it would be all over the media - indeed, it won't be long I'd say till it will make its way to other car forums.

The amount of bad publicity MINI and BMW will reap by procrastinating on this will be unprecedented I expect. they need to close this problem down before it takes on a life of its own.

Burying their heads in the sand just won't work in this instance.

I'd say it wouldnt take long either, you think how many people read this site, how many potential buyers, and also how many 'MINI' people (employees i mean).

To me its like the 'BMW' side is beginning to show :rolleyes:

When I traded my immaculate 2 year old VW Passatt in against my current S the dealer would only give me 10K for the VW, when I pushed for more the reply was they are just lumps of metal to us.........Nice :nice:

The bit I am missing is how in Paul's case there is a inherrant problem/noise with the steering that they cannot resolve. That's alone is a lemon cause. The vehicle is not performing as intended, at this time cannot be fixed and warranty obligations to fix it cannot be fulfilled.

What guts me is this is steering (aka possible serious safety issue) we are talking about. What needs to happen before they take notice, a dozen R56 MINI's driving off the road and into the ditch and canals?

No wonder they delayed launching the new model in North America. Can't wait for sue happy U..S....of A to get a load of this customer service rubbish.

The bit I am missing is how in Paul's case there is a inherrant problem/noise with the steering that they cannot resolve. That's alone is a lemon cause. The vehicle is not performing as intended, at this time cannot be fixed and warranty obligations to fix it cannot be fulfilled.

What guts me is this is steering (aka possible serious safety issue) we are talking about. What needs to happen before they take notice, a dozen R56 MINI's driving off the road and into the ditch and canals?

No wonder they delayed launching the new model in North America. Can't wait for sue happy U..S....of A to get a load of this customer service rubbish.
I think manufacturers are more careful with North America - look at the way the increased the warranty to 10 years on the troublesome Mini airbag system, while we stuck with 3. Volvo did the same on common faulty parts
Another case brewing - look here http://www.newminiscotland.co.uk/snitzforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10994

thanks for the exposure Mikey.... (I'm known on here as craigd ;) )

it does seem like MINI has released the model before it was "fit for purpose" and we as the consumer are asked to "test" it for the manufacturer....

they all know that we will tell them about problems and thus they have the feedback they want before more cars hit the dealers...

It smacks very much of a well known software manufacturer who does the very same thing...;)

we shall see what happens over the next week or so...:(

It smacks very much of a well known software manufacturer who does the very same thing...;) we shall see what happens over the next week or so...:(

True, though I doubt anyone has died when their Windows software crashed!:hmph:

Well at least with software you can release patches and updates to clear up the mess at low cost. Somehow i cant see BMW stating "There is a problem, please book your MINI for a replacement Gearbox, Steering Rack" at no cost :D

Theres quite a few unhappy MINI'ers with problems with the R56. Yes its true that new models are prone to a fault or two, but some faults here are fairly major.

I somehwhat understand (but not agree with) BMWs reaction. This thread has 10 pages and has had some interest, IF BMW did replace your S, it would open the floodgates. Companies rarely will accept fault, or even say that are at fault because of the effect it will have on other issues. Such a public debate and complaint is surely going to be a bigger cost, than just replacing your own vehicle.

I assume you recieved a pack stating the procedure about having a lemon vehicle and terms of replacement. My partner bought a Vauxhall Tigra in september 06 and with a welcome letter they explained the procedure about rejecting the vehicle, and made it as clear as possible. They sent this letter to all new purchasers, sure its online somewhere and im sure theres a regulator you can complaint to. If you havent got this information pack ill try and dig it out for you.

Anyway hope it gets resolved for you :D

I think manufacturers are more careful with North America - look at the way the increased the warranty to 10 years on the troublesome Mini airbag system, while we stuck with 3. Volvo did the same on common faulty parts
Another case brewing - look here http://www.newminiscotland.co.uk/snitzforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10994

Can't see the discussion thread. Appears that one has to register to be able to see it.

I'm sure CraigD could quote his post?

In a new thread, not this one please, thanks.

thanks for the exposure Mikey.... (I'm known on here as craigd ;) )

it does seem like MINI has released the model before it was "fit for purpose" and we as the consumer are asked to "test" it for the manufacturer....

they all know that we will tell them about problems and thus they have the feedback they want before more cars hit the dealers...

It smacks very much of a well known software manufacturer who does the very same thing...;)

we shall see what happens over the next week or so...:(
Sorry drag it slightly off sideways, but any product can only be tested so much before it is sold to the consumer, this usually involves statutory testing, test houses, labs, and also consumer user trialing.

