I've looked around and found that for under $300 I can get a 40 GB Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_ZenXtra/features.asp

Compare that to just under $500 for a 40GB iPod: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

Does Apple honestly expect me to buy a $500 hard-drive powered mp3 player if I can't replace the battery? This single factor is a complete hangup for me. Am I being unreasonable?

The Nomad has a replaceable battery, but is the iPod's user interface really $200 (67%) nicer?

is the iPod's user interface really $200 (67%) nicer?
yes. it is.

i currently own 2 ipods, and have owned a total of 3 (upgraded). the simplicity and ease of use is definately worth the extra money. it is almost completely effortless! If you are worried about the battery, it can be replaced by apple for $99, even less if you want to attempt it yourself. inmost states you can purchase a 2 year extended warranty, which covers the battery, for around $60.

one major plus of the ipod is its compatibility with the MINI. i purchased a dension ice-link and i now have my entire music library, on my ipod, available to me from my MFSW!

I gave Stephanie a 20GB IPod for her birthday, and bought myself a 30GB Nomad Zen Xtra for Xmas. The IPod definitely wins the coolness award. It's smaller, lighter, and the user interface is slightly superior. However, the sound quality, capacity/$, and battery life are much better on the Nomad. I don't know why but the headphones driver in the IPod seems to be relatively weak, while the Nomad is particularly strong.

The ITunes software for the IPod is also better than anything I've found for the Nomad. Music availability seems to be about the same for both IPod and (the new, not really) Napster--that means a lot of what I want to buy isn't available, but if you like what you hear on the radio you shouldn't have too much trouble. One additional advantage of the Nomad is that it plays WMA files, which you can play on any PC (and most non-Apple MP3 players).

All in all I'm glad I gave Stephanie the IPod and I'm glad I got the Nomad.

I've looked around and found that for under $300 I can get a 40 GB Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_ZenXtra/features.asp

Compare that to just under $500 for a 40GB iPod: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

Does Apple honestly expect me to buy a $500 hard-drive powered mp3 player if I can't replace the battery? This single factor is a complete hangup for me. Am I being unreasonable?

The Nomad has a replaceable battery, but is the iPod's user interface really $200 (67%) nicer?


In a word, yes. Of course as stated above the battery is completely replaceable iPod as well.

THE IPOD...... i wont say any more

I have two 40gb ipods, charged both twice only, both have to go back to Apple for POOOR battery time!

3 hours on a full charge!

Very dissapointed!!!

I also had a problem with battery life, but got a brand new replacement from AppleCare under the standard warranty. At first I thought I was just expecting too much from the iPod, but the replacement works much better; I can now go a few days of random playing, and before it would only last a little over 3 hours, max. Can't comment to the versus Nomad thing though...

-Nick

I also had a problem with battery life, but got a brand new replacement from AppleCare under the standard warranty. At first I thought I was just expecting too much from the iPod, but the replacement works much better; I can now go a few days of random playing, and before it would only last a little over 3 hours, max. Can't comment to the versus Nomad thing though...

-Nick

I average 8+ hours with my 40 gig.

Don't limit yourself to those two MP3 players - look around at some of the other offerings from vendors such as Dell and iRiver.

iPod is nice, and if you want to have it with you all the time, then the extra money for the compactness and user interface is probably worth the extra money.

I personally went for a 20gb Dell DJ and am very happy with it. Easy to use, awesome battery life (16+ hours) and I have always had excellet customer service with Dell (although some have not, YMMV).

I worked for Creative for close to 5 years and helped launch the NOMAD series.
It's like this: You can buy a Hyundai Elantra for $12k or you can buy a MINI for $18k. Is the MINI really worth that much more? in a word, ABSOLUTELY.

User interface, software experience, driver reliability, Firewire compatibility, form factor, "cool" factor...the IPod is worth every penny over a Nomad.

The Nomad also can't play AAC files from the iTunes music store, which is worth ten times what they charge for using it (it's free). Download iTunes first. Try the music store for auditioning songs and compare that experience to buymusic.com or any other online music store and you'll see why people are swarming to iTunes in double the numbers anyone else is getting.

I have the NOMAD Zen Xtra 40Gb, it works.


I am not thrilled with the user I/F, but now that it is setup, it works for me.

I tried a few different iPod examples, and I am not really seeing a huge difference. The sound quality out of the NOMAD is definitely better. I tried iTunes, but since I am a windows user, the extra processes it runs in the background really ticked me off.........


anyhow, thats my 10 cents.

Don't limit yourself to those two MP3 players - look around at some of the other offerings from vendors such as Dell and iRiver.

iPod is nice, and if you want to have it with you all the time, then the extra money for the compactness and user interface is probably worth the extra money.

I personally went for a 20gb Dell DJ and am very happy with it. Easy to use, awesome battery life (16+ hours) and I have always had excellet customer service with Dell (although some have not, YMMV).

That's right.
Remember, Dell now sells the iPod :D

The biggest advantage for Mac users is that the iPod can work as a storage drive as well. I can boot from mine and run diags if need be. Haven't needed to but I do often use it to carry files home that are too big to email
The dailies for LOTR were carried on an iPod :)

That's right.
Remember, Dell now sells the iPod :D

The biggest advantage for Mac users is that the iPod can work as a storage drive as well. I can boot from mine and run diags if need be. Haven't needed to but I do often use it to carry files home that are too big to email
The dailies for LOTR were carried on an iPod :)


yep, for apple users the drive shows up as a drive...........for the rest of us, they look primarily the same.....drop in a folder that magically turns into your mp3 player

i use my nomad for moving files to and from work all the time.

In a word, yes. Of course as stated above the battery is completely replaceable iPod as well.Well, there's replaceable, then there's replaceable. I hardly consider $99 plus shipping (and waiting for the roundtrip) "completely replaceable".

I worked for Creative for close to 5 years and helped launch the NOMAD series.
It's like this: You can buy a Hyundai Elantra for $12k or you can buy a MINI for $18k. Is the MINI really worth that much more? in a word, ABSOLUTELY.

User interface, software experience, driver reliability, Firewire compatibility, form factor, "cool" factor...the IPod is worth every penny over a Nomad.

The Nomad also can't play AAC files from the iTunes music store, which is worth ten times what they charge for using it (it's free). Download iTunes first. Try the music store for auditioning songs and compare that experience to buymusic.com or any other online music store and you'll see why people are swarming to iTunes in double the numbers anyone else is getting.


wow - that's some great insight!

That's right.
Remember, Dell now sells the iPod :D

The biggest advantage for Mac users is that the iPod can work as a storage drive as well. I can boot from mine and run diags if need be. Haven't needed to but I do often use it to carry files home that are too big to email
The dailies for LOTR were carried on an iPod :)

Dell stopped selling the iPod right before it released it's own MP3 player. HP has joined with Apple to market a HP labeled iPod, and there were many Windows fans hoping that meant the HP version would support WMA (not going to happen according to both Apple and HP though).

The Dell is made by Creative, but is different from what Creative offers - the Dell DJ is smaller, has better battery life and a better UI.

Most MP3 players can be used as external hard drives - some (like the DJ) require a small driver to be loaded first. The DJ shows up just like a normal hard drive in Explorer. I can't boot from it though. The new version of software that Dell just released allows drag-n-drop music transfer which is much nicer than going through Music Match, Napster or other supported music portal.

There is a company called Red Chair that makes third party apps for many of the MP3 players (including Creative, Dell and Apple) for Windows users that add convience to the player. I have it for my DJ and it is well worth the $25 IMO.

I seriously considered a iPod, but in the end it wasn't worth the extra money to me. If I was to carry it around with me all the time, then I probably would have bought one. I bought my 20GB DJ for $260 and it came with a case and a remote, and looks better than the iPod (IMO, of course; beauty is in the eye of the beholder). What really pushed me away from the iPod is some of the Apple guys here at work. I was checking out their iPods when I was trying to make a decision and I had asked them if they had tried any other MP3 players. Almost all of them said "no, there are no other players" and started spewing Apple marketing crap. That was enough for me to look elsewhere to avoid becoming "one of them". Not all Apple guys are that way of course, but there sure seem to be a very large percentile of them that are. You can see these types of guys in action on all of the consumer reveiw websites (such as eopinions.com) giving very demeaning reviews of MP3 players they've never even tried. Sad, really, that these people who think that Apple has set them free from being a conformist are being one themselves and have such a narrow view.

I really do like the iPod - it's a GREAT player that is the number one HD-based player for a reason. However, there are other players out there that may meet your needs for less money - for me that was the Dell. If Apple hadn't put such an insane price on the iPod Mini, I would have bought one of those as well for the convience of the small form factor.

I've looked around and found that for under $300 I can get a 40 GB Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_ZenXtra/features.asp

Compare