I had mine done 3 days ago. The first thing I noticed was a louder exhaust sound and the supercharger whine is more prominent in the lower revs. The surging is almost gone. You really have to be looking for it to notice it. Smoother power in lower gear, I chirp my tires less now. Best of all starts first time. My car used to take 3 or 4 times.

I haven't taken mine in for the upgrade yet and it did begin the cold start problem at about 2500 miles. Until I can get it in for the upgrade, I just turn the key to the position just before the starter turns over and leave it there until the pinger stops pinging (about 10 or 15 seconds) then start it right up. It's worked every time so far (about 2 weeks worth).

Still going to do the upgrade so maybe the pulse action will stop. Sometimes it's there, other times it's not so noticeable.

Originally posted by cooper4us
The software fix is suppossed to address the following issues:

- "sluggish engine response in 1st gear"
- "cold start problem"
- "engine stumbling/stalling in hot weather when coming to a stop/at idle RPMs"

It is mostly aimed at the Cooper 'S' but regular Cooper owners have also experienced similar problems.

Check with your dealer to see if your car needs to receive the ECU upgrade. Also if you are either experiencing the problem or have a build older than July 2002, should consider getting the fix downloaded in your car.

Just had the ECU upgrade on my MCS (5/02 Production) done yesterday. Pleased to report that the car started immediately this morning! :)

The upgrade did not however eliminated the surging problem "yo-yo" acceleration in 2nd gear passing 3,000RPM. There is an improvement, but unfortunately it is still there. :(

Servicing dealer is aware of the surging problem on MCS and made this remark on job order: "Vehicle characteristic known with Cooper S. Will keep customer updated if any new info comes to my attention. Performed DIS Test to check faults - No faults in vehicle".

Regarding reports on increase in power after ECU upgrade, I felt otherwise. No more sluggish response in 1st gear and power feels more linear, but throttle response seems slower, but smoother. :( Also exhaust note sounds more muffled as if the fuel mixture is now richer. Previously, the exhaust sounds much louder and throttle response is a lot more crisp. Just my observations for now.

Will report any further changes.

I had it done and the only thing that is better is the start up,it still as the surging,and to me the car does not run any better i think mine ran better in the lower RPM's before,but i think it pulls better in the higher revs now.Who knows

Originally posted by kshapiro
Well...this morning she started on the first try. Maybe I didn't hold the key over long enough yesterday...we'll see.

This morning she started on the first try, and then died. Don't know what to think.

I had the ECU software done at Princeton MINI on Friday and after two days and almost 300 miles of driving mixed from flinging around corners to suburban "go-ferring" to Interstate cruising to 100+ MPH sprints, my impression is the cold start problem is cleared up without hurting overall performance, although I have to qualify that with ambient temps have been hovering in the low to mid 60's. I'll know more in a day or two when we're forecast to get our first real frost.

While the cold start problem seems fixed, I still experience something like roughness or surging from about 2500 to 3500 RPM under moderate acceleration. Under flat out, pedal stuffed into the floor acceleration the car is strong and winds up quite satisfyingly. Engine braking and gearing down don't produce the effect. I suspect the computer is still in need of some advice on how to set the throttle, etc.

I just had Long Beach MINI install the new software from CD 31 ... Interestingly enough, the repair ticket said, "Data Not Satisfactory."

Obviously, I won't be able to tell if the new software works until tomorrow morning, but the infamous surging in 2nd gear between 2,500 - 3,500 RPM seemed less pronounced (but not completely eliminated), and overall, it seemed that the car accelerated a little smoother and easier on the drive back from the dealer.

We'll see tomorrow ...

DS MCS-w-sport & premium packages, white roof & mirrors and xenons, black & lapis blue leather and clear bra; and

Yellow CVT Cooper-w-white roof & mirrors, sport package, xenons, 16" 5 star alloys and clear bra.

Had the software upgraded today so i will find out in the morning if it works. the car seems to run alot smoother since they did it.it also got rid of the pulsating feeling in 1st and 2nd gear.

