I am signature # 313.
Especially since the hardware is in place, it seems foolish of them NOT to give us the choice :mad:
My Jaguar had dual rear foglights, and I felt much better driving in fog with them activated - a little extra safety for the car and peace of mind for the driver seems to me to be well worth the cost of a switch and a re-program of the software :rolleyes:

Originally posted by R53W11


Take a look at

http://r53w11.com/othercarsgallery.htm

Every single BMW listed is a US spec car, none of them had rear foglights. Rear foglights were never even an option. Trust me on this one.

Did you say they were all company cars?
What do you do that they give a new car every year? Usually it's every 2-3 years...

You know I was thinking. Those lights would come in handy when some dumbass behind you leaves their brights on and doesn't realize it. I hate it when those suv's do it, and then you've got these spotlights glaring down the back of your neck, and there's no way to flash a warning to someone behind you.

Well, I posted a link to the petition on the Miata Forum...I figure other small car drivers can appreciate the point, and it seems I was right - I notice the first Miata owner (other than myself) has signed! :cool:

Originally posted by katiedidmini
You know I was thinking. Those lights would come in handy when some dumbass behind you leaves their brights on and doesn't realize it. I hate it when those suv's do it, and then you've got these spotlights glaring down the back of your neck, and there's no way to flash a warning to someone behind you.

To the majority of drivers, they would be indistinguishable from your brake lights. Only someone, who either had recently seen you apply your brakes, or who was familiar enough with the MINI's rear light cluster would know the difference.

So your flashing of, what appears to be the brake lights, might be interpreted as hostility by some. I find the interior dome light works better. Although it baffles many as well. At least they don't think I'm threatening to slam on the brakes.

And since my brights are those offending SUV/Truck type, I've switched from flashing to pass, to blinking to pass. Most drivers seem to get the message, and the level of reciprocated courtesy has gone up in return. The percentage of people who politely let me pass has gone up, and I get less return flashes from passed or on coming traffic. If blinking doesn't do it, I may resort to the standard flash, although, I'm very brief about it.

Bright lights are a hazard at night, as it takes a bit for the eyes to readjust to the low light conditions. That's a potential problem with the inevitable misuse of the rear fogs. Some drivers are going to leave it on, in normal conditions, and lower the forward nighttime visibility of the following driver. It's one of the things I dislike about automatics in the rain, as they use the brakes rather than throttle to maintain their speed. The glare causes a reduction in the following cars visibility causing them to panic and slow down and increase the gap. This causes a chain reaction, and 15-20 cars back traffic can nearly come to a complete stop. It's these unexpected events that catch the inattentive driver off guard, leading to accidents.

I'm still for inclusion of the rear fogs, just think we need to be firm in our peer pressure to encourage others to learn to use them correctly. Otherwise MINI/BMW have a very valid point, that the average driver here doesn't yet know how to correctly use a rear fog. There's already an abundance of abuse with the front fogs.

Cheers,
Brant

You know I was thinking. Those lights would come in handy when some dumbass behind you leaves their brights on and doesn't realize it. I hate it when those suv's do it, and then you've got these spotlights glaring down the back of your neck, and there's no way to flash a warning to someone behind you.
In high school, we used to get our passenger to aim the inside rearview mirror to shine the brights back into the eyes of the idiot driving with them on behind us. Not the safest way to let 'em know and got 'em pretty mad...

During a cursory view of MINI2 I see this thread. I read further and think:
What the #@!?

I've gotta ask you BMW/MINI North America... What the hell are you people thinking?!!!
Why the heck wouldn't you offer these features here? What possible justification could there be?

BMW/MINI UK & Germany:
Wherever you’re getting your marketing information from you’d best find a new source, because the current ones suck. Do a new focus group or something – these aren’t your regular Beemer customers here. …And you DO want us to be in the future… don’t you?

Give us the damn rear fog lights – our safety (HINT - your future buyers) is worth it.

This might not be the best place to post this but I want you folks to see it. I sure hope it doesn’t detract from the argument. I see it as part and parcel of what’s wrong with MINI North America.

I’ve gotta go off on a RANT - AHHHHHHHH!

Taking away safety features like rear fogs seems like a foolish & shortsighted business decision. Then again I suppose at this point I shouldn’t be surprised, as it seems to have become par for the course.

My experience with MINI:
Attempted to order an MCS last year (01) but couldn't get a price, nor would BMW place me on a waiting list. Reasons sighted: no final price, no dealers. Eventually BMW did agree to accept a deposit in February 02. At the time I figured “OK... so goes life at the bleeding edge.”

