Is there actually a specific law about this? I've seen this a few times lately, people in the back (and even front) of a car just holding onto their otherwise unrestrained children. No matter how many times I see it it makes me uncomfortable and concerned for the child.

Surely this isn't legal?

Hmm, only thing I've found is this:

"It is the driver's responsibility to see that all children under 14 are correctly strapped in. All children under 3 years travelling in the front seat must be carried in an appropriate child restraint. The law does not prevent you from carrying more passengers than there are seatbelts and restraints. However, it is illegal to carry an unrestrained child in the front seat of any vehicle."

From a UK Government site.

That's worrying, so in the back seat it's not illegal, and in six months time I can have Alfie in the front with a seat belt only?! Can't be right surely?

Hmm, only thing I've found is this:

"It is the driver's responsibility to see that all children under 14 are correctly strapped in. All children under 3 years travelling in the front seat must be carried in an appropriate child restraint. The law does not prevent you from carrying more passengers than there are seatbelts and restraints. However, it is illegal to carry an unrestrained child in the front seat of any vehicle."

From a UK Government site.

That's worrying, so in the back seat it's not illegal, and in six months time I can have Alfie in the front with a seat belt only?! Can't be right surely?

Sections 75 & 76 of the Highway code advise

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/05.htm

But as you say, according to the rules, a 3 yr old can sit in the front with only an adult seatbelt.

Rob

Damn, that's poor:

"CHILD under 3 years of age

FRONT SEAT:
Appropriate child restraint MUST be worn

REAR SEAT:
Appropriate child restraint MUST be worn if available"

So if I don't fit the car seat, I can just have Alfie free in the back? That's just plain wrong. :( I think the law needs sorting on this as from what I've seen some people are too stupid to look after their own children and could do with some legal encouragement.

:(

Well the first part says that any children under 14 must be correctly strapped in. If not then the driver could be prosecuted. This would prevent any children being "held" in the car as they are not properly restrained.

I think they would have to be in a harness of some description, probably attached to an adult who was themselves restrained by a belt. Or attached to a solid part of the car. It could quite easily be argued that they were not correctly restrained if these harnesses (if they existed) didn't have some sort of British or European standard marks on them.

In theory then, you could drive a MINI with 4 adults and any number of other children under 14 provided they were restrained by other methods and the driver would be legal. The same is correct for those over 14 but they are themselves responsible and not the driver.

So if you were to carry 5 adults in a MINI, 4 restrained and one sat on the hump in the middle of the rear seat, the extra passenger could be open to some sort of prosecution themselves if they were not restrained. If they were to cause injury to any of the other passengers in the event of an accident they would also be responsible. Even to the extent of manslaughter charges if they were to kill someone.

The law (http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/motorvehicles/seatbelt_law.htm) states the following:

Children under 3 years old
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used (the adult seat belt is not sufficient). If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used, if available.

If an appropriate restraint is fitted in the front of the car, but not the rear, children under 3 years old MUST sit in the front and use that restraint. Remember, many restraints can be fitted in the rear seats (check the manufacturer’s instructions). Rearward-facing seats should always be put in the rear if a front passenger airbag is fitted.

Children Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn if available. If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn.

If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn if available. If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn if available.

If an appropriate restraint or seat belt is fitted in the front of the car, but not in the rear, children between 3 to 11 years old and under 1.5 metres tall MUST use that restraint or seat belt. Remember, many restraints can be fitted in the rear seats (check the manufacturer’s instructions).


Children Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height
If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn if available.


Passengers Over 14 years old
If travelling in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn if available

For more information in Car Safety see here (http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/incarsafety/index.htm)

Well the first part says that any children under 14 must be correctly strapped in. If not then the driver could be prosecuted. This would prevent any children being "held" in the car as they are not properly restrained.

You're right.

Again, like the animals post I made today too, I've seen this a few times lately, women in the back, or front of a car with infants (one was a tiny little baby) just being held as they drove along. Hate to see it.

