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Tommo · Mar 2nd, 2008, 07:42 AM

Firstly let me reiterate once again I'm not anti DSC I do think it's a very good system and I know it will help in situations that most if not all drivers would struggle with. I'm also playing devils advocate a little bit but I do feel with good reason in this case.

The original question was wether or not a cooper S "needs" DSC and so far all I've asked is does it actually need it on a small very well balanced sports car being driven at speeds relevant to everyday driving on public roads ?

Older hot hatches like Peugot's 205 gti, which where quite well known for being a little tricky on the limit didn't have any form of stability control and although quite a few probably ended up as part of the scenery lots didn't. It was also well regarded as being one of the purest hot hatches ever made and a benchmark for feel and handling. I wonder as more and more electronic systems are bolted onto the mini if this is the reason for people complaining of the cars lack of feel compared to the old one etc ?

Would most of the situations mentioned throughout this thread not be rescued by the ASC+T or as mentioned a little more forward planning ?

I've seen from a few other threads that your convinced of DSC's worth Fergus but so far I've not seen a convincing argument for it's inclusion and in the post above just sarcasm ? Why is it do you think that Police Traffic Officers spend so much time learning to anticipate road conditions in the roadcraft system of which the central tenet is -
The fundamental aim of advanced driving is to utilize observations, anticipation and planning, to allow a driver to have adequate time to deal with any situation that might arise. This is applicable not only to genuinely good drivers, travelling within the relevant legal speed limits, but also to emergency personnel driving at very high speeds."

Have most drivers ever completed any form of advanced driver training ? I'm not questioning peoples driving ability in any way, just wondering what level of training beyond the basic lessons to pass the test most of us have undertaken ?

As I said in a previous post my worry is that for a lot of drivers DSC is seen as a safety net. I.e. when things go pear shaped DSC will save me, but while in many situations it may well do, it won't overcome simple physics and it can't steer for you etc. Wouldn't it be better to have had some type of training to - 1. Anticipate potential hazards and 2. Have better vehicle control, then if the car does get into a slide etc most drivers won't be experiencing the sensation for the first time in a situation where it really matters ?

I don't think I'm the best driver in the world, far from it and I'm happy to admit I'm always learning. I agree that there will always be situations that really are unexpected and that there are plenty of other idiots out there. I just wonder if DSC is the best way to combat these situations or if ASC+T and some advanced driver training would be better ? I really am wondering which would be the best method to avoid accidents for the majority of drivers ?

Mar 2nd, 2008, 07:42 AM	#38
Tommo 24hr Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Up North Local Time: 03:46 PM Posts: 248 Offline	Firstly let me reiterate once again I'm not anti DSC I do think it's a very good system and I know it will help in situations that most if not all drivers would struggle with. I'm also playing devils advocate a little bit but I do feel with good reason in this case. The original question was wether or not a cooper S "needs" DSC and so far all I've asked is does it actually need it on a small very well balanced sports car being driven at speeds relevant to everyday driving on public roads ? Older hot hatches like Peugot's 205 gti, which where quite well known for being a little tricky on the limit didn't have any form of stability control and although quite a few probably ended up as part of the scenery lots didn't. It was also well regarded as being one of the purest hot hatches ever made and a benchmark for feel and handling. I wonder as more and more electronic systems are bolted onto the mini if this is the reason for people complaining of the cars lack of feel compared to the old one etc ? Would most of the situations mentioned throughout this thread not be rescued by the ASC+T or as mentioned a little more forward planning ? I've seen from a few other threads that your convinced of DSC's worth Fergus but so far I've not seen a convincing argument for it's inclusion and in the post above just sarcasm ? Why is it do you think that Police Traffic Officers spend so much time learning to anticipate road conditions in the roadcraft system of which the central tenet is - The fundamental aim of advanced driving is to utilize observations, anticipation and planning, to allow a driver to have adequate time to deal with any situation that might arise. This is applicable not only to genuinely good drivers, travelling within the relevant legal speed limits, but also to emergency personnel driving at very high speeds." Have most drivers ever completed any form of advanced driver training ? I'm not questioning peoples driving ability in any way, just wondering what level of training beyond the basic lessons to pass the test most of us have undertaken ? As I said in a previous post my worry is that for a lot of drivers DSC is seen as a safety net. I.e. when things go pear shaped DSC will save me, but while in many situations it may well do, it won't overcome simple physics and it can't steer for you etc. Wouldn't it be better to have had some type of training to - 1. Anticipate potential hazards and 2. Have better vehicle control, then if the car does get into a slide etc most drivers won't be experiencing the sensation for the first time in a situation where it really matters ? I don't think I'm the best driver in the world, far from it and I'm happy to admit I'm always learning. I agree that there will always be situations that really are unexpected and that there are plenty of other idiots out there. I just wonder if DSC is the best way to combat these situations or if ASC+T and some advanced driver training would be better ? I really am wondering which would be the best method to avoid accidents for the majority of drivers ?