Hello everyone, I just want to know if there are any way that I can make the original blow off make more noise or if its better to put a new blow off and how difficult can be,thank you

Hector from Puerto Rico

Lots of ways Hector. You can use a CAI (Cold Air Induction Kit) to make the original Recirc noise louder. You can also use a Forge BOV spacer, but they have been known to cause CEL's in some cars with the more modern Software updates although Forge is bringing out a revised version that wont cause any so may be worth waiting. And if you want to go wild there are a few R56 BOV kits eg. HKS, Exhaust Depot, Alta/Perrin, there are a few more but i cant remember who they are right now. Forge also sell a fully atmospheric DV Kit but you have to call or email them requesting one. If you drop my name he will make up a Kit for you. Other than that i cant think of any more.

Anyone else?

But why would you though. Tiresome on a long journey.

Performance will be reduced as without recirc you are not putting the waste back into the compressor entrance so not spinning up the compressor with the waste like a recirc would.

Each to thier own. I quite like a dump valve. And on a long trip im not really fussed either.

Will decrease the second-hand value of your car as well. People are prepared to pay full money for a perfect example of a good car. One which has been modified is worth either the same or more likely 'LESS' than one which has been left standard.

Everything about an atmospheric dump-valve is inferior. The only thing it does which a re-circ will never do (unless broken) is to hiss and sometimes flutter when boost is vented.

You're right, each to his own, but that applies to all things in all areas of life so not really the end of a discussion.

The fact remains that what you would be choosing would be the inferior option. Just for the sake of hearing a silly noise every time you change gear. If you like the silly noise then that is the choice you have made and then fair enough, each to his own. But as well as the silly noise you will get inferior performance, attention from the police, lower second-hand values if you come to sell and you'd need to pay for the prividledge. What is the cost of an atmo these days? Around £70 for something from Forge?

If you're going to do it... then the most important thing is to make sure the port where the valve attaches is as close to the throttle butterfly as possible. If possible make the hose exit in directly the opposite direction to the throttle opening as that will give the stalled air the best chance of escape.

Will decrease the second-hand value of your car as well. People are prepared to pay full money for a perfect example of a good car. One which has been modified is worth either the same or more likely 'LESS' than one which has been left standard.

Everything about an atmospheric dump-valve is inferior. The only thing it does which a re-circ will never do (unless broken) is to hiss and sometimes flutter when boost is vented.

You're right, each to his own, but that applies to all things in all areas of life so not really the end of a discussion.

The fact remains that what you would be choosing would be the inferior option. Just for the sake of hearing a silly noise every time you change gear. If you like the silly noise then that is the choice you have made and then fair enough, each to his own. But as well as the silly noise you will get inferior performance, attention from the police, lower second-hand values if you come to sell and you'd need to pay for the prividledge. What is the cost of an atmo these days? Around £70 for something from Forge?

If you're going to do it... then the most important thing is to make sure the port where the valve attaches is as close to the throttle butterfly as possible. If possible make the hose exit in directly the opposite direction to the throttle opening as that will give the stalled air the best chance of escape.

Clearly most will just take the Mods off when they sell so theres no point bringing up second hand price issues. And secondly if you think a VTA BOV is bad for performance you've been buying hte weong ones. If you get a BOV properly set up for your car it will do nothing but improve your cars response during shifts. Recirc's are great but they have to vent the charge air somewhere in the intake system causing a momentary boost loss as the turbo will still be under stress. I dont know where you got the idea that putting excess charge air back into the turbo will help spool a turbo quiker, in actual fact that norally what cause the compressor to stall. If you installed my BOV that is a one off that was designed by myself and Forge you will see a huge difference in lag times between 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th and a noticable difference in the rest. The car is so much more responsive between shifts its unbeleivable. Read into why VTA Bov's are used and you mite change your view, specially if you install one on your car that is good.

Maybe you dont like the sound? But it doesn't make a VTA bad.

The waste charge goes back into the compressor intake. As the compressor is spinning in the right direction already putting the waste back into the compressor will lower the pressure in the tube feeding the compressor so less work will be needed to move the compressor wheel. This minimises lag even further and does not cause the wheel to stall. In the first place just venting the charge will prevent the wheel from stalling, then putting it back into the intake again will help the turbo spin between gear changes.

No. You have that all wrong im affraid. I think you made that up. Althought its a good theory, its wrong.

Dump valves are fitted between the turbo intlet and the throttle body. When transitioning from a boosted state to a closed throttle state (as in between shifts), due to inertia, the turbo continues to pressurize air, but the closed throttle prevents the compressed air from entering the engine. In this case the pressure exceeds the preset spring pressure in the dump valve and the excess pressure is bled off to atmosphere.

using a recird though great, the compressed air acts as a brake on the turbo (slowing it down), because the pressure on the backside of the turbo is at a higher pressure than on the front side (and the air actually wants to flow through the turbo backwards).

