After careful consideration and with summer coming, I am going to keep the MX5.

But I will still look at you all with a tinge of envy!

I may even drop by the faults and fixes forum to make me feel better!!


Regards,

T G.

Originally posted by swamos
I'm sorry, I re-read all the threads and you didn't say anything about it being faster. :eek: It was DividebyZero, he had me there!! Well actually, he didn't say the mx5 was faster in those words, but he said this...




I better stop on this now, as I'll annoy everyone else too much. One last post :)

Like you say, the Elan was a pretty extreme car in it's day, using radical new technology. The MX5 is mostly a parts bin special with a purpose designed body. This is just what makes them more practical, just as the MINI is much more practical than the classic mini, while retaining the spirit of the original, only in this case, while acknowledging their sources.

If you can't see that Mazda designed the mx5 to be a moderised, practical, production version of the Elan, while retaining the spirit of the original then so be it. You are in the minority. Look here (http://drive.fairfax.com.au/cgi-bin/drive2002/wrapper.cgi?article=..%2Fdocs%2Fcontent-new%2Fnews%2Fgeneral%2F2001%2F11%2F20%2FFFXIALTJ8U C.html&make=&family=&desc=&IsDealer=&search_query=&result_query=&site_section=news&cat=findarticles&subCat=&pType=searchresults) for just one of the press articles describing the Mx5 as an Elan copy. If you want to see more evidence, PM me and I'll start digging for you. The majority of mx5 fans I know openly acknowledge this.

Once again, you're right, it isn't fast, but it is fun. So, like I said at the beginning of this whole story, the MINI is a faster better copy of the original (while acknowledging it sources), and the mx5 is a slower, but more practical (and still fun) version of the Elan (While not acknowledging the sources, in true Japanese style).

:)

OK. The Mazda's parts bin stops at the engine, which is kinda like a nod to the Elan too, as it's engine was from the Ford parts bin.

The Mk1 does look like an Elan, and I don't think they ever denied that they looked to the paast to reinvent the roadster.

At the time of launch, the roadster had been dead for many years. Mazda saw an oportunity to launch an affordable, fun sportscar, as none were available at the time.

I say stop the bashing and thank them, or you would never have seen:

MG F & TF
Elise
Boxster
Z3 (OK, I wish they hadn't now....)
Z4

So it ain't all bad. And don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the 30yr old Elan, it's a great car, but not everyone wants an old car, so it's off the list for many.

Mazda reintroduced the notion of affordable sports cars, and for that we should be greatful, whatever we drive.

Just picked up my mcs after selling my 96 miata. the miata feels like it handles better. It also feels like you are going faster. But on my to-work onramp, I could push the miata through at 40-42mph. First time with the mcs, without trying I went through at 46 mph. I think I could easily go at 50. They do drive very different, front drive rear drive wise.

The Miata was not a parts bin creation. Yes the 1.6 motor was from the GLC turbo but was turned 90 degrees and converted to rear drive. It also switched to a distributerless ignition. Mazda's intent was to reintroduce the long dead roadster type auto to the forgotten enthusiast bringing 90's reliability to the car at the same time.

I very much enjoy getting back into my 99 6-speed Miata. It feels more tossable than the MCS.

I will be interested to see how the 2 cars stack up against each other in autocross. Realizing of course that they are not in the same class. I expect the Miata to be faster.

I'm amazed by how many S drivers seem to have or have had MX5s. I'm one of the gang too - still got it but in the process of selling.

I've only had the S for three days but initial comparisons are:

- the MX5 is prettier. I think the MCS looks good but the MX5 is a classic shape - no comparison.

- the MX5 handles better. It may be the old rear wheel drive vs front wheel drive thing and I may change my mind once I've had the S for a bit longer but the MX5 is so much more sure footed.

- the MCS is way more practical. Rear seats, more luggage space with rear seats folded down, ability to handle motorways without leaving you frazzled, able to listen to the stereo on motorways.

- the MCS has more toys. The Mazda is comically underspecced, especially given it's virtually the same price.

I originally was looking at getting a more practical car (a 3 series Tourer, say) as well as the MX5 but couldn't justify the expense of two cars. The MCS is a good compromise - still fun, but usuable every day.

I'd say stick with the MX5 unless you need the extra practicality.

Ziggy

These are both great cars. I think the MX-5 is a beautiful pure, simple design completely unlike the new MINI. It is more like the original Mini in that aftet 13 years in production, largely unchanged, it is still very well respected.

I previously had a 1.8i MX-5 and LOVED it to bits. Even when I crashed off the road, over a high kerb ripping off a wheel and then into a brick wall - it still never missed a beat!

It was 100% reliable and the dealers were excellent. It was a hoot to drive on a dry day with the top down and was adequately fast!

*BUT* I changed it for a new Cooper which is a bit slower but even more fun to drive on high-speed twisties! Feels much safer and more predictable and I can go at much higher speeds through the bends. I've never really looked back!
The MINI has a great combination of practicality and IMpracticality! After an MX-5 you really appreciate the folding back seats, even if they are small! I do still miss it on a nice day however - ideally i'd have both.

I agree with lightbody and, I forgot to mention on my last post, the MINI is much better in traffic as it's higher.

I live in London: MX5 with roof down is just at London bus exhaust height! Also, in the MX5, you can't see what's going on with traffic ahead and you get a crick in your neck when seeing if the lights have gone green.

Sorry, just can't help myself.....

Mx5 and the Elan (http://users.erols.com/elans4/)

Originally posted by swamos
Sorry, just can't help myself.....

Mx5 and the Elan (http://users.erols.com/elans4/)

Immitation is the most sincere form of flattery.:D

Originally posted by DivideBYZero
Immitation is the most sincere form of flattery.:D

:D :D :D :D

It's so simple -- rear wheel drive vs. wrong wheel drive!;)

Originally posted by MiataJake
It's so simple -- rear wheel drive vs. wrong wheel drive!;)

Yet apparently, it's NOT quite that simple...did you read Neil's comments earlier in this thread??
I am yet another MCS/Miata owner, and I don't find the Mini diminished in the least by its drive wheels. Besides - the Mini is true to its heritage with FWD...it would be different if the new one had switched drive wheels just for the sake of making it work around existing hardware, like the new Beetle for example.

@MINImalist

Very good point! The New Beetle is hardly more than a caricature of the original Beetle´s body pulled over a Golf´s chassis with funny side effects like the minivan-like dashboard. The MINI is at least meant to interpret the basic qualities of the original and tranfers them into the modern world. Think of a body that looks like a new MINI with the chassis of a shortened 3-series. Apart from how good it would perform, but that imagination is ridiculous.

Klaus

Miata vs. MINI = rear wheel drive vs. wrong wheel drive!

Miata vs. MINI = rear wheel drive vs. wrong wheel drive!All I can say is that after 18 months with an MX-5, I only had ONE satisfying all-out thrash when I got the hang of the rear-drive handling. Most of the time it made me very nervous, especially in the wet or where grip was unknown.

In the MINI i regularly can take it up to and beyond its limites, in the knowledge that it wont do anything silly, will go faster than other cars through the bends, and give me a silly grin.

An expert driver may find different, but I know I can drive considerably faster through bends in the Cooper 1.6 than in my MX-5 1.8!

Originally posted by MiataJake
Miata vs. MINI = rear wheel drive vs. wrong wheel drive!
To say that a statement like that is a bit simplistic is like saying that the statement is a BIT of a troll :rolleyes: Anyway, on the off chance that you're not as deluded as you sound, I will continue.

A good rear-wheel drive is a joy. I have one, and if I get another car it will be one too. Having said that, Australia is full of RWD cars, and I wouldn't take one if you gave them to me. They are pathetic monoliths. :( A large part of the MINI's racing history comes from their ability to beat much bigger and more powerful rwd cars in the 60's.

I have also driven FWD cars that are very poor. So, it comes back to a fwd done well can be a beautiful thing. The mini is like that. A true car enthusiast should be able to appreciate both for what they offer.

I can really only add one thing to this forum as my experience with the MX-5 was limited to a test drive... but that was at the point where i had only had a test drive of the Cooper S also...

I took out the MX-5, drove it around a bit and the first thing that turned me off was the cheap feeling i got when i got in... Maybe because it was a demo or something but i was really not impressed with the overall look and feel of the instruments and levers etc....
I ruled it out of the race with the MCS instantly because i didn't feel that the interior was up to the price they were asking and this was going to be my first new car and i expected more....

I fully admit that the handling may have been great had i tested it out but i wasn't interested in going that far to find out.. They really needed to lift there game in this one area to make the MX-5 the car it probably deserves to be....

As i said b4, it could have been just that car but sheeesh, if that is the case the dealer really needs to sharpen his game.. first impressions and all..

PS.. I wouldn't want to argue with Swamos regarding Elans, he is a fanatic owner of one :D:D:D

Let's see, front wheel drive typically means understeer for most cars when pushed too far and rear wheel drive means oversteer.

Understeer means the front of the car hits the tree, oversteer means the back end of the car hits the tree.

In a recent Austin autocross on a fast 50-55 second course, a stock Cooper S was in a dead heat with a stock 99 Miata. Both cars were driven by experienced autocrossers with the edge in skill going to the MINI driver who owns a Miata. In his knowledgeable opinion, the only thing holding the Cooper S back is no limited slip. He said he had trouble putting down power on the inside front tire during hard cornering. With the Miata, when the rear end sets, you can hammer the trottle and the car goes.

I think the edge will go to the Miata. But, Nationals is in September.

Mini Cooper S in the 60s kept winning races and Rallies over and over against more powerful & exotic REAR DRIVE machinery! :-)

You can't compare 60's rear-drivers to today's machinery.

Originally posted by lightbody
Mini Cooper S in the 60s kept winning races and Rallies over and over against more powerful & exotic REAR DRIVE machinery! :-)


And much heavier too! Weight has a whole lot to do with it! In fact it has everything to do with it!

I've just sold my 's' in favour of an '03 Impreza WRX. When I first bought the 'S' I did it for the long term and until recently it remained that way but now i'm a bit sick of the harsh ride, heavy steering, and rattles an squeeks etc. Don't get me wrong the mini brought a smile to my face until the very end but now I want more power, more comfort and more practicality. Bring forth the WRX. :)

TC.

Uhm....

LOL

No way to keep both? I have a Miata and am trying to convince the wife to get the MINI for her car. :D

Would that situation work for you?

The Cooper "S" for sure! I've test ridden both, and I've owned a "S" for more than 3 months. The "S" has gobs more power and a larger trunk, err BOOT! The stereo sounds MUCH better. The handling is more pleasant to me on the "S" than the Mazda, although the Mazda generally pulls 0.85 v.s 0.80 for my MINI "S" with all-seasons. The MX-5 just isn't quite as jiggy on the road.

Also, the Mazda's stock exhaust sounds VERY much like an econobox, while the MINI's raspy tone sounds more businesslike.

That said, if you want to mod it, the Miata can be a very mean machine.

We were lucky enough to buy a new MX5 and a Mini Cooper S in September last year.

Even having one of each this is a very tough question.

During the winter, the S was the preferred choice of transport. The S is sure footed in even the wettest road conditions and is just a "no problem" car whether its cold, hot, wet dry. The MX5 hard top eases the impact of winter a little though.

But, with the summer here now (I think) in the UK the MX5 has really come into its own. It feels less well built (slightly), but that could just be the lighter feel. Certainly the MX5 has had no warranty work, whilst the S has had a few things done so maybe the MX5 is better.

Superb handling comes as standard with the MX5 and with the 1.8 engine, is almost as quick for overtaking, but with the enormous benefit of open top motoring.

If I could only have one, it would be the S. An all year round practical car that does everything I need all the time.

The MX5 for me is a fun car that you buy only when you can also have a practical car for the less than perfect weather days. Motorway cruising is certainly much better in the S too, so again the MX5 imposes restrictions. Two seats is also not great for going anywhere with friends.

If you have another practical car, go for the MX5.

If the MX5 is your only car, go for the S, it covers all the bases.

:cool:

When I bought my MCS in January this year, it was to replace an MX5 1.8i. I had two over a period of nearly 9 year- an old-shape (pop-up lights) and then a new-shape one.

It was an outstanding car and I enjoyed them both a lot. The rwd handling is lovely, the power is plenty to be enjoyable without being too much. It's cheap to run (insurance, petrol, tyres, servicing) and dead reliable. I can't recommend it too highly. When I got my MCS, I missed the MX5 and seriously wondered whether I'd made a mistake.

However, the MCS is undoubtedly more fun to drive and it feels somehow more modern, sophisticated and young. I think if I went back to an MX5 now, I'd probably miss the S far more than I missed the MX5 when I changed.

I only wish BMW would build the Mini better - mine's been back for warranty work four times already and still has two outstanding problems. My MX5s had only one very minor problem in 9 years and 90,000 miles.

I think only advice I can offer is to own both - if not at the same time, then one after the other.

Alan

I have the best of both worlds

I sold my MX5 MK2.5 and bought a MK1 :o)
and I have just ordered a MCS pick her up in Sep 2003 can't wait :) :) :)

I have the best of both worlds

I sold my MX5 MK2.5 and bought a MK1 :o)
and I have just ordered a MCS pick her up in Sep 2003 can't wait :) :) :)

I have recently purchased a cooper S myself and will be picking it up on Weds this week.

I had a choice between a cooper S a MX5 and a Honda Civic Type R but I decided to go for the Mini because it was more apealing and looked great.

I don't think no other car can beat the mini with regards to the fun factor. I use to drive and race Go-karts when I was young and when I test drove the Mini S it brought back the memories of karting instantly.

If I was you I would go for the S because it's a very trendy little motor and will hold it's value for a long time.
Also cheaper on insurance because it's a british car.
Japanease motor's tend to be higher on insurance for some reason.

Its your choice at the end of the day because everyone has different opions on car's when making the choice.

Went from a a base cooper and I would not not go back for a sec. The feel of this car is much better than the tinny feel of a miata. the exhaust note is very nice for a 1.6. The miata always sounded pathetic when you revved past 4k...kinda embarrasing, all noise and nothing. The Cooper has that german solidity that no Japanese car can seem to match. No more Jap cars for me. I wil deal with the probs if and when, but no more Jap cars in the name of realiabilty. Cooper all the way. WWD is simply a comment made by one who wishes to simplify this valid discussion. Handling is the ultimate reality...The MINI with "WWD" will out handle my 99 miata hands down. I think a lot of miata owners get caught up in the "feels faster". I can't wait to encounter a brave Miata in the turns...;-)