Is there a reason why yet?? HP with no torque.....

it would depend on what your trying to achieve.

I've lapped combe in 1:34 so not that far behind some of the MINI times with 100bhp more than me. Big hp and torque don't always win the race (figuratively speaking;) ) as proved by the likes of caterham and lotus.

A 180bhp NA well set up MINI could be massive fun on track and without the heat issues or the supercharger and forced induction

ive looked at a lot of set ups for my cooper rotex, itb's, turbo in the end i decided to save and buy a westfeild megabusa

only mods the cooper is getting is suspension and brakes Adam is bang right that getting high power out a cooper engine is not worth it esp when you can buy an older S for less and have the say the GTT 220 or similar put on for less in reality

the scope for tuning the s further also makes it worth it having driven a few over the years id much rather have the base of an S and work from there as suddenly 300 becomes quite possible look at the RMW Rotex or the Opcon mini mania have coming

Is there a reason why yet?? HP with no torque.....

It would sound great and be a heck of a lot of fun to thrash it - ok, your standing start wouldn't be great, but once moving you'd have to keep the revs up to keep it in the power zone and it'd be a heck of an engaging drive! :D

ITBs and manifold and fuel rail is £880 , ecu is £860 , a harness needs making up ,and you will lose some functions like dashboard instruments and other functions ,however you do get a traction control system (adjustable) and 4 wheel sensors needed (hall effect) £69 each
the head is £1000 and cam another £200 ,springs needed - rods are £1600 and the crankshaft £2000 , pistons are £750 with rings , oil cooler £165 ,trans cooler is £200 , a s gearbox is required with light fly/clutch ,uprated rad another £ 400 and header tank ,stat,cap needed ,ex manifold and exhaust to add
on top is the labour to build it and mapping - 10000 + rpm and circa 228bhp , down spec some items and limit the rpm and 180 bhp .
any takers ?

Limit the RPM, man? :aargh: Are you mad?! :p The RPM is the whole point of going down this road. ;) :D

So about £9,000-10,000 for parts, plus labour.... that'd be one very special £30,000 Cooper in the end. :cool: An idea to toy with for the future to be sure. :D

for 30k you could have a caterham R500 or 964 911 3.3 turbo light weight

for 30k you could have a caterham R500 or 964 911 3.3 turbo light weight

Never been a fan of Caterhams, really... they look a bit of a pain to drive and many have complained about hitting their elbow on the bodywork when trying to steer - not ideal.

That Porsche sounds enticing, I must admit! Though again, the whole point of this excercise is for natural aspiration and the turbo sort of negates that. ;) I've figured out that a Ferrari 355 Berlinetta (3.5 litre, natural aspiration, 380bhp) can be obtained for around £35,000 or so... but the running costs on that would be considerably higher than anything else mentioned.

caterhams can be quite marmite but for learning how to use power and love of N/A nothing is better imo

could get an even older 911 shell and fit the 4 litre N/A race engine from the 997 GT3 complete with proper bump shifter now thats what i would call fun

a 30k track car is still a lot of expensive scrap when you get it wrong

ive looked at a lot of set ups for my cooper rotex, itb's, turbo in the end i decided to save and buy a westfeild megabusa

only mods the cooper is getting is suspension and brakes Adam is bang right that getting high power out a cooper engine is not worth it esp when you can buy an older S for less and have the say the GTT 220 or similar put on for less in reality

the scope for tuning the s further also makes it worth it having driven a few over the years id much rather have the base of an S and work from there as suddenly 300 becomes quite possible look at the RMW Rotex or the Opcon mini mania have coming

Er... People are close to 300 without the Rotrex or Opcon....

a 30k track car is still a lot of expensive scrap when you get it wrong

Depends what your perspective is, when I was at the 'Ring there was a guy in an R500 Evo, he has a track car in the UK which is a 997 GT3 RSR (Cup Edition), but he refuses to drive his nigh on £100k car on the 'Ring because he can't get definite insurance. He rags it in UK because he's comfortably insured, but he's happy to wreck a £35k R500 Evo at the 'Ring.