:(

Damn, that's poor:

"CHILD under 3 years of age

FRONT SEAT:
Appropriate child restraint MUST be worn

REAR SEAT:
Appropriate child restraint MUST be worn if available"

So if I don't fit the car seat, I can just have Alfie free in the back? That's just plain wrong. :( I think the law needs sorting on this as from what I've seen some people are too stupid to look after their own children and could do with some legal encouragement.

:(

Paul you are misinterpreting what this is saying. It would still be illegal to put Alfie in the back of your car without the regular seatbelt around him if your car is fitted with rear belts.

This part of the law ensures this...

"The driver MUST ensure that all children under 14 years of age wear seat belts or sit in an approved child restraint. This should be a baby seat, child seat, booster seat or booster cushion appropriate to the child's weight and size, fitted to the manufacturer's instructions."

So basically if a child restraint is available you must use it. If not you must use the regualar seat belt, if fitted.

I believe it should be changed though to appropriate child restraint front and rear.

I got that when you reposted. Can't believe how many I've seen lately who are ignoring this and the safety of their kids though. :(

I guess speed cameras aren't so good at spotting this type of thing as the good old fashioned traffic cops they seem to be replacing.

To be honest Paul you really would hope that this wouldn't require any law to enforce it. I haven't got any kids myself but I am always conscious of ensuring that my passengers, children or otherwise use their seatbelts. It's not just for their safety, it's for your own.

Sadly common sense seems to be sorely lacking in some of our population :rolleyes:

You'd have thought it was obvious wouldn't you, but I was concerned that people, IF spotted, would get away with it.

You'd have thought it was obvious wouldn't you, but I was concerned that people, IF spotted, would get away with it.
to some they really don't think, they see the price of a car seat, and either don't buy it, or don't control the child in the car:(

Its not normally until an accident and its too late then they think about it:(

My kids were worth far more than ANY fitting costs when they were young.

Actually they still are now that they are in their twenties!

Makes you wonder what kind of person values their own children so little.

Not legal anywhere in the US, but the exact rules vary by state. I think it's generally under age 4 or under a certain weight.

Actually there is a grey area for taxis. They're exempt from most child car seat laws and you only need to restrain a baby with an adult seatbelt. :rolleyes: Crazy but that's da law. If there are more passengers than seatbelts then the extra passengers can be unbelted or if it's not practical to use the belts with the extra passengers then you don't have to use them (mainly applies to older cars).

(mainly applies to older cars).

True....my old Landy had no seat belts ....but having said that, the kids didnt ride in it :D thats what the "if available" clause covers, I thought??

there is a change in law this year from September, I'll try and dig out the details tomorrow:)

I was the meanie who called the local cops about a woman who let her child jump around in her backseat. Got tired of seeing her at our local coffeeshop talking on her cellphone with her kid unrestrained. Apparently it's quite a pricey ticket. She was complaining to a barista that it was $400!! I hope so. Maybe now she'll watch after her kid!

the new law that is coming in here in September basically states that ALL children up the height of 135cm MUST be restrained in the correct child restraint for their size/weight/age.

So basically car seats must be used by law up to they are suitable to use an adult seat belt.

In Australia it is the law that all passengers wear seatbelts. Children must be restrained in the appropriate child seat / booster seat and I believe children under the age of 12 are not allowed to sit in the front seat at all, unless the car is only a two seater. Baby capsules rearward facing or forward facing are not allowed in the front where an airbag is situated.

The taxi exemption that was mentioned earlier reminds me of an incident where my wife and I tried to get a taxi, but due to a cargo barrier in the back, it would not allow for our baby seat to be secured properly. The taxi driver almost begged us to turn a blind eye to the fact our 12mth old daughter would not be securely strapped in, but we told him to naff off and went to the next taxi in the rank who was more than happy to accommodate us.

There should be more reporting of this kind of dangerous driving. Kids and animals roaming around in the car should receive an immediate fine and severe punishment from the police.

Dutchy.

A 10 kilogramme child unbelted in a car crashing at 30kph hits the seat / occupant / windscreen with a force of 300kg.

Nuff said I think!

Catflap

Put them in the boot its less distracting