In April the first local dealership (BMW owned) opened its doors - so I got to spec and order my MCS, which was to arrive as early as July. …But alas there were delays – August, then September and now I’m looking at mid/end January delivery. Fool that I am I actually wanted to take delivery of the car I ordered – with the windshield defroster. Unlike so many other Mini-rabid folks who were willing to take whatever became available (maybe MINI USA did get it right? -supply & demand). I now have a week 50 build (Yippee!) but will be paying more due to the car's production date making it a 2003 model year. (I recognize the up side to this).

In early November I received a call to go back to the dealer and re-spec my car (why? I’m not certain). This turned out to be a good thing, as I opted to change the color, add the HK stereo system, and delete the sunroof. I also got to see the all-new MINI accessories brochure, and to order a few of the featured items. BUT when I asked about the two-tone leather options (pages 28-31 red/black or green/black) I was told “ They are not available here - worse yet was the reason given:

"Canadians don't want two-tone leather... its too loud, Canadians are conservative.”

This had me flabbergasted and thinking RIGHT!? I want to know whom the brain surgeon is that came up with that excuse? (It’d almost be laughable if the moronic logic didn't make me want to scream obscenities). Especially considering that we can get the lapis/black.

We're purchasing MINI’s… small, sporty, cool, somewhat unusual cars, which in most cases have a contrasting roof. And we’re buying THIESE CARS at a time when most of our contemporaries are buying SUV’s, Mini Van’s & luxo-mobiles. Could we possibly be straying further from what is conservative?

My last b!tch-issue has to do with cellular phone options - “window aerial”, “telephone console” and “Hands-free kit” options (pages 42-45 in accessories brochure). Yes… the one with the cool inside-car antenna, which mounts high on the windshield (just above the rear-view mirror). This unobtrusive system includes “hands-free device, telephone console, charger, and convenience function with radio mute.” And is “Suitable” for use with “…mobile phones manufactured by Motorola, Nokia, Siemens or Ericsson…”
COOL right? …Just what I could use… Not offered here!

Now I know full well that two-tone leather is a frivolous luxury… But the hands free cell phone…? How many states/provinces are cracking down on cell phone use while driving? I know that in Ohio its illegal. Why isn’t this considered a safety option? I for one certainly value the safety of having both hands free to drive.

minimc... don't want to set you off again, but did you actually get the heated front screen..? I was hoping for that but as far as I know it's been deleted from the cold weather pack - at least in the USA...
I think the cell phone thing is because the Euro phones are slightly different to the ones on this side of the Atlantic, so the issue is as much with the phone manufacturers as with MINI. I think this will improve once the 3G phones really take off, as I think the technologies for them are the same on both sides of the Atlantic.
I am constantly amazed at how far behind the UK America is lagging in terms of technology things like cell phones, bluetooth, wide screen tv's etc. It's odd to see which country is ahead in which technology.

Hi there Gadgetgav

No worries mate - I won't be set off any longer. ...That is unless you want to talk about the engine & what BMW technicians will say off-the-record about proper run-in, synthetic oil, and Bosch platinum spark plugs. ...But then that's another story.;)

Re: Heated windscreen
As far as I know it was supposed to be available starting week 48 build. Not certain if this is still true – possibly why my build was moved to week 50? I had to order the rain sensing wipers & auto-dimming mirror too, as its packaged this way here.

Adding to this petition & listing off my frustrations on MINI2 was (at the very least) a therapeutic experience:o

I do wish that MINI/BMW cared more about these issues. Unfortunately their aloof corporate attitude (as displayed by their official response to customer issues or lack-there-of) sends the wrong message.

Originally posted by minimc
Hi there Gadgetgav

No worries mate - I won't be set off any longer. ...That is unless you want to talk about the engine & what BMW technicians will say off-the-record about proper run-in, synthetic oil, and Bosch platinum spark plugs. ...But then that's another story.;)

Oh boy! I can't let that one go - too tantalizing. Spill the beans, man! :)

Jason

jlivingood
Sorry,
Not posting that here - too much backlash... the "true to MINI till I die" zealots would come raging out of the woodwork. If you want though I can PM you. I’d just prefer to keep it off of the board.

minimc - Oh no! You're not getting off that easy! :p May be a die hard Mini fan, but any info that might make the car perform better or insight into the engine workings is exactly what I come here for. So spill the beans. What info you have there? ;)

Yeah tell us... start a new thread or something.
Or PM me... :)

Ditto that! PM me, curiosity gets the best of me, and i'm CURIOUS!!!:D

Originally posted by minimc
jlivingood
Sorry,
Not posting that here - too much backlash... the "true to MINI till I die" zealots would come raging out of the woodwork. If you want though I can PM you. I’d just prefer to keep it off of the board.