It would sound great and be a heck of a lot of fun to thrash it - ok, your standing start wouldn't be great, but once moving you'd have to keep the revs up to keep it in the power zone and it'd be a heck of an engaging drive! :D



Limit the RPM, man? :aargh: Are you mad?! :p The RPM is the whole point of going down this road. ;) :D

So about £9,000-10,000 for parts, plus labour.... that'd be one very special £30,000 Cooper in the end. :cool: An idea to toy with for the future to be sure. :D
I do wonder what the power band would actually be. Still would be interesting to see the dyno graph. :D

Depends what your perspective is, when I was at the 'Ring there was a guy in an R500 Evo, he has a track car in the UK which is a 997 GT3 RSR (Cup Edition), but he refuses to drive his nigh on £100k car on the 'Ring because he can't get definite insurance. He rags it in UK because he's comfortably insured, but he's happy to wreck a £35k R500 Evo at the 'Ring.

most people don't have 30k to spend on one car let alone 135k for 2 track toys.

Theres a big move with the combe regulars to cheap fun tracks by the guys fed up of the cost of damaging their expensive cars. The best regulars drive an old mgb running a NA V8, a frogeye sprite running a 1.8 zetec on carbs and a rake of golf gti's all running throttle bodies. Spend any time at tracks and you'll see plenty of cheap lower powered cars performing as well if not better than more expensive kit. But then the crowds do love to see rich kids with no talent write off expensive stuff.

One of the reasons I don't run the jcw is that my track car is as much fun and can be rebuilt for 2k if anything went wrong

Er... People are close to 300 without the Rotrex or Opcon....

280 ish is the highest ive ever seen and more often on the road its more like 270 which correct me if iim wrong is not 300 with the Rotex and opcon its not just about high end they are both better than the m45 across the range and make more power on less boost = less heat too

use bike itb's and megasquirt ecu and you can knock over £1000 of that, my set up cost £750 fitted and mapped :D
Sounds interesting. Can you tell us more about this? What's your setup? Who did it? How is it done? Any pictures? Have you had it dyno'd?

thats not on his mini i think but another track day car the ITB's are common on VW and ford engined track cars as there are many off the shelf kits

a 30k track car is still a lot of expensive scrap when you get it wrong

Very true!

Depends what your perspective is, when I was at the 'Ring there was a guy in an R500 Evo, he has a track car in the UK which is a 997 GT3 RSR (Cup Edition), but he refuses to drive his nigh on £100k car on the 'Ring because he can't get definite insurance. He rags it in UK because he's comfortably insured, but he's happy to wreck a £35k R500 Evo at the 'Ring.

I'm afraid my perspective is of someone less affluent than your friend there. :p

I do wonder what the power band would actually be. Still would be interesting to see the dyno graph. :D

Yea, I'd love to see that too! :D

280 ish is the highest ive ever seen and more often on the road its more like 270 which correct me if iim wrong is not 300 with the Rotex and opcon its not just about high end they are both better than the m45 across the range and make more power on less boost = less heat too

Very true, it just sounded like you were saying 300 was impossible with the M45. I really don't think it is.

most people don't have 30k to spend on one car let alone 135k for 2 track toys.

Theres a big move with the combe regulars to cheap fun tracks by the guys fed up of the cost of damaging their expensive cars. The best regulars drive an old mgb running a NA V8, a frogeye sprite running a 1.8 zetec on carbs and a rake of golf gti's all running throttle bodies. Spend any time at tracks and you'll see plenty of cheap lower powered cars performing as well if not better than more expensive kit. But then the crowds do love to see rich kids with no talent write off expensive stuff.

One of the reasons I don't run the jcw is that my track car is as much fun and can be rebuilt for 2k if anything went wrong

Oh I 100% agree with the low power thing, hence why I regularly enjoy wiping the smile off people's faces in my classic. I was just being facetious... :P

the main problem with itb's for the mini is there is no direct kit as such for the likes of the golfs and civics and duratec and zetec and vetcs and stuff like the vaxhaull red tops there are bolt on kits all for under 2k that come with a base mapped stand alone ecu and all the gubbinz needed

the main problem with itb's for the mini is there is no direct kit as such for the likes of the golfs and civics and duratec and zetec and vetcs and stuff like the vaxhaull red tops there are bolt on kits all for under 2k that come with a base mapped stand alone ecu and all the gubbinz needed

Is that not what this is? :confused:

...Here's some links:
...
...
...
Hayward Performance (http://haywardperformance.com/intake.htm#mini)


All the best,
Andrew.

