I leased for the exact same reasons you did nervous. If things are sorted out and looking good at the end of the lease I will probably buy it out. I love the car but it is one of the most poorly assembled vehicles I have ever owned outside of old Detroit iron. Quality control seems to be virtually nonexistent, I suppose the upside is that I pretty much knew this going in. People that find out after the purchase are undoubtedly more irate about it then I am.


Poorly Built???


You care to explain that one?????

Fine enjoy your bloated FX. One less MINI on the road!!!!


My guess is the Mini would still be on the road!!!! - however BMW will have to sell it with the notification that it was re-purchased from the original owner as a LEMON - that is of cause if they were honest - but I wouldn't put it past BMW not to play by the rules and re-sell to another unsuspecting "customer" without the required notice.

CooperS4us for someone who lives in denial about all of the problems that DO exist with the MCS, you sure do spend a long time in the faults and fixes forum.

By the way I think there should be another forum called the "faults and NO fixes forum" this could be allocated to all the hiccup, stumble, yoyo, brick wall, broken windscreens etc... issues that the mighty BMW have not been able to fix.

Again, check any car-related forum. You'll see tons of complains, no matter what car. Even the legendary lexus have owners with tons of complains.

Not like here - who ever heard of a car that willingly launches you into a stream of quickly moving traffic and then decides to have a little stop and rest for a few seconds - and only does this when you most need REVS - and only sometimes to be totally unpredictable.

Not to mention numerous owners with 4 or more windscreen replacements in a year - steering racks, columns and pumps falling apart and being replaced piece by piece with numerous visits to the dealers.

Software "upgrades" that actually degrade the performance of the car and the continuance of the practice just so they [service reps] can be seen to be doing something even though it is known that it will have detrimental effects on the performance of the car.

The mini truely is a ONE of a kind and not in the way most of us in this forum would like it to be.

CooperS4us for someone who lives in denial about all of the problems that DO exist with the MCS, you sure do spend a long time in the faults and fixes forum.

By the way I think there should be another forum called the "faults and NO fixes forum" this could be allocated to all the hiccup, stumble, yoyo, brick wall, broken windscreens etc... issues that the mighty BMW have not been able to fix.

Zulu, I don't want to (can't) comment on the probelms you have had with your car, but I do wonder what on earth are doing here all the time? Don't you have something better to do than hang around in this forum that is about the car that makes or made your life so miserable?

Coo/S

Poorly Built???


You care to explain that one?????

Transmission replaced, electrical problems, NAV system problems, more rattles and squeaks than I can recall in virtually any car I've ever owned, parts popping off, getting the AC noise now, melted battery cover, stumble issue. This is with 9000 miles on the car and not quite a year of ownership. From talking to my service manager she has been amazed that Mini/BMW hasn't done recalls on some of the items because she has had to deal with them so many times on different cars. Not to mention that the demo cars that I drove prior to buying all had rattles and squeaks, even the low mileage (under 1000) ones. I stand by my words. I love the car but I knew what I was getting in to.

CooperS4us,

BMW/MINI must love you. I have seen your posts here and on MCO (I guess you're the same person), and you're always coming to the defense of the MINI. Have you ever thought to yourself why it is continually necessary to defend the MINI's reliability and build quality to so many people?

If these cars had a great track record, it wouldn't be necessary. Sure, you'd still have the problem here or there, that's to be expected, but we have a large percentage of ownership reporting the same problems.

Someone posted on MCO the other day about the cup holders. This individual suggested that MINI should buy everyone the MINIFINI cup holder, since the existing ones didn't function for large cups, etc. It went over like a lead balloon. Everyone defended MINI and wouldn't accept the position the individual had put forth. I propose that if the build quality/engine management/reliability problems were extremely isolated, you'd receive a similar response here. But you don't find that. You find more and more people coming forward, beginning to dump the car in frustration, becoming much more vocal and angry..

I'm very happy for you that you received a perfect MINI, but I'm at a loss for why you are so quick to defend the MINI when so many of us are clearly having issues with the car. Do you think we come here just to hear ourselves rant and rave? We're frustrated by the faults and lack of response we've received in fixing those faults. We're looking for answers, and I think many of us are hoping that MINI gets the message and fixes things before our comments here and elsewhere begin to hurt sales. If we remain silent and keep blowing sunshine up MINI's tailpipe, we may never get quality control up to a higher standard.