A blowoff valve is a more elegant solution to this problem by allowing the turbo to "freewheel" when the throttle is closed (equalizing the pressure on both sides of the turbo). Unlike a recirc a blowoff valve can be used at multiple boost settings without reconfiguration.

The waste charge goes back into the compressor intake. As the compressor is spinning in the right direction already putting the waste back into the compressor will lower the pressure in the tube feeding the compressor so less work will be needed to move the compressor wheel. This minimises lag even further and does not cause the wheel to stall. In the first place just venting the charge will prevent the wheel from stalling, then putting it back into the intake again will help the turbo spin between gear changes.

you need to ring mark shead or get off this forum in fact any forum
you do not understand forced induction:angry:why are you not on this
forum www.lancerreggister.com

lee

Hello everyone, I just want to know if there are any way that I can make the original blow off make more noise or if its better to put a new blow off and how difficult can be,thank you

Hector from Puerto Rico

Hector,

Try this place, I bought it from here ( Hector is name of the owner too)


ttp://www.exhaustdepot.net/inbotuhakit.html:D

No. You have that all wrong
im affraid. I think you made that up. Althought its a good theory, its wrong.

This other random guy off the Audi forum (steve o) also shares my theory. It's not really so much of a theory in that case. I'm sure if you search through a few more articles and postings you'd find many more comments to back up my initial assertion.

Like the bit you copied from Wikipedia - put it in quotes next time. Better to acknowledge the source rather than just openly plagiarising like that. Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source but it's ok to quote when in agreement as it can add weight to an argument. There have been a couple of famous incidents where journalists have copied all their details about famous individuals from Wikipedia before then finding out later that the article was a malicious hoax and all the details were wrong. One particular case involved the hoaxed biography of a French Composer written by an Irish sociology student. The so-called 'facts' were printed in many major national newspapers all around the world. :D



A diverting / recirculating valve works one
step better than an atmospheric dump valve by dumping the pressurised air back on the other side (incoming side) of the turbo and in essence helps keep it spinning even more, so after the gear change, the turbo has less work to do again to get up to pressure / wind up.The Audi TT Forum • View topic - What benefits do dump valves actually have? recirc + atmos (http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138783&start=0)

Honestly mate, you haven't got a clue. Just because a few other people agree on your pathetic made up theory doesn't make it right. A dump valve or Bov were made because they are better than a diverter. The reason a diverter isn't used my manufacturers is the fact that not everyone wants the noise. A diverter throws terbulant air into your compressor, the air could be going either direction to the compressor wheel, either way it hits the wheel it will cause negative affects on the wheel thus slowing it down causing it to have to respool upon each vent. In some cases a recirc may be better depending on application, but that said its not for the reason you are saying what so ever.

I dont know why you hvae come onto a Forum starting an arguement with people that obviously know more than you. Your talking rubbish and trying to make people believe it. Speak to any Turbo specialist and they will tell you the huge benefits of a BOV or Dump Valve over a recirc. Try calling Turbotechniks or somewhere like that as they will put you in your place.

There's no proof coming from your side either. So who's right then?

I've dealt with Turbotechnics in the past. Toured the factory/workshop and had them build me a turbo according to my specifications. They're nice guys but they deal specifically with the turbo and don't like to get involved in the peripherals.

You keep going on about Lancer forum so I joined and posted asking the question about recirc helping or stalling the compressor when it vents back into the intake. I setup a poll as well.

Does it or doesn't it - recirc question - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=274939)

At present 3/4 agree with me and 1/4 are on your side.

I contacted Forge and the tech guy said whoever told you it would stall or interupt the compressor by dumping back into the intake may have had a few too many to drink... his words, not mine!

The proofing coming from my side is thousands of tuning companies making Dump Valves and Bov's as they work. Speak to any Turbo specialist like i said and you will know why im right. Your thoery is made up. It makes sense but thats not how it works.

I never said a word about Lancer Forum so i dont know what your on about there. But the second post throws your thoery of helping to spool the turbo straight out the window and not one person has actually agreed that the air goes in and helps spin the Compressor.

Its funny you say that about the guy at Forge. His name is John. He is a good friend of mine. Me and him developed the R56 Dump Valve and Vacuum source block together, and its funny that i spoke to him today regarding a few things and told him of your thoery and he said your nuts if you think air wont go in every direction and cause turbulance. What he is saying is his Recirc wont do that because its correctly set up and only allows a small amount of air to be recirced, the rest is dumped but still in most cases a BOV will do alot more in turbo applications than a recirc. Think about this for instance. If hot air that has been through the induction system is vented back into the hot turbo, what will the temperature do? Get hotter also causing power loss, so there another reason VTA is better. VTA's were created because they are better.

And your pretty much a hypocrite considering its actually you that is arguing black is white not me. Im not saying Recirc a crap and im not saying in some applications they work better but what i am saying is that your thoery that air re-enters the turbo in an orderly fashion and aid turbo spool.

Alright, I give up...