No matter how much of this you do with any product, you can still never spot the things that either will vary out of the controls on production, or the things that the general public will do that you didn't expect.

There will always be something that comes up as an unknown or an unexpected issue, but by the end of year of a products life these are worked out of the production.

The issue here is really that the issues are something that exists, that the manufacturer is unable to fix, and that the manufacturer is saying that problems should be expected and that the consumer should live with them;)

Sorry drag it slightly off sideways, but any product can only be tested so much before it is sold to the consumer, this usually involves statutory testing, test houses, labs, and also consumer user trialing.

No matter how much of this you do with any product, you can still never spot the things that either will vary out of the controls on production, or the things that the general public will do that you didn't expect.

There will always be something that comes up as an unknown or an unexpected issue, but by the end of year of a products life these are worked out of the production.

The issue here is really that the issues are something that exists, that the manufacturer is unable to fix, and that the manufacturer is saying that problems should be expected and that the consumer should live with them;)

Fair enough for the odd rattles squeeks etc but not major components which SHOULD have been ironed out before production, I feel for owners who have spent alot of money on their pride and joy and experiencing the types of problems eg PM is having, not acceptable to have misaligned panels, water ingress, noisy gearboxes etc. With my S I accepted minor rattles etc but would not accept the types of probs discussed in this thread.

A suitable test with the defective MINI is to try to part exchange it at a garage with no prior knowledge. Short dialogue: " You want ME to buy THAT? It looks accident damaged, poorly repaired, leaking with dodgy steering? This aint an abandoned dogs home mate. Away with it"

Had another email from MINI who have said, and I quote

I maintain that the majority of the issues you have experienced previously with your MINI have been of a relatively minor nature and hence we would revert to the terms and conditions of the warranty to address these. As I mentioned previously, it is not inconceivable that a fault or faults can develop (and which may not have been present at the point of delivery) at some stage and the very purpose of the warranty is to provide cover against these eventualities.

So folks, just to clarify, a boot that doesn't fit, had mishaped or "bent" hinges from new, and allows water to pour in is a relatively minor fault. I'd agree that the long list of other issues are relatively minor, but that's hardly fitting with what to expect from a new car, as the law puts it "free from minor defects".

Also, it appears they are ignoring the legal fact that in a vehicle under six months old the burden would be on them to prove they were not there from new (because I'm likely to have managed to bend one of those hinges out of shape and not known about it!). It almost seems to imply that the faults were not there when I drove the car away.

Anyway, it goes on, passing me back to the dealer. But it sounds (from my point of view) more positive.

I cannot rule of the possibility of the need to replace the steering rack. On this basis, and taking into consideration the age and mileage of your vehicle, it is appropriate that your supplying dealer, Wollaston, contact you later today to discuss resolving this issue.

So, it sounds more reassuring from my point of view, but I'm not reassured in the least about MINIs customer service or what they expect, and expect us to expect, in terms of the quality of new MINIs.

Wollaston gave a courtesy call and are ringing back tomorrow (not everyone is in today to deal with me/the car).

Paul

I have a habit of repeating myself here and I might have asked already or you have answered but anyway - are you going to get another MCS? Sounds to me like they are going to give you that option.

Also, it appears they are ignoring the legal fact that in a vehicle under six months old the burden would be on them to prove they were not there from new (because I'm likely to have managed to bend one of those hinges out of shape and not known about it!). It almost seems to imply that the faults were not there when I drove the car away.




Isn't it the dealer who is legally responsible for selling a faulty car?

Paul

I have a habit of repeating myself here and I might have asked already or you have answered but anyway - are you going to get another MCS? Sounds to me like they are going to give you that option.


No idea. Pretty much unchanged my opinion from here: http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-faults-fixes/134000-im-currently-without-my-s-due-5.html#post2897935

They've hardly reassured me that they're confident in the product or that MINIs are more likely to be fault free than have faults.

That's what I mean io (may I call you io?), the onus is on the dealer to prove any faults were NOT there if they arrise within 6 months of purchase, not for a buyer to prove they were.

If I end up MINI-less it will be the first time since 2002 that (by choice, and not financial situation) I'll have been without a MINI. :eek:

If I end up MINI-less it will be the first time since 2002 that (by choice, and not financial situation) I'll have been without a MINI. :eek:

Paul, you still have the 2006 MCS around? In your difficult situation, I would try to revert back to a R53 (I know you been there and done that many times) but at least you know what to expect in terms of reliability.