I gave MINI plenty of time to work out the bugs. I watched for months and months as problems were ironed out. I told people that I thought their chances of getting a reliable, near-perfect MINI was very high going into early 2003. I was wrong. Some problems were fixed, but worse problems surfaced.

Let's face facts. The MINI is unique. It is wonderful in many, many ways. I don't deny this. I love my MINI, but I also hate some of the problems I have with the car (the stumble on EVERY launch from a standstill being #1). I also had rattles. I have spoken to many owners, and the majority report at least one to two problems with the car (in addition to rattles) in the first 5000 miles. Statistically, that satisfies me that quality control is lacking. I don't understand that, to be quite honest. BMW is supposed to have one of the best information and quality control systems in the world, so what's going on?

I just hope that you'll see things from our perspective. Having a perfect MINI shouldn't give you a license to shoot down the position of those who have had a far different experience.

If you are the same person as from MCO, I hope your 2004 model is perfect. I sure hope it doesn't stumble, because if it drives like my MINI, you're going to hate it.

See ya,
JS

Nice one JS - I think we're on the same page here.

Great car with BAD problems and not just mechanical (read management)

By the way I think there should be another forum called the "faults and NO fixes forum" this could be allocated to all the hiccup, stumble, yoyo, brick wall, broken windscreens etc... issues that the mighty BMW have not been able to fix.

The irritating thing for me is that they CAN fix the stumble - they fixed it on my car. Granted, it took them a week and they had to Fedex my ECU to NJ to have it done, but it worked. I don't see why they can't do that for the rest of you. This lack of response and the poor reputation Mini is getting bothers me, even though my car is fixed, because it devalues my car.

Zulu - sorry to see you go but I understand. I hope you enjoy the FX. We've had three Nissan vehicles ourselves over the years and they seemed like they would run forever with few problems.

I finally placed my MCS order in June (2004 model, Oct. delivery) for these very reasons. I would NEVER buy the first year production of any vehicle, let alone a Mini. Hopefully many of these problems have been ironed out for the 2004 model run.
The Mini S has no direct competition in it's price range, and is different. I was salivating over the "S" when it arrived last summer but decided to wait a year to be safe. BMW's 4 year/50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty did help aleviate my fears when placing my order though. The styling attracted me, but the test drive pulled me in as a buyer. What handling!!

Zulu - sorry to see you go but I understand. I hope you enjoy the FX. We've had three Nissan vehicles ourselves over the years and they seemed like they would run forever with few problems.

Zulu reminds me of a couple of guys at the bimmer boards who got frustrated with their BMWs and bought some other cars. Somehow they still love to hang around the bimmer boards. I guess once a BMW owner, always a BMW owner :D

P.S. Not to go offtopic. The main reason I think of the MINI as a BMW is because all the ergonomics (and a lot of parts) seem similar to my E46. I did not need the salesperson to explain a lot because it was just like driving the E46.

I have read so much about this 'stumble' issue. What exactly do you mean ?

My wifes cooper ( jan 03 ) runs like a piece of cr*p most days lately. It seems to have very little power at low revs and needs a load of revs to get it to pull away. If you try to accelerate smoothly in a higher gear, say 4th gear from 30 mph, it surges / splutters and just does not go smoothly until way past 4000 rpm.

When leaving the dealer one day my wife pulled away in first up a slight hill, for about 100m the car crawled along at idle speed although she said her foot was to the floor ( I blamed her at the time ! )

Does this mean we have got the same fault, although I thought it only affected cooper s.

pflowers:

Your problem is known as the "bog".

Here is a post by jstines in July that defines the three main problems most people are having. Not everyone on this board (notably here2help, who is a Mini technician in the U.K.) seems to agree with these definitions, but most of us do and are using them.


By not having commonly accepted names for these problems, it does get confusing. There are three separate issues that I have and that others have eluded to.

1. Momentary loss of engine power...like the engine cuts out, then springs back to life. This is the one that happens in 1st gear when launched from a standstill. It only happens when the clutch is fully released in 1st gear. This is what I refer to as the stumble or hiccup. It is not RPM-dependent in any way, though it will appear to be. It is simply because we normally accelerate a certain way. Change the acceleration, and you can change the RPM at which the hiccup occurs. Through careful clutch manipulation, this one can be reduced, but it is most certainly not normal nor is it operator error. This hiccup can be severe under heavy acceleration. Again, this only occurs in 1st gear, only from a standstill, and it is an extremely momentary event. It's over in 1/2 second.