The point of public discussion is for lots of people to be able to see the conversation. So as I've said my bit and you've said yours... unless you have anything else to say then it is up to the reader to decide who they believe.

The Lancer dicussion has another post on it since yesterday. Now 3 votes to 7 in my favour.

Then the Lancer Forum is obviously full of people that dont know how Forced air induction works. The probelm with this thread is it will now lead people astray with your clever but inacurate thoery. I think this thread should be closed seeing as its gone off topic now and the posts you have left are misleading. Again im not saying that a recirc is doesn't do the same job a a VTA because it does, they are both used to vent excess pressure, all im saying is the air that goes back into the turbo is not used as an accelerant for the compressor.

ding ding round 2.

Turbs: +1
emmett: -4205

OP: get an ITG panel filter and a Forge Resonance Delete Pipe. i have done that and the stock BoV sound is quite noticable :]

you do not understand forced
induction

Then the Lancer Forum is
obviously full of people that dont know how Forced air induction works

Seems very few people actually know anything about forced induction. :nice:

Just the select few on mini2 . com

*popcorn*

Seems very few people actually know anything about forced induction. :nice:

Just the select few on mini2 . com

If you dont like the fact people on here know what they are talking about and are prooving you wrong then why are you on this forum?

All im saying is your thoery is wrong, lets leave it as that.

Hector: The Exhaust Depot Bov is pretty good as DV's go for the R56. Its an HKS SSQV but with the extra resanator delete hose to add a bit more noise. Worth the money but you will more than likely get stung with an import duty on delivery.

Have you thought of an open air filter? There are a few good ones out there (steer clear of the Alta Kit, it loses power in the bottom to mid range).

Turbs, I saw that with just put in another open air filter it make more sound, but you recommend me a single open air filter for example a KN or is better to put a complete intake?? which one is best??
thank you

I would buy a complete intake if you are going to go that route. There are a few.

NM Engineering (http://http://www.nm-eng.com/)
Forge (http://http://http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=020102&product=FMIND05[/URL])
VIP (http://http://www.vipcustomparts.com/minicooperparts.htm)
DDM (http://http://www.ddmworks.com/mini/cooper_s/r56/engine/pfb.html)
M7 (http://http://www.m7tuning.com/parts/index.php?cPath=7_8)
K&N (Full Kit) (http://http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=69-2004TTK)

Theres a few more but cant think of them at the moment.

If you dont like the fact
people on here know what they are talking about and are prooving you wrong then why are you on this forum?

All im saying is your thoery is wrong, lets leave it as that.

You didn't criticise me... you said ALL the other people on the Lancer forum.

I actually think it's so funny how much you think you know and how much you rate your own knowledge above mine and everyone else. I'll be hanging around for a while just to watch for amusement purposes. :nice:

B.T.W. checked the Lancer forum again... now 3 to 8 in my favour.

I don't believe it makes a night and day difference. Like you'd experience a totally different drive... But earlier in this thread Turbs says I was so wrong that actually the total opposite to what I was saying was actually the truth. i.e. that it actually stalls the compressor.

Ok then child thats fine. When you have worked in partnership with Forge Motorsport, and various other tuning companies due to you knowlege in Cars engines and turbo's come back and criticise me:rolleyes:.

I made a vacuum source block for the R56 way before Alta did. I helped try and test Forges new parts as they value my knowlege and understanding in Turbo cars. And also made a VTA dump valve system from scratch for Forge due to me knowing how a Forced air induction system works. But i must say that your Lancer forum knowledge towers above megre old me:D.

Any who, give John another call and ask him if the discharged air a Recirc throws back into you air line is used as a compressor Accelerant. He will probably laugh and tell you its an urban myth that people on forums make up and post because its sounds clever and believable.

also made a VTA
dump valve system from scratch for Forge due to me knowing how a Forced air induction system works.Wow, I have so much respect for your abilities as of this moment... hahah... must be really difficult to think of a way to vent boost to atomosphere when the throttle closes. How on earth could you have developed such amazing abilities to think and design like that? Wow. :aargh:

What an idiot. Keep pushing your pencil dumb dumd:o. Just goes to show how little you know. You have to have a spring perfectly matched to the boost you are running to ensure the pressure is released at the right moment to ensure there is no over fueling, the VTA has to be placed in a prime location on the Boost line to ensure there is no stalling and no fueling issues. Then theres a case of working out what type of internals to use depending on when the boost will be released and how much pressure the internals have to hold till it vents.

Anyways, with the way you are acting i would think that people that have seen this thread wont want to help you with anything you have to ask incase you try to insult them for knowing more than you so dont be suprised if noone replies to anything you say. Theres no need to be rude juust because you are in the wrong and feel threatened:rolleyes:.

http://amadeo.blog.com/repository/1560713/3444428.jpg

^^^^:D^^^^

I wish i could stay as calm as you Rec. I just dont know how people think they can tell someone nonsense then insult you for setting them straight. Forums are great till the trolls turns up.