Originally posted by suprchrgdmini
Had the software upgraded today so i will find out in the morning if it works. the car seems to run alot smoother since they did it.it also got rid of the pulsating feeling in 1st and 2nd gear.

It got rid of my cars pulsing feeling too, but only for the first drive(going home). When I drove it about an hour later it started up again.

Started right up the first time this morning. I drove the car all day today and the surging, while still present to a minor extent, is considerably reduced. I can certainly live with it. All in all ... a major improvement.

DS MCS-w-sport & premium packages, white roof & mirrors and xenons, black & lapis blue leather and clear bra; and

Yellow CVT Cooper-w-white roof & mirrors, sport package, xenons, 16" 5 star alloys and clear bra.

Bill

While morning temps haven't hit freezing yet, they have dropped appreciably and my MCS starts up on the first try every time now. The surging, albeit reduced, seems to come and go although it's hard to know if I'm somehow driving around the problem or conditions have changed or...?

I wonder if the "cold start" issue will actually fade without a fix as the temps get colder. "Cold Start" has really been used to denote that the engine has been sitting for a while and has fully cooled to ambient temperature, not neccesarily(sp?) denoting starting on a cold day. Usually the fuel mix is made pretty rich for starting in cold environments. It's those in between temps that are tough for sensors and computers to decide what they should be doing. :confused: I think the worst case would be a 70-80deg F start.

Mark - don't have mine yet, watching the boards till the bugs seem pretty ironed out. This and the surging seem like the biggest most common bug right now.

:) Took my MCS Dk Silver Whiteroof May build 4,000 mile+ into Keeler Motors for the software fix. Always took 3-4 tries to get engine to start every time. With software change Cold start problem over last 4 days absolutely gone. Our local temps have been cold too 40 degrees or less im morning.

Surging yoyoing problem minimized, bottom end power seems improved . Other issues address in my service visit were: 1) Rear Latch fix, although duck tape around the latch took care of that the first week I had it, 2) Air Bag Indicator light reset it was in the constant on mode for over a month, thier comment was something in the sensor might have triggered it if it returns bring it back 3) Had Xenon headlights height level adjusted, wonderful improvement in low beam visibility recommedn all to have dealer check factory setting. 4) Had adjustment made to gear linkage, 1st to 2nd always had a clunk sound especially when cool. Dealer claims adjusted linkage, seems improved but not silky smooth like rest of gears.

Keeler had 4 MCS's ready for pick up a beautiful Dk Green, Black roof tan leather, Couple of Dk Silvers and Red. Hope to see you all out there soon.

Happy Motoring Paul C. NY

Originally posted by pkowski
:) Took my MCS Dk Silver Whiteroof May build 4,000 mile+ into Keeler Motors for the software fix. Always took 3-4 tries to get engine to start every time. With software change Cold start problem over last 4 days absolutely gone. Our local temps have been cold too 40 degrees or less im morning.

Surging yoyoing problem minimized, bottom end power seems improved . Other issues address in my service visit were: 1) Rear Latch fix, although duck tape around the latch took care of that the first week I had it, 2) Air Bag Indicator light reset it was in the constant on mode for over a month, thier comment was something in the sensor might have triggered it if it returns bring it back 3) Had Xenon headlights height level adjusted, wonderful improvement in low beam visibility recommedn all to have dealer check factory setting. 4) Had adjustment made to gear linkage, 1st to 2nd always had a clunk sound especially when cool. Dealer claims adjusted linkage, seems improved but not silky smooth like rest of gears.

Keeler had 4 MCS's ready for pick up a beautiful Dk Green, Black roof tan leather, Couple of Dk Silvers and Red. Hope to see you all out there soon.

Happy Motoring Paul C. NY


Hmmmm...tan leather on a MCS? Is this a new 2003 option?

Originally posted by kshapiro


This morning she started on the first try, and then died. Don't know what to think.

Judging from your previous posts, and this one, I reckon the software didn't install properly. If your handy to your dealer, I would suggest asking them to try again.

The difference to my car is so profound, I'm still stunned. Cold start has dissapeared, and improvements in the whole smoothness and power is simply amazing.