Is that not what this is? :confused:



All the best,
Andrew.

that is nothing more than the trumpets and fuel rail and inlet manifold that will bolt to a minis head that is buy no means a kit, it also states its for GT race spec minis because of the work needed its easier as the car will most likely be non road worth after such work

and because it has a throttle cable on top of that you will need a totally new stand alone ECU, as the old one will be useless as its been designed for the minis drive buy wire throttle and the engines sensors will all need to be re wired into the new ECU (emerald, motec etc all of which cost £800+) and then a huge amount of mapping is needed not a normal map but a total ECU map cost 1K or so

this also means the imobleiser and alarm will all need coded again into it and you will lose some functions, all this will also lead to a killer insurance bill

you will also need to route and run the cable in a car thats not got a cable fit a new head to make use of the new flow capacity and then have a cam and manifold matched to this as well

all the above will take the cost of this well past 6K when you consider a bolt on and i mean bolt in for the honda civic is £1800

i looked at ITB's back in 05 for my cooper spoke to a few tuners and installers who have seen the kits for the mini and all said its way to much work for the £ to bhp ratio

Beakers correct the itb's aren't on a MINII, its a ford zetec engine. I've used suzuki GSXR bike itb's, these can be picked up for very little on ebay and are only held together by a long bolt. This makes Add one custom manifold and fuel rails and you just need a ecu. All in my itb set up cost £300 for the manifold itb's and fuel rail.

I'm using megasquirt ecu which is a diy one with a large internet forum for support. This was assembled and fitted by a lad near where I worked and cost £350 for fitting and mapping.

some pics of the itb's
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Markxr130/th_P3240021.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Markxr130/?action=view&current=P3240021.jpg)
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Markxr130/th_P3240017.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Markxr130/?action=view&current=P3240017.jpg)

The rally car that was in modern mini was a cooper S engine with throttle bodies not a cooper.

For the compression can you not skim the head more to change the compression, not sure how much you can do this way, probably not enough to go from forced to NA.

Throttle bodies are'nt exepnsive. EG i have priced up jenvery throttle bodies for my GTI and it works out 1450 all in for the bodies, manifold, injectors and emerald ECU.

Howeverthe mapping is the expensive bit.

The rally car that was in modern mini was a cooper S engine with throttle bodies not a cooper.

For the compression can you not skim the head more to change the compression, not sure how much you can do this way, probably not enough to go from forced to NA.

Throttle bodies are'nt exepnsive. EG i have priced up jenvery throttle bodies for my GTI and it works out 1450 all in for the bodies, manifold, injectors and emerald ECU.

Howeverthe mapping is the expensive bit.

its that the mini needs a bit more work done than most cars to make it worth while (e.g ported head, new manifold running of a throttle cable, making a cam to match them and a proper standalone ecu to link to the cooper is still a while off as look at the mynes one its going to be next year before they even have the s one runnig)

why would you need ported heads to run itbs? or a new cam?

ecu's and mapping do not need to be expensive and Ant if you're looking at emerald ecu Dave does discounted mappping

oh and you could run a new ecu alongside the standard one to maintain normal operation of alarms etc

why would you need ported heads to run itbs? or a new cam?

ecu's and mapping do not need to be expensive and Ant if you're looking at emerald ecu Dave does discounted mappping

cos you aint gonna make any power other wise on the mini ;) more air is not a good thing unless it has somewhere to flow

so the inlet isn't the restriction in MINI;s breathing its the head?

itbs alone on my zetec resolve the restrictive inlet issue but head work isn't needed for anoth 20-30bhp higher

the zetec has the advantage of being a twin cam set up as well the mini is stuck with a very restrictive stock head and single overhead cam

its been proven that with the throttle bodie / inlet mani / air box on the S cam flow over 500 bhp with no issues its the head and stock manifold that are the bottle neck, i know im referencing the S but the coopers are not that much smaller and the head is the same as is the manifold

what does a ported head do to torque? I know flow~hp and tourque~velocity, but i'm not too sure about the dinamics of the air moving inside the head.