Possibly related is a sudden drop in engine speed when decelerating. This occurs roughly around the 1500 RPM range.


2. The car loses ability to accelerate normally in first gear. With accelerator pedal engaged, car crawls away for two to three seconds, then suddenly the car shoots forward and quickly comes up to speed. Happens very seldom to me, but could be potentially life-threatening under certain circumstances. This is what I refer to as 1st Gear Engine Bog. The feel of this situation is very much like launching a car in 3rd gear.

3. Under heavy acceleration, most noticeable in third gear in my car, the acceleration is not constant, but instead feels like someone is pressing and releasing the accelerator pedal, so that if one plotted acceleration on a graph, it would produce a sine wave. I call this the yo-yo effect, because the acceleration is up an down, up and down, up and down. After about three cycles of this yo-yo, the car accelerates normally.

If MINIUSA or here2help would like further clarification, I'd be happy to talk with you on the phone.

See ya,
John Stines

The irritating thing for me is that they CAN fix the stumble - they fixed it on my car.

shkeller55, are you sure they did not just load to a pre 33.2 release that did not have the stumble. See, I had no stumble before 33.2 was loaded. I asked to be reverted back to the older version and was told they could not. Perhaps that is exactly what they did for you?

shkeller55, are you sure they did not just load to a pre 33.2 release that did not have the stumble. See, I had no stumble before 33.2 was loaded. I asked to be reverted back to the older version and was told they could not. Perhaps that is exactly what they did for you?

I had no stumble either until they loaded 33.2. But all I know is what they told me, which is that they reloaded 33.2, or somehow loaded the rest of it, which fixed my stumble problem. There's really no way to tell what they *really* did since I didn't watch them.

My dealer says it is related to the clutch! I have had the stumble since day one. Today I replaced my clutch and now the stumble is gone. Therefore it must be the clutch...

wow,

Then you have nothing like what we have been talking about in this thread.

My dealer says it is related to the clutch! I have had the stumble since day one. Today I replaced my clutch and now the stumble is gone. Therefore it must be the clutch...

For you, I guess so if it fixed your problem. But for me, fixing the software got rid of the stumble. For everyone else here, their dealers (at least those who admit there's a problem) have told them it's a software problem. You're lucky that your fix was straightforward.

I share the stumble problem in 1st gear. On 1st visit to dealer the throttle housing was replaced & software updated. This did not resolve the issue, although I did get a free valet ;)

On 2nd visit this week, dealer has confirmed that a new software version is to address this issue. Only one other customer is on their list at the moment for this update. An estimate of 3-4 weeks was quoted for software availability.

Fingers crossed, although I am surprised & dissaponited this sort of thing can happen in a production car @ 16K +

My dealer says it is related to the clutch! I have had the stumble since day one. Today I replaced my clutch and now the stumble is gone. Therefore it must be the clutch...

Glad you got a new clutch, but if you have software version 33.2 or later, your stumble is most likely going to return. If you read the threads, the stumble frequently disappears for a few days after a dealer reset of the ECU, only to gradually return.

Did you replace your clutch or did your dealer?

Still waiting for software version 99.9.9

The dealer did but some of the service advisors expected me to pay by the sounds of things. After fitting my new clutch my car constantly smells like burnt clutch when I drive. Is that normal?

The dealer did but some of the service advisors expected me to pay by the sounds of things. After fitting my new clutch my car constantly smells like burnt clutch when I drive. Is that normal?

I've rebuilt a few transmissions in my day and I don't recall ever smelling the clutch burn after replacing it. Maybe slightly for the first 5-10 starts, but definitely not after that. There should be no difference between a factory fitted "new" clutch and your new clutch. It sounds like it wasn't adjusted correctly and it is slipping. I'd take it back soon.

Why did they expect you to pay?!?

wow,
was your problem like mine where it only occured while engaging the clutch? Did you have any kind of bog after your foot was back on the foot rest? Mine doesn't. I'm not clear if everyone answering my post is having the same problem as us. I don't want to insult anyone, but the loss of power and then a surge sounds a lot like how the traction control reacts. Is it possible this is thier problem? BTW how did you convince mini to replace the clutch?

wow,
was your problem like mine where it only occured while engaging the clutch? Did you have any kind of bog after your foot was back on the foot rest? Mine doesn't. I'm not clear if everyone answering my post is having the same problem as us. I don't want to insult anyone, but the loss of power and then a surge sounds a lot like how the traction control reacts. Is it possible this is thier problem? BTW how did you convince mini to replace the clutch?

We've all tried turning off DSC and still have the problem, although some people have it a little less when DSC is turned off. For me the problem was the same with or without DSC on.

wow,
was your problem like mine where it only occured while engaging the clutch? Did you have any kind of bog after your foot was back on the foot rest? Mine doesn't. I'm not clear if everyone answering my post is having the same problem as us. I don't want to insult anyone, but the loss of power and then a surge sounds a lot like how the traction control reacts. Is it possible this is thier problem? BTW how did you convince mini to replace the clutch?

Been there, tried that. I've noticed that sometimes the DSC flashes when the car loses power, other times it does not flash. I think the DSC might help to get the bog (a long stumble) started, but it seems to be something else in the fuel control that prolongs it. The lurch stumble never lights the DSC.

My stumble is wierd! i turn off the DSC on my s and thiers no stumble is this commen????????????????

My stumble is wierd! i turn off the DSC on my s and thiers no stumble is this commen????????????????

Adamo,
Can you describe your stumble? It might not be the same stumble we're talking about.

cheers.

I have the initial stumble upon acceleration, and then as soon as it picks up speed, it bogs down. I have had it in twice, the first time they replaced th o2 sensor, last month they upgraded the software, and said it was fixed. If anything, it is worse now. I have about given up on ever having my racy little Mini back that I had when I first brought it home. :(

Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. Our MCS built 6/19/03 has the classic stumble discussed many times on this and other forums. Earlier this week at around 1050 miles I took the car down to the dealership service manager and discussed the problem with him. He told me he'd never heard of a stumble problem in any Mini! After brow beating him for a while he told me that there were pending software fixes coming that should take care of any problems that I may be having but he would never admit to the S having a launch stumble problem.

So I came home and called the AskMini help line. The rep told me that they are VERY aware of the problem and that a fix was definitely in the works and to hang in there. He added our VIN number to their data base of problem cars and reassured me that they would be in touch.

I then called the service manager back to pass on what BMW had told me. He said that I should call him back on September 15th to see if he had received the cure for the stumble from BMW. The stumble that he originally claimed didn't exist.

Our stumble is intermittent and slight but still needs to be fixed. I will hold them to their promise.

hdutton do not be afraid, the MINI is a great car and will be one that if you do not get, you will always regret not owning.
I have probably been one of the most ardent complainers about the MINI, but... it is a car that I dearly love and would not want to be without. I own a fleet of different cars, from a '65 Morris Mini to a 2004 Pacifica (Chrysler crossover vehicle). Even with all of it's issues, the MINI has class & character. I'm in my 50's now... when I lay on my death bed many years from now, I know I will look back fondly on my MCS & thank God that I didn't miss the opportunity to own this lovely car when new. Trust me, the problems we are having only add character to our cars and flavor to our "car show" stories years from now as we sit proudly behind our concourse 2002/2003 MCS's... while people driving new 2023 electric bubble cars walk up to us and say " I used to have one of those... wish I still did!'" . BTW, based on my experience, 99% of the people who say the once owned a beautiful classic car like my '65 mini or '71 MGB never actually did... they are just a want-a-be... YOU & I are the REAL thing!
DRIVE 'em Like You Stole 'EM!
Bart in FLorida
PS Sept. 20th ALL BRITISH CAR SHOW at FoxLake in Titusville FL... NEW MINI's INVITED as WELL! email me for info! btsave@sysmatrix.net

.................

So I came home and called the AskMini help line. The rep told me that they are VERY aware of the problem and that a fix was definitely in the works and to hang in there. He added our VIN number to their data base of problem cars and reassured me that they would be in touch.

.................

I called ASK-MINI today. They said they were working on the problem, but that I would be better off talking to my dealer. Jess at ASK-MINI told me they had no system for notifying owners when the problem was fixed, but maybe my dealer would take my name down.

How come we are getting different stories?

On another note, it was a cool day here in Massachusetts. The car ran superbly. The stumble was still there, but the acceleration was crisp and consistent. I really think MINI's don't like hot weather.