BMW and Fiat have announced a technical alliance, including platform sharing for the Punto & MINI

Autocar - BMW and Fiat confirm technical alliance (http://www.autocarmagazine.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/233783/)

Insert doom & gloom comments below!

why. The only weak link in the Fiat brand is the delaer and that has always been the case. The engines they develope are some of the best in the world. look at all the JTD's They are also a pioneer in the Camless Pneumatic valve tecnology which is going to reshape the petrol engine for years to come. The chassis is great, when was the last time you drove a Fiat.

To be honest the idea of merging with FIAT seems a better idea than the previous merge with PSA. Also i suppose you are aware they have a twin turbo 1.9 JTD engine in the new lancia delta which would easily drop in the mini, its 190 bhp stnadard and would make a very nice Dooper JCW.

It sounds great tie up to me. Oh and dare i mention the amount of technology FIAT borrow from Maserati and ferrari.

I don't think I have a problem with it, but I reckon some MINI fans might!

Though if the next Mito drives just like a MINI (the current one doesn't apparently) I have always fancied an Alfa....

I was a bit shocked at first, but to be honest I wouldnt touch anything from the Peugot Citroen group with a barge pole.
So why not, that Mito looks like kak though as does the 8c despite being a TVR rip off and it would not be built very well. Were running the repmobile sized Alfa at work and well... its an Alfa
It eats tyres is poor on fuel loves the garage, damn site more fun than a Peugot 407 though.

Read this in Automotive News and I think it's an interesting one. Perhaps BMWs reputation for reliability and chassis tuning will boost FIAT and Alfa, perhaps it will turn out the other way around. Be interesting to watch though.

MINI on a shared platform though, might mean a lot of negative vibes from people.

MINI on a shared platform though, might mean a lot of negative vibes from people.
Surely not? :eek:

:p

Grande Punto is a fine car on a fine chassis :) Not all doom and gloom at all!

Grande Punto is a fine car on a fine chassis :)
I'll second that :D

I've had a Sporting for 3 months now and it's a great little car :nice:

must admit to liking the Alfa Mito and Grande Punto - Ive owned a few Fiats in the past (Uno Turbos) and must have been one of the lucky ones coz mine were reliable (a lot more reliable than my MINIs :aargh:)

must admit to liking the Alfa Mito and Grande Punto - Ive owned a few Fiats in the past (Uno Turbos) and must have been one of the lucky ones coz mine were reliable (a lot more reliable than my MINIs :aargh:)

I'll reserve judgment on the MiTo until I see it at the London Motorshow this month. The rear end so far looks great, not too keen on the front, but in the flesh will help :)

The Alfa I'd buy is...

http://www.autolusso.co.uk/images/159/red_tan_front.jpg

Just make it back, and make sure it has a V6 (has my wheels and interior)...

Oh god not again :o:o:o:p

Not quite a MINI I grant, but what a stunning looking car :eek:

The MINI chassis is perfect anyway - why change it?

The MINI chassis is perfect anyway - why change it?
Cost

Progress. :)

BMW and Fiat have announced a technical alliance, including platform sharing for the Punto & MINI

Autocar - BMW and Fiat confirm technical alliance (http://www.autocarmagazine.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/233783/)

Insert doom & gloom comments below!

The Grande Punto itself already shares it's chassis with.............


the current model Vauxhall Corsa :rolleyes:

The Grande Punto itself already shares it's chassis with.............


the current model Vauxhall Corsa :rolleyes:
Fiat have already started severing their ties with GM.

Cost

Would it save money though - they would still have to buy the chassis off Fiat, and then transport then from Italy. Apart from that, BMW said that they were making engines in the UK to make the car 100% British (or as near as you can go with them as owners:rolleyes:), so sharing a chassis with a Punto isn't the way to achieve this! Still if they pass the savings on to us I'm happy!

Why are you assuming that MINI will be 'buying' anything from Fiat? :confused:

The current engine-share with PSA doesn't mean either company is buying anything from the other. They co-developed the engine, and now each build their own in their own factories.

And '100% British' merely means assembled in Britain. Very few, if any, of the components used are of British origin.

Apart from that, BMW said that they were making engines in the UK to make the car 100% British.

Never seen or heard them make that statement. They do talk about the "production triangle" and support for the UK manufacturing industry etc, but I don't think they would dare say what you just did. :eek:

As Scrogg says too, co-operation is often about sharing development and tooling costs, as well as some manufacturing, plus of course the join buying power and so on. It's all to do with economies of scale.

Why are you assuming that MINI will be 'buying' anything from Fiat? :confused:
Because it is their chassis


The current engine-share with PSA doesn't mean either company is buying anything from the other. They co-developed the engine, and now each build their own in their own factories.

And '100% British' merely means assembled in Britain. Very few, if any, of the components used are of British origin.

Well I know they aren't of British origin - the CD player is made in the Czech republic but I meant the main bits like the pressing of panels. I just don't see why they would want to use the Punto chassis when the one that they have is well respected and a reason why people buy MINIs.

But surely if they were made in different factories, economies of scale wouldn't really work.

At the end of the day, if I wanted a punto, I'd have bought a punto.