If anyone who has had the surge/yo-yo and lack of power from a standing start etc, got the software upgrade, and havn't noticed any difference, it needs to be done again. There is absolutely no way you could not notice the difference.

I'm trying to find out exactly what the software was they used on my car and which CD it was off, just in case it's a newer version.

Cheers

:)

The latest version is "Diagnosis Program Disc 32"
Same for the coding and programming disc..version 32.
33 comming soon!

This is the information passed onto me from my Dealer:

"The engine management system known as digital motor electronics (DME) was reprogrammed using the GT-1 (group tester 1).The programing was the original factory one but with the addition of clearing all the adapted
values."

Mean anything to anybody ?


:confused:

Originally posted by Basil
This is the information passed onto me from my Dealer:

"The engine management system known as digital motor electronics (DME) was reprogrammed using the GT-1 (group tester 1).The programing was the original factory one but with the addition of clearing all the adapted
values."

Mean anything to anybody ?


:confused:

Hi all, I'm, back after a long break of posting- works been busy. So has the wife in the S - 9000 miles now...

As I have posted before I am a engineer who was involved in the calibration and development of the engines of both mini's.

The stalling on the S is due to the calibration work not being performed (or verified) on low volatile (RVP) fuel.

Throughout the year the gas/petrol companies change the volatility of the fuel at the pumps to suit the climatic changes.

The goal is to not have a fuel too volatile that it boils to soon - thus causing stalls after a hot 'soaking' period with the engine off (e.g. in 90 degree heat in full sun in a parking lot for 2 hours); and not to have one too low-volatile that it doesn't vapourise enough to combust in a cold (e.g. 20degC engine temperature after an overnight cool-down in your garage).

The RVP volatitilty changes weekly in the USA (I imagine the change may be a bit slower in the UK).

I have suffered from the cold-start stall since mid-June when I collected my S. It is only this past week that the stalling has all but vanished - the important change is that the temperatures have plumitted from the 70's to mid-40's and the gas stations have followed suit by selling higher volatility fuel - which has more enthusiasm to combust!


It is important to note that Octane has NOTHING to do with the ability to start a car - it is purely a measure of the fuel's ability to resist knocking/pinging. The higher the Octane the more ignition advance can be applied before knock/ping is encountered - and thus more torque/power can be gained.

I did get my hands on the supposed 'fix' software and compared it to existing software. Here is the deal:

- the software was the same version
- the calibration was different

The change in the calibration was to increase the afterstart fuelling - unfortunately it didn't seem to work, and the EPA didn't apparently accept it (more likely CARB as well as EPA). My dealer adimitted to me that there was a fix and that it didn't work so they are not offering it until a new fix comes along.

If you want to know what software/ calibration you have, you can go to Autozone (or anyone with a generic scan tool) for free and ask them to do a Mode 9 on their test tool - this will get you the software an calibration numbers.

Yo-Yo-ing is caused by an issue in the torque-structure calibration where pedal angle and engine speed give a requested torque - this is clearly badly calibrated. It wasn't fixed in the calibration I checked.

The only other thing that changed in the calibration I sawe was to do with an O2 sensor diagnostic.

The revs hanging up in gearchanges sounds like a calibration issue - it sounds like:
1) they may have lengthened the time before cutting fuel off when driver releases the pedal - certainly not a a mini attribute.
2) they may have lengthened the torque transient at deceleration (pedal off) - again not a mini attribute.


The last guy mentioned "The programing was the original factory one but with the addition of clearing all the adapted values."
This is simply clearing fuel and torque adaptions which are learnt as a car ages. The idea is to adapt fuelling and spark etc. to the engine as parts wear, or because they are away form 'nominal'.

When you have a calibration updated it is good practice to clear the adaptive memory and let it learn again with the new calibration - the old values may adversely affect the performance of the new cal. Learning is fairly quick and continuous.

The update done at Princeton MINI a couple of weeks back definitely cured the cold start problem. I haven't experienced problems with throttle hang-up or lag, even when throwing my MINI around corners while holding approximately 6000 RPM (lots of gear jammin'!). OTOH, the stumble seen from about 2500 to 3500 under moderate acceleration has gotten distinctly worse.

