. But that is me. Again, though, I have to question how you didnt notice during a test drive. It is not something that just comes out of nowhere. It is a fairly consistent thing and a test drive should have easily revealed this.

These R53 vs. R56 comparisons are a completely waste of time, in my opinion. Those who purchase R53s over R56s will always be explaining why they didnt buy R56s, and apparently that requires posting in forums asking about a specific R56 situations about how great of a time they are having with their R53s. Great for you. I found the R53 crude, cheaply constructed, and a bit boring. That's just my opinion of a car that I drove. The bottom line, though, is that we made the decisions that we made and if you feel the need to rationalize your purchase of the cheaper car on an internet forum, then I really question your priorities.

[Rocco9999]

Quote: Originally Posted by msh441 (original)

As far as the sport button goes... there's a mod described on NAM that changes the operation to be "auto-on" upon start up.

Do you have a link to the webpage?
Or does anyone have a clue how to keep the sport button on all the time (without sellotape)

[BradF]

Quote: Originally Posted by BMWF1 (original)

These R53 vs. R56 comparisons are a completely waste of time, in my opinion. Those who purchase R53s over R56s will always be explaining why they didnt buy R56s, and apparently that requires posting in forums asking about a specific R56 situations about how great of a time they are having with their R53s. Great for you. I found the R53 crude, cheaply constructed, and a bit boring. That's just my opinion of a car that I drove. The bottom line, though, is that we made the decisions that we made and if you feel the need to rationalize your purchase of the cheaper car on an internet forum, then I really question your priorities.

Interesting point there, and for the most part a good one.

The R53 v. R56 debate will never be put to rest because as almost all can agree the R53 has more quirks and thus more character. It is very much up to individual interpretation whether those quirks and character are good or bad. I strongly disagree that the R53 is "cheaply constructed and boring". I very recently chose a new, last-of-the-line R53 MCS over an R56 because of the quirks and the added character. Having owned and been a huge fan of many British cars, the R53's quirks, character, and (yes) rigidity were welcome and familiar. The BMW guy in me very much liked the R56 and some of the added refinements, and I'm certain I'll get a Clubman when they hit the States (don't tell my wife just yet).

I find in reading these posts that some of the commentary is based on trying to affirm an individual purchase decision rather than an objective presentation of reality. I think all of us R53'ers need to (at the very least) concede that the R56 is an extremely good car with equal (and in some cases better) performance. It's just a fact. I also think the R56'ers out there should concede that the R53's character and crudeness can often be preferable, and certainly set the stage for the new model.

Considering that BMW was forced to modify the first-gen MINI to meet safety and future emissions / fuel economy requirements, they did one hell of a job and the R56 will more than carry the torch.

[BMWF1]

For me, the R53 just hasnt floated my boat. It is a bit like the difference between the 996s and 997s. The 996s just do nothing for me but the 997, especially in Carrera S form, is about as good as a car can get. The point, though, is that we all have our different opinions about certain cars. Some may hate a certain car that someone else loves. But what I dont understand is why there is the apparent insecurity some people have with regards to their purchase. I have nothing against R50/53 owners and feel no need to convince everyone that the R56 is a better car. Not to paint too broad of a stroke, but many here seem compelled to shout at great lengths how about character and quirks only in an effort to rationalize the purchase.

The R53 was a great car and I nearly bought one but the problems that I had with it were extremely amplified when the R56 came out. Ever since then, I have been very fond of the R56. That is my personal experience and my personal opinion. Everyone will disagree to some extent.

[Paul]

The 2nd generation MINI is cheaper to make than the first generation car. For example the new bonnet and front end in general is much cheaper and easier to make than that of the previous generation.

Cheaper, however, doesn't mean worse. End of the line first generation MINIs had many revisions, many to cut costs, but few would argue they were the highest quality of the first generation MINIs produced.

[BradF]

Quote: Originally Posted by BMWF1 (original)

many here seem compelled to shout at great lengths how about character and quirks only in an effort to rationalize the purchase.