Hey me too!!!!

PM me please!!! Spill the beans right here!!!!:D :D

Hey guys ask J if he'll give you a readers digest condensed version. I think he understands my reasoning for keeping it off this thread/the public board. If someone wants to they could start up a thread regarding the info. But to my mind its just gonna stir things up and go no where.
MC

J being....? Jason aka jlivingood..?

I don't see why there's so much secrecy...? There's been plenty of lively discussion about each of those subjects. Maybe it's too much for one post, but none of them is off limits as far as a moderator is concerned are they..?

Originally posted by GadgetGav
J being....? Jason aka jlivingood..?
Ah, yes, the one, the only, the marginally employed. ;) It's me.

Jason

Originally posted by minimc
Hey guys ask J if he'll give you a readers digest condensed version.

So I suppose if anyone likes they can PM me and I'll do my best to provide a condensed version. Suffice it to say, however, that it's really all about the controversy swirling 'round the issue of proper break-in proceedures. Our MINI2 collegue here has researched it pretty thoroughly and developed some well considered plans for his engine run in. Highly condensed then. For more details I suppose PM me or the original author. :)

Jason

Originally posted by jlivingood


So I suppose if anyone likes they can PM me and I'll do my best to provide a condensed version. Suffice it to say, however, that it's really all about the controversy swirling 'round the issue of proper break-in proceedures. Our MINI2 collegue here has researched it pretty thoroughly and developed some well considered plans for his engine run in. Highly condensed then. For more details I suppose PM me or the original author. :)
Jason

Jason, I will appreciate getting a copy. Thanks.

If you guys (Jason) didn't see it yet Autoweeks newest issue has a column about all this non fog light/switch being na in USA w your petitioning MINIUSA!
Don't have the mag in front of me- but its a whole column, he doesn't like them. Thinks US drivers are bad as they drive w them on.
:rolleyes:
Good job!:)
PS 10 people burned/died in the fog pileup in WI (Oct 02):(

Originally posted by ezrally
If you guys (Jason) didn't see it yet Autoweeks newest issue has a column about all this non fog light/switch being na in USA w your petitioning MINIUSA!

Really!? What's on the cover? I usually get my copy on Thursday or Friday of each week.

Jason

Originally posted by jlivingood


Really!? What's on the cover? I usually get my copy on Thursday or Friday of each week.

Jason

:) Yeah baby! Merc E55 on cover (Dec 2), you'll get it today. Mine comes on Wednesday's...

Originally posted by jlivingood


Really!? What's on the cover? I usually get my copy on Thursday or Friday of each week.

Jason

Did you see it yet???:)

Originally posted by ezrally
Did you see it yet???:)

Not yet, darn mailman! Should probably get it today. I think the holiday delayed delivery by a day.

Jason

Got my copy of autoweek yesterday. It was a big column on the subject and was pretty good.

The article is at
http://www.autoweek.com/columnists/cat_content_columnists.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=columnists&loc_code=index&content_code=05605241 .

Jason

BTW, sent an email to Kevin (the author of the article). Just responded to his casual question of what happened to true car guys that could wire their own switches. My response simply raised the point that the light is controlled by the body control module (aka BC1) and that it takes a little software engineering.

Keep those signatures rolling in! Let's try to hit 500 soon.

Jason

PS - I hate to raise the spectre of legal action since that is not what this is about. But can you imagine what would happen if someone were injured (or worse) after being rear-ended in their MINI in heavy fog knowing that MINI withheld this feature?

In the article, the author seems to think that people would be driving around with the rear fogs enabled all the time like daytime running lights. Wouldn't that require the driver turning the rear fogs on each and every time they started the car? I'd think the "unenlightened but light-empowered owners" would just forget about them--certainly forget to turn them on each time. Sure, i can understand forgetting to turn them off after driving through some thick fog, but who would actually go out of their way to turn the fogs on each time they turn on the car?

Grinder - agreed on your point about turning on each and every time. That very feature is what (forgive me for saying this) trained me from leaving my front fogs on. Yes, I admit it. I used to leave them on all the time. But common sense and a little engineering finally showed me the light (or lack thereof) and I learned to only turn them on for true foggy or inclement conditions.
Mini has a golden opportunity here. Their product is designed to educate drivers without them even realizing it. The only way to run with either front or rear foglights is to make a conscious effort to turn them on each and every time. Most people cannot be bothered unless something triggers them to activate them.
I have not recieved my Autoweek yet. Look forward to seeing the article.