Referring back to foxcasper's comments about fuel formulations changing regularly, I typically buy gas once or twice a week and only after the tank is down to about 1/4 full. This should make for a fairly good turnover of fuel which would assure the new formulation shouldn't be masked by old lots of fuel.

obehave the adaption values have to be cleared via the diagnosic machine...GT1 OR DIS MACHINE

obehave the adaption values have to be cleared via the diagnosic machine...GT1 OR DIS MACHINE

Following up on Here2help's comment quoted above, are these machines MINI specific or are they generic machines that one might hope to find in a well-equipped repair shop? Assuming they aren't MINI-only tools and I can find someone who has one, where can I find out how use the computer on a MINI?

These are specific diagnositic machines which are for BMW AND MINI only...the DIS machine cost £42.000..GT1 around £2-4.000

Originally posted by foxcasper


Hi all, I'm, back after a long break of posting- works been busy. So has the wife in the S - 9000 miles now...



foxcasper,

Many, many thanks indeed for your post above. I hope that BMW continue with development with the calibration to get rid of the yo-yo completely. As it is, clearing the values has completely change the character of my S, and I am well pleased with the result.

Thanks' again for an excellent explainatory post.

:)

<sound of applause>

Thank you foxcasper & here2help for your informed contributions. Much appreciated by people round here :)

foxcasper wrote:

- the software was the same version
- the calibration was different

The change in the calibration was to increase the afterstart fuelling - unfortunately it didn't seem to work, and the EPA didn't apparently accept it (more likely CARB as well as EPA). My dealer adimitted to me that there was a fix and that it didn't work so they are not offering it until a new fix comes along.


I don't understand. If the sotware was the same and the calibration was rejected by CARB/EPA, does it mean that that "fix" I just got only cleared the adaptive values? Or do some dealers still install the "new" software despite the rejction? Help!

btw, a great big thanks to foxcasper and here2help for sharing their invaulable knowledge with sincerity and absolute lack of arrogance!

Originally posted by NYCguy


I don't understand. If the sotware was the same and the calibration was rejected by CARB/EPA, does it mean that that "fix" I just got only cleared the adaptive values? Or do some dealers still install the "new" software despite the rejction? Help!

btw, a great big thanks to foxcasper and here2help for sharing their invaulable knowledge with sincerity and absolute lack of arrogance!

Hello - I hope that was a compliment at the end of the post !? :confused:

CARB/EPA certification is an uncertain, but supposedly regualted process. However the introduction of 'rolling changes' to calibrations/software is often dealt with on a case by case basis by the regulatory bodies. even if the s/w/ cal has no emissions impact on the FTP driving cycle, the software is still unique and will have a different part number and checksum - these have to be recorded and approved by CARB as well.

So its a bit chicken and egg -what comes first the fix or the approval..

My experience that its a very much gentlemans agreement type of thing...

DITTO FOXCASPER WITH THE END OF POST BIT...???

Originally posted by here2help
The latest version is "Diagnosis Program Disc 32"
Same for the coding and programming disc..version 32.
33 comming soon!

Has CD #32 been released already to US MINI dealerships??

I was told about a month ago by my dealer that CD #32 was to be available first week of November 2002.

CD#31 Was released first week of October 2002.

Does anyone happen to have more infor on the changes/fixes added to CD#32?

Thanks.

foxcasper and here2help

I wrote
btw, a great big thanks to foxcasper and here2help for sharing their invaulable knowledge with sincerity and absolute lack of arrogance!

This was totally meant genuinely. I think you guys are great. Sadly, some people with a little bit of knowledge become arrogant and disdainful.

I think your desire to really help and inform the rest of us is very refreshing and truly helpful. :)

I got the ecu update and the cold start problem is gone. Admittedly, the temperature in NY has dropped quite a bit and this may help but my MCS started on first try since i picked it up from the dealer 5 days ago.

The low end power seems to be a bit smoother but I'm not sure. It could just be me learning to feed the power better. Othe than that, the car seems the same as ever.

Oh by the way, the rough idling and stalling was attributed to a faulty throttle valve assembly and they replaced that as well with good effect.