That's nuts. It must be hard to swallow the fact that the R53 might just be preferable to some. So, in an effort to rationalize the purchase of your R56, you shout at great lengths about how those that chose an R53 (especially during a time when the R56 was also available) now must point to intangible reasons like character and quirks in an effort to rationalize their purchase. Obviously your implication is that the R56 is better and not choosing it must now be 'rationalized'. Poppycock.

I chose the R53 because it just feels more connected (to me) and feels like it is a better built car (again, my preference). Plus, the R56 looks like a goofy caricature of the R53.

[gen2coopers]

Having owned an R53 Cooper for nearly 3 yrs I can say it was a great car.....however the bonet fit was never quite right.....it had 3 rattles and a number of other quality issues.
My R56 Cooper S has far better panel fit all round....no paint flaws....and no rattles. Its also far quieter and I personally think the interior is of a far higher quality than the R53.
The R56 is less 'pretty' than the R53 but i prefer the more masculine proportions of the car....I feel its kept the essence of the old car but moved the game on in all the areas where the R53 was lacking especially from a mechanical point of view....that old chrysler lump was pretty much the pits from a refinement and consumpsion point of view.....and no sychro on reverse?!
Horses for corses.....but most will eventually end up in an R56 and say pretty much the same.... better car

[Robot Features]

Quote: Originally Posted by gen2coopers (original)

Having owned an R53 Cooper for nearly 3 yrs I can say it was a great car.....however the bonet fit was never quite right.....it had 3 rattles and a number of other quality issues.
My R56 Cooper S has far better panel fit all round....no paint flaws....and no rattles. Its also far quieter and I personally think the interior is of a far higher quality than the R53.
The R56 is less 'pretty' than the R53 but i prefer the more masculine proportions of the car....I feel its kept the essence of the old car but moved the game on in all the areas where the R53 was lacking especially from a mechanical point of view....that old chrysler lump was pretty much the pits from a refinement and consumpsion point of view.....and no sychro on reverse?!
Horses for corses.....but most will eventually end up in an R56 and say pretty much the same.... better car

No rattles ay! You reckon? Hahahaha

The whole dash in my R56 is being removed as we speak. Killer vibration sound that is becoming a nuisance to fix.

But yes, overall it beats my old R50 hands down. I'm currently driving a convertible "s" as my loan car and i must say the R56 is far superior in every single way, accept for the Harman Kardon Sound System. That system was the bomb! The new Mini HIFI is nothing special.

[gen2coopers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Robot Features (original)

No rattles ay! You reckon? Hahahaha

The whole dash in my R56 is being removed as we speak. Killer vibration sound that is becoming a nuisance to fix.

But yes, overall it beats my old R50 hands down. I'm currently driving a convertible "s" as my loan car and i must say the R56 is far superior in every single way, accept for the Harman Kardon Sound System. That system was the bomb! The new Mini HIFI is nothing special.

You do seem to suffer more with good and bad examples with MINI.....must be the "highly trained" assembly staff
Sorry to hear about your rattles....they can be really annoying....mine so far has none and its on sports with 17"ers so would think in 500 miles if it was going to happen it would have by now.
I agree on the "Hi Fi" sound system.....its slightly better than my old cars Boost system but for a 10 speaker set up and the extra £££ its not all that.
Not so sure i'd want my dash removed even for an anoying rattle....they generally cant find them and create a few more in the process....not to mention the possibility of damage to the dash and other parts of the car......sure yours will be ok but had a couple of bad experiances myself....although with a Fiat dealer so not quite the same

[FergusM]

Well I had a rattle..and after 2 hours of work it is gine.. they had to "re-insulate" the back of the dash... which I think means something was re-attached that should have not come away in first place..

...still have a rattle but that is due to kids seat in back and I can't blame mini for that one.....apart from that completely rattle free....hope it stay that way !