Originally posted by Tony*t3
I see in one of the mags that Mike Cooper rekons that the Wks S shouls be readily tunable to about 230bhp later... perhaps more agressive chip, faster spinning Supercharger, more work with the exhaust...

Now we're talking:D My main questions is when is the damn thing coming to the States? Now MINIUSA is saying "May," but at one point they were saying "January" so I'm not sure what to believe. It's getting painful to hear from our Europena friends across the pond -- you guys have Hartge, Digitec, Works, etc. to choose from. We've got squat over here right now :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Careful spending all that $$$ on the JCW. The numbers aren't as impressive as they make them out to be. The biggest gain of all, is torque.

Originally posted by TomM
Careful spending all that $$$ on the JCW. The numbers aren't as impressive as they make them out to be. The biggest gain of all, is torque.

I test drove the Wks last week, and have a Hartge test drive soon. I was very impressed with the quality of the feel of the Wks, it really felt like a factory car. However, it didn't give me the 'thrill' that I was expecting, it didn't seem to have an 'edge'. This thrill that I am talking about if the one that you get when you first drive a regular 'S' after driving a Cooper for 18 months, like I did. When you first get in the regular 'S' and let it 'have some', you want to go 'whoooohooo'..... I was expecting the same leap in performance between the 's' and the wks. But it wasn't there. It still made you go 'whoooohooo, but so does the regular 'S'. The extra revs at the top end were good, as I find driving the regular 'S' you always want another half second in gear when accelerating hard, as if the rev limit is set just a little low.... and yes, there is much more torque, so it reacts quickly in gear without needing to step down a gear. But there was still no extra 'thrill factor'. I will be asking JCG for a more extensive test drive, without their salesman present. Perhaps his presence dulled it a little for me? I do not have any doubts about the quality of the car though. It is like driving an 'M' series car in some respects, very well engineered. Definantly fast, but I don't feel the conversion delivers 100% of what the uprated components could deliver. Perhaps this is a marketing trick on the side of BMW. Perhaps they want to further develope this kit into some kind of 'special'. Perhaps a limited edition will be available in the future, with another 10% power.

Anyway, looking forward to testing the Hartge conversion. A friend of mine, who sells Minis for a living, and therefore has a vested interest in pushing the Wks conversion, really raves about the Hartge conversion. Says its 'an animal, astounding performance'....

I would say the Works kit (and any other perfomance upgrade for that matter) is to the S what the S is to the Cooper (performance wise only). Unfortunately you really DO need to have the car for longer to see what it can do and how impressive it is compared to the stock S. I may be biased but really the 20-30 minute test drive (with two passengers) I got before getting mine done didn't give me the greatest of chances to see what the car is like. It was kind of like the stock S test drives; a lot of people were unimpressed until they had the car for longer where it really does start to shine.

Two views

Pro:-

I do agree that the cost is a lot, but then I've always believed that you have to spend a fair bit of money to get something done properly. The law of ever diminishing returns comes into play: If you want a car to be as reliable, durable and driveable as before, but with more power, then you have to be willing to pay for it.

Con:-

Mind you it would have been nice to get a few more goodies to make the package a bit more than just a performance upgrade.

Still to answer the con myself, I really didn't want my car, at the moment, to look too different from the rest (well maybe a quad exhaust ;) :p :) ).

:)

Originally posted by bigbaddaboom
I would say the Works kit (and any other perfomance upgrade for that matter) is to the S what the S is to the Cooper (performance wise only). Unfortunately you really DO need to have the car for longer to see what it can do and how impressive it is compared to the stock S....

I dont agree with the first statement. I think the difference between the S and Cooper is a lot more than between the Works and the S. Especially when you consider the price jump for the two, and what you get for that money.

I had it for a week, was generally not overly impressed when comparing to and swapping between my S. I will have it again for a week soon, and I will see if something 'clicks' that time around.

It's a great conversion, but I dont know.. I have doubts lingering that a week with the car didn't remove.

Originally posted by Paul Mullett
I dont agree with the first statement. I think the difference between the S and Cooper is a lot more than between the Works and the S. Especially when you consider the price jump for the two, and what you get for that money.

I had it for a week, was generally not overly impressed when comparing to and swapping between my S. I will have it again for a week soon, and I will see if something 'clicks' that time around.

