As a member of the smoc {southern mini owners club} there was going to be a run to John Cooper Garages on the 7/9 to test drive the S works.:)

However I had this email from the event organiser last night.:(

BMW now want to launch the
Cooper S Works Worldwide on 1st Jan 2003 and have removed the cars from John
Coopers so no test drive will be available. :(

That's a bummer :(
At least there seems to be some news coming out about the eventuality of the JCW Kit, which is good since i already have a deposit down :) :):D

I have a mini Cooper S Works on order and I called up JCW yesterday. They said that test drive's will be available for people who have put down the deposit sometime in October.

But that will make the wait even more unbearable.

out of interest Leo when is your delivery date and when did you order??

I ordered back in May (I think). and they reckon I should get delivery end of Feb/March.

This hasn't changed even though the release date has been put back. They said BMW are going to make sure they get enough cars to fullfill all their current orders on time (unless you were expecting delivery before Jan - I guess - dunno ? ).

Hi Leo, Welcome to the club. Do you know what number you are on the ever increasing list ?

I put my deposit down a little before Rick, some time in August 2001 :D . Over a year of patiently waiting so far, another few months to wait !

So that makes three of us on MINI2 that have orders. anyone else....

Cheers

Michael

What is really frustrating is I cant even find out what US dealers are going to be authorized?

it is quite frustrating and waiting that long for the unvailing will hurt JCW sales. Im sure others like myself are getting frustrated with the lack of information and the extreamly long waiting periods.

JCW needs to give us a bone. At least have a magazine write a article including real information.

I think I'm 40 something on the list ?

Don't really care as long as it turns up in March.

Toofast,

I'm guessing BMW are still deciding how to Market this in the US, after all it's not released until next year.

The wait is difficult, I should know :rolleyes: . I don't see how the unvailing will hurt JCW ? They could have released it like the Cooper works, quite small, a few magazine articles or they could do what there doing big world wide release with BMW.

I would imagine that 99% of MINI and prospective MINI owners have never heard of JCW. With a big release this number is sure to increase.

If you search some of these forums, you will find certain info has been released. Remeber the Cooper S info was only released to the Press a couple of months before it went to market. Under that assumption, I would guess you might start to see official info in Oct/Nov.

You just know the wait will be worth it :D

Cheers

Michael

I've spoken to John Cooper Garages today about the Cooper S works and these are the power figures the guy there quoted me.


Top Speed is 143 mph
0 to 60 in under 6.5 seconds

Price there still aiming for is £3500 for the kit fitted.

But it looks like that you can have hopefully TLC with this package as there in talks with Bmw about the warranty issues.:)

However I have this unanswered question ratterling inside my head for an 8mph gain and a quicker 0 to 60 is it worth paying £3500 for it.:confused:

Dinger :)

That pricing is outrageous. I wish I could do it, but there's no way. And it's a terrible value for so much.

Spare us the "so don't buy it" replies. That's so obvious.

Im quite certain the kit with installation is worth the $ but not for me the original claims are for 200bhp

If it is possible to get 6-8hp through exhaust, 10-15 through intake, another 1-2 through plug wires etc, and 10 through aftermarket chip that totals 27-35 additional hp through misc bolt ons.

so 163 now = 190 hp for a few 1000 less

add a few lbs more boost and ???

OK so I dont get the warrenty coverage, well I say all can easily be made stock again before bringing to the dealer so thats not an issue.

Currently ecu/chip mods are being explored by hamann, ac schnitzer, gnic, and jim conforti I am quite certain 200 hp can be had for much less money IMHO.

Most of the above mods can already be ordered so JCW in my opinion is loosing sales as we speak!

Well the way i look at it is your not paying £3500 for a 200bhp+ MCS, because the tuning options are out there or soon will be to have that sort of power for half the price. Your paying £3500 to have a 200bhp+ MCS plus a 3 year warranty. If tou take the cheeper option and your engine self destructs you'll be kicking your self for not taking the JCW 'S'. Well worth the money just for the peace of mind IMHO.;)

Originally posted by jester
Well the way i look at it is your not paying £3500 for a 200bhp+ MCS, because the tuning options are out there or soon will be to have that sort of power for half the price. Your paying £3500 to have a 200bhp+ MCS plus a 3 year warranty. If tou take the cheeper option and your engine self destructs you'll be kicking your self for not taking the JCW 'S'. Well worth the money just for the peace of mind IMHO.;)

you are correct my friend however I could probably run nitrous for 3 years and have no problems so what happens after 3 years?