I say, reject the new car, go back to a '05 or '06 and wait a couple of years until MINI sorts out the R56.

You have tremensous faith in MINI and don't seem to have the best luck with them. First year cars are extremely risky and you know that very well from prior experience.

My '05 MCS is paid off, has been a great solid MINI and I still have 2 years left on the factory warranty (4 years/50K miles here in the USA). I have no incentive to trade up. I like the new car for the most part, but I still think the old one looks much better and less goofy.

Hope everything works out for you. We are all closely watching your situation from the other side of the Atlantic.

We are all closely watching your situation from the other side of the Atlantic.

I feel I've "done" the first generation thing. We have a lovely 2002 Cooper S in our care that's a real family member, and less than 12k on the clock (increasing while this drags on though :(). That's part of the reason for my enthusiasm for the new car, I felt I was due a change, the new model seemed to come at the perfect time.

Not closely enough:p

Ok Popey, I forgot I read that yesterday.

How are things going with the rejection on your end?

I would stick with it Paul :) The chances are you will be offered a replacement car and hopefully it will be 100%. As you already have FUN :) would you be as satisfied gettiing a later previous generation than the R56, I think you would always be longing for the new model. It's a tough decision when your confidence has been dented along with MINI's customer support, however there plenty of R56 owners who seem to be loving their new cars with no problems :) The time to give up is if your replacement R56 is a lemming too, which I imagine would be very doubtful. :)

Paul,
I CANNOT believe what I am reading!! Your '07 is clearly a lemon!

I have been considering replacing my 02 Cooper with a 07 MCS but after reading this
thread I think I'll wait a while or consider another car. Maybe a Mazda 3 or a new VW GTI??
My dealer (who has been great) has invited me to a reception for the 2007 model this friday.
I'm tempted to go and make some remarks about this thread.

ARE YOU READING THIS BMW???!!!

Good luck Paul.

If I end up MINI-less it will be the first time since 2002 that (by choice, and not financial situation) I'll have been without a MINI. :eek:

Do they know you bloomin' run this site, you could hold them ransom for a replacement, if that doesn't work you could give damaging publicity:eek:

Maybe some of the duffer car owners should send an email to BBC's watchdog and get them to look into it.
Renault was on a few weeks ago about some faults on the clio and renault ended up sort every single one out.;)

Not every MINI owner comes on this site, so if it does get out to the mass media then we might find the problems could be on a larger scale....hope not though:frown:

Do they know you bloomin' run this site, you could hold them ransom for a replacement, if that doesn't work you could give damaging publicity:eek:

He mentions earlier in the thread that he doesn't want to be treated any differently just because he runs a MINI related website. He wants to be treated like any other customer would and to be honest I don't blame him.

Paul, I've only just found this thread. Sorry to hear about the troubles you've had. I can only hope that your MINI adventure hasn't come to a premature end.

I'd be spitting feathers by now Paul, I don't know how you are restraining yourself:mad:

Hi Paul.

I feel the treatment you have endured is shameful. What on earth is happening to MINI public relations? Don' t they realise they are shooting themselves in the foot big time? I have been lucky, touch wood, that in recent months our 06 Park Lane has behaved itself and our dealership has always been excellent. However, reading this topic makes me wonder if we would risk buying another MINI, when we eventually replace our current car. I love the whole MINI package, but am shocked at current trends in customer relations.

MINI management sort it out. you are loosing credibility and future sales here:mad:

Cheers
Marsh

Paul,
I CANNOT believe what I am reading!! Your '07 is clearly a lemon!

I have been considering replacing my 02 Cooper with a 07 MCS but after reading this
thread I think I'll wait a while or consider another car. Maybe a Mazda 3 or a new VW GTI??
My dealer (who has been great) has invited me to a reception for the 2007 model this friday.
I'm tempted to go and make some remarks about this thread.

ARE YOU READING THIS BMW???!!!

Good luck Paul.

+1.

Mrs. Wingspan is seriously considering a new R56 now that they are arrived in Florida.

I can tell you, we will think twice, and maybe three times about ordering this car considering the information in this discussion thread.

Watching from the U.S. of A.,

wingspan

Had a call from Wollaston MINI.

Offering either reject/refund or a replacement.

Mulling on it. But swaying away from another MINI for a while to be honest.

Had a call from Wollaston MINI.

Offering either reject/refund or a replacement.

Mulling on it. But swaying away from another MINI for a while to be honest.

At least they have done the decent thing. Whichever way you choose to go....