Would it save money though - they would still have to buy the chassis off Fiat, and then transport then from Italy. Apart from that, BMW said that they were making engines in the UK to make the car 100% British (or as near as you can go with them as owners:rolleyes:), so sharing a chassis with a Punto isn't the way to achieve this! Still if they pass the savings on to us I'm happy!

yeah, that'll really happen, this is BMW we're talking about :rolleyes:

yeah, that'll really happen, this is BMW we're talking about :rolleyes:

I know - I was being sarcastic! Probably badly though!;)

I just don't see why they would want to use the Punto chassis when the one that they have is well respected and a reason why people buy MINIs.

But surely if they were made in different factories, economies of scale wouldn't really work.

At the end of the day, if I wanted a punto, I'd have bought a punto.

It wouldn't be a case of using "the Punto chassis" any more or less than it's a current case of using the 207 engine. Usually it works out that one company takes the lead in development, then they either co-produce or produce at their own sites.

The cost of development alone is HUGE, so if that's shared, then it's a lot of money saved, and economies of scale work because, as with the PSA/BMW engines now, it adds buying power, so all the bits that go into the chassis are bought for say 600,000 cars a year instead of 300,000.

Because it is their chassis

Have you read the link?

Supplier sources have indicated that the companies will jointly develop a platform to underpin the next Fiat Grande Punto, BMW’s third-generation Mini and the next Alfa Romeo Mito. The move will help both companies cut production costs.

Between them they will work on what will become the next Punto, the next Mini and the next Mito, not use the current version of one of them to make the other 2

Have you read the link?

Supplier sources have indicated that the companies will jointly develop a platform to underpin the next Fiat Grande Punto, BMW’s third-generation Mini and the next Alfa Romeo Mito. The move will help both companies cut production costs.

Between them they will work on what will become the next Punto, the next Mini and the next Mito, not use the current version of one of them to make the other 2

Yes, it says "work together to develop and build new cars..."

Because it is their chassis
Really? :confused:

Where do you get that information from? :confused:

The Press Release seems to say otherwise:

Supplier sources have indicated that the companies will jointly develop a platform to underpin the next Fiat Grande Punto, BMW’s third-generation Mini and the next Alfa Romeo Mito. The move will help both companies cut production costs.

But clearly you know something they don't?

...but I meant the main bits like the pressing of panels.
You mean the ones using Steel sourced from Spain?

I just don't see why they would want to use the Punto chassis when the one that they have is well respected and a reason why people buy MINIs.
Again you're assuming :rolleyes:

The new chassis (or platform as it's now called) will be as good as the current one, as MINI will ensure it is when they co-develop it with Fiat

But surely if they were made in different factories, economies of scale wouldn't really work.
As Paul has just said, the economies of scale come from the sourcing of materials, not the physical production of the cars.

Where do you get that information from? :confused:

Automotive News:

TURIN -- Fiat and BMW today said they plan to cooperate on platforms and components.

BMW brand development head Friedrich Eichiner said in a statement: "We are currently examining with Fiat group possibilities for the joint use of components and systems in Mini and Alfa Romeo vehicles."

The automakers have agreed not to divulge more details of the possible collaboration, a BMW statement said.

Supplier sources told Automotive News Europe that the companies will develop a joint platform that will underpin the next Fiat Grande Punto, BMW's third-generation Mini and the next-generation Alfa Romeo MiTo.

The two companies are considering developing a new family of gasoline and diesel engines, industry sources told ANE.

The BMW statement said Eichiner and Alfredo Altavilla, Fiat's head of business development, have signed a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on architectures and components.

BMW said cooperating with Fiat will help it achieve economies of scale and cost reductions as part of its Number One strategy.

It said the results of its discussions with Fiat will be known by the end of the year.

Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne said: "The proposed cooperation with BMW is a significant cornerstone of our strategy of alliances."

Fiat already has industrial alliances with other carmakers including PSA/Peugeot-Citroen, Suzuki and Tata.

BMW cooperates in Europe with PSA on engine production and the company has a joint venture in China with Brilliance.

Automakers increasingly are cooperating with competitors to reduce investments costs for new models.

Really? :confused:



Where do you get that information from? :confused:


You mean the ones using Steel sourced from Spain?


Again you're assuming :rolleyes:

The new chassis (or platform as it's now called) will be as good as the current one, as MINI will ensure it is when they co-develop it with Fiat


As Paul has just said, the economies of scale come from the sourcing of materials, not the physical production of the cars.

MINI may ensure the chassis is as good but people will always think FIAT. Its like the Jag X Type - just an expensive way of buying a mondeo. Has the same chassis engine but nothing else is e.g. body, interior etc. People still think Mondeo though.

Supplier sources have indicated that the companies will jointly develop a platform to underpin the next Fiat Grande Punto, BMW’s third-generation Mini and the next Alfa Romeo Mito. The move will help both companies cut production costs.

Where do you get that information from? :confused:


Autocar - the link in the 1st post

MINI may ensure the chassis is as good but people will always think FIAT. Its like the Jag X Type - just an expensive way of buying a mondeo. Has the same chassis engine but nothing else is e.g. body, interior etc. People still think Mondeo though.

Just like people say Chrysler Neon about the 1st gen MINI

Automotive News:
Autocar - the link in the 1st post
I meant where does M.O.S get his information from that MINI will be using a Fiat platform.

I know where the bit I quoted comes from, I quoted it! :p

(But I've edited it my post now to make it a bit clearer ;) )