3 years is not a very long time. im quite certain any of the aftermarket mods you do now would not effect the car until much latter in its life.

warranty in my opinion only covers workmanship because you know when the mechanic takes everything apart he wont put it together with the same diligancy I would. if I were doing the mod.

3500 = $5400 usd

Id rather buy another track motorcycle for that amount.

Originally posted by dinger
I've spoken to John Cooper Garages today about the Cooper S works and these are the power figures the guy there quoted me.


Top Speed is 143 mph
0 to 60 in under 6.5 seconds

Price there still aiming for is £3500 for the kit fitted.

But it looks like that you can have hopefully TLC with this package as there in talks with Bmw about the warranty issues.:)

However I have this unanswered question ratterling inside my head for an 8mph gain and a quicker 0 to 60 is it worth paying £3500 for it.:confused:

Dinger :)


Doesn't sound too impressive... it would be nice to know some in gear 50-70mph times etc. to get a true sense of the additional performance.

£3500 is a lot of cash. That kind of money would be better spent on a light weight flywheel/clutch combo, coilovers, light weight wheels/tires, and exhaust and better brakes, IMHO of course. That way the engine would still be relatively stock but the performance would be comparable.

As much as I want a Works S £3,500 is too much money. I know you follow this forum guys, makes it closer to £2,500 and you'll sell a shed load more.;)

Originally posted by M3NTAL Kev



Doesn't sound too impressive... it would be nice to know some in gear 50-70mph times etc. to get a true sense of the additional performance.

£3500 is a lot of cash. That kind of money would be better spent on a light weight flywheel/clutch combo, coilovers, light weight wheels/tires, and exhaust and better brakes, IMHO of course. That way the engine would still be relatively stock but the performance would be comparable.

What he said + exhaust and intake and when Jim conforti finally makes a ecu/chip mod (see Turner motorsports)

If its *only* 200 bhp then that will still put it beyond the power to weight ratio of the Civic Type R, RS Focus and Audi S3 (even the new 225hp S3). All of these cars have 0-60 of about 6.5 secs and top speeds of 145+ so the figures you were quoted by JCW must be very conservative. If the stock S can get to 60 in 6.9 then with an extra 40 odd hp and no changes to the gearbox then this car must be capable of better figures.

Just to confirm badaboom's post, here are the numbers:

Cooper S Works £18000 174bhp/T
Civic Type-R £16000 166bhp/T
Focus RS £20000 165bhp/T
Leon Cupra £17000 156bhp/T
Impreza WRX £21000 158bhp/T

The Works looks reasonable value against all the others, with the exception of the CTR, but personally I wouldn't drive an Espace with less torque than a sewing machine.... :D

Originally posted by plake
but personally I wouldn't drive an Espace with less torque than a sewing machine.... :D
Wise words my friend, wise words ;)

Getting a sense of dejavu again :p

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13375

Cheers

Michael

Just getting real tired of waiting for ANY mods !!!!!!!

Originally posted by toofast
If it is possible to get 6-8hp through exhaust, 10-15 through intake, another 1-2 through plug wires etc, and 10 through aftermarket chip that totals 27-35 additional hp through misc bolt ons.

so 163 now = 190 hp for a few 1000 less

This is a common misconception. People look at the perfomance figures for each individual item, and add them together. If you gain up to 8hp with an exhaust, and up to 15hp with an intake, when you bolt them BOTH on, and dyno your car, it is possible that you only get a 12hp gain. You don't actually get an increase from every thing added. The intake/exhaust is one of them. If the factory engine is choked, you can free up it's breathing, but only to a certain point. Each item makes a difference, but if you gain a wonderful 10hp on the intake, then the exhaust might only give you a marginal increase. That's why you've got to dyno the car if you're serious.

Originally posted by MichaelK
Getting a sense of dejavu again :p

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13375

Cheers

Michael

Yup...Same old, same old. All I can say is "whatever". Until its in the public domain its anyone's guess about anything to do with this car. Frankly personal emails and responses from JCW are all well and good, but unless they have Mike Cooper's signature on the bottom of a legal statement saying this is the TRUTH...then its all more or less hearsay.

As for the money, well everyone has a point where they won't pay beyond. And everyone who doesn't buy it, because of the price, will usually say those that do shell out are stupid!! :o

Oh well, nevermind

:)

Just to add some speculation to the fire here is some interesting info from the Porsche (UK) website:

Boxster S

Cost : 38K+
BHP : 260
Weight : 1395
BHP/ton: 186
0-62 : 5.7

Boxster

Cost : 31K+
BHP : 228
Weight : 1350
BHP/ton: 169
0-62 : 6.4

JCW Cooper S

Cost : 18K+
BHP : 200-210
Weight : 1140 KG
BHP/ton: 175-185
0-62 : ???

All weights are EC standard.

Don't get me wrong I'd still rather have the porsche (if I could afford it) and I do realise that trying to figure out performance based purely on available power is not necessarily a good way of working it out (i.e. there's more to acceleration than just how much power you have!!!) :)

Originally posted by jester
Well the way i look at it is your not paying £3500 for a 200bhp+ MCS, because the tuning options are out there or soon will be to have that sort of power for half the price. Your paying £3500 to have a 200bhp+ MCS plus a 3 year warranty. If tou take the cheeper option and your engine self destructs you'll be kicking your self for not taking the JCW 'S'. Well worth the money just for the peace of mind IMHO.;)
The digi-tech upgrade for euro 1,250 (GPB 770!!!), which I'm leaning to at the moment, includes a warranty on the engine and drive train/transmission for 1 year or 100.000 kms. I'll drive about 25.000 kms a year so that gives me a 4 year warranty :)

I'd expect that's 1 year or 100,000km, whichever comes first. Unless of course, you're being sarcastic ;)

Dom

Not sure of the relevance of the Boxster figures with regard to 0-60 times - it has a rear weight bias under acceleration and is lower geared so is going to be faster off the line. And how relevant 0-60 times are at all in fact: the stock MCS isn't THAT great on a 0-60 run compared with, say, a Clio Cup or CTR, but the Cooper S absolutely FLIES between gears. Given that I spend more time overtaking slower cars (er, most cars...) than cooking my clutch on standing starts, the in gear times will be the ones I am interested in. As will be the torque delivery, which will tell me a little more about how it will drive than the peak power figure.

As for what I will pay Mr Cooper: well, more that I would someone who will invalidate my warranty and TLC. There won't be a Cooper S JCW at £18k because virtually no-one has specified a standard car - mine for one will come out at £20k, same as a Focus RS. And I know which I'd rather have... :D

Originally posted by Dom
I'd expect that's 1 year or 100,000km, whichever comes first. Unless of course, you're being sarcastic ;)

Dom
Errrrr.....obviously I was sarcastic.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

No I wasn't and you're probably right Dom so forget about that post, I'd better stick to the off topic and banter forum....;) :D

Originally posted by toofast
Im quite certain the kit with installation is worth the $ but not for me the original claims are for 200bhp

If it is possible to get 6-8hp through exhaust, 10-15 through intake, another 1-2 through plug wires etc, and 10 through aftermarket chip that totals 27-35 additional hp through misc bolt ons.

so 163 now = 190 hp for a few 1000 less

add a few lbs more boost and ???

OK so I dont get the warrenty coverage, well I say all can easily be made stock again before bringing to the dealer so thats not an issue.

Currently ecu/chip mods are being explored by hamann, ac schnitzer, gnic, and jim conforti I am quite certain 200 hp can be had for much less money IMHO.

Most of the above mods can already be ordered so JCW in my opinion is loosing sales as we speak!

Actually Jim Conforti has not yet got his hands on a MINI and the Doug from Turner Motorsports told me today that they won't be doing while for a while anyway as there isn't enough MINIs out there for it to be cost effective yet. He said next year as there becomes more MINIs on the road they would reevaluate if it is feasible.