It's a great conversion, but I dont know.. I have doubts lingering that a week with the car didn't remove.

Mmm, interesting. Same conclusions as me but over a longer time. I completely agree with Bagabadaboom about 'paying for quality etc', and overall 'driveability and reliability'. But I want a bit more 'on the edge, peak performance'.
I am also lucky enough that should I want normal 'S' performance and driveability for day to day trips, then I can (and do) revert to my wifes MCS. This weekend, I had to cover a quick 500 miles of more mundane motorway tipe milage, so rather than take my own MCS, which is fast approaching 1st service, we took hers. No, not flash gits with loads of money, just two Mini nuts that had the opertunity of both owning the cars that we really wanted. So the extra cost of converting one is still important to me, but I want to know that should I spend the extra money, it is for the right reason, which to me happens to be get the most responsive car. Personally, I would like the head work and new supercharger of the Wks car, with the more agressive settings of the Hartge ECU and a straight through exhaust. Money being what it is though, perhaps not. The standard 'S' still makes me smile every time I drive it, and my license might not survive 200bhp+!! (already got my first 3 points in 17 years of driving since getting my 'S'!!)

Originally posted by Paul Mullett
I had it for a week, was generally not overly impressed when comparing to and swapping between my S. I will have it again for a week soon, and I will see if something 'clicks' that time around.

Maybe the problems you had with the test car didn't help? Hope your next test goes better. However I was only comparing the performance, not all the other bits that come with an S over a Cooper (and it was only my 'biased' opinion).

:)

Originally posted by bigbaddaboom
Maybe the problems you had with the test car didn't help? Hope your next test goes better. However I was only comparing the performance, not all the other bits that come with an S over a Cooper (and it was only my 'biased' opinion).

:)

On your previous post, I think a 4 port exhaust would be a mistake. Looks too much like it pretending to be an 'M' series BMW, which I think is a little sad. That said, the Wks twin exhaust is a little understated. Perhaps something with more 'trumpet' like finish (like on a Lambo) would suit it more? Or maybe a single wide oval exhaust? Too much like a Porsche perhaps? Might suit the car though. Seen several Hartges with 4 ports, can't say I have been impressed.

Never much good with spelling 'suit' 'soot' 'suite' 'suet' 'suiet'. Take your pick, to much brain activity for me. just looks wrong!

Originally posted by bigbaddaboom
Maybe the problems you had with the test car didn't help? Hope your next test goes better. However I was only comparing the performance, not all the other bits that come with an S over a Cooper (and it was only my 'biased' opinion).

:)

It is true I only managed to get hundred, not over a thousand miles on the car (which is what I usually manage with the press loaners over the course of a week). Even before the fault I wasn't entirely convinced.

I think a lot of it is to do with the fact the S is so good anyway, and because I was testing it for review, I have to continually ask myself 'is it worth the money'...

I dont think the performance gain feels like that between the Cooper and the S, the 'type' of drive doesn't change that much, you just get more of it! Which is no bad thing! :)

Originally posted by Tony*t3
On your previous post, I think a 4 port exhaust would be a mistake. Looks too much like it pretending to be an 'M' series BMW, which I think is a little sad. That said, the Wks twin exhaust is a little understated. Perhaps something with more 'trumpet' like finish (like on a Lambo) would suit it more? Or maybe a single wide oval exhaust? Too much like a Porsche perhaps? Might suit the car though. Seen several Hartges with 4 ports, can't say I have been impressed.

Never much good with spelling 'suit' 'soot' 'suite' 'suet' 'suiet'. Take your pick, to much brain activity for me. just looks wrong!

Oh I just always liked the looks of it on the original Works S test mule that was around a while back, I still like what I have, its distinctive enough for me (at the moment). :) ;)

And I think your spelling of 'suit' was right! :)

i don't know about the others but i won't spend 6000 if i can't see/feel any noticeable differences in a 30 min. drive...then you'll eventually wanna upgrade it after you buy it, why bother swtiching to a works car coz you'll end up hving some aftermarket bits anywaz and the reliabilty & warranty of the works car just doesn't exist anymore......

6000 is alot of money to me.

When talking to Mike Cooper a couple weeks ago he said they could easy get 235hp for the uk market, reliably. However it's a world market product hence 200. Also there is no intake change, as in open, they found no benefit when testing. Didn't drive one though so can't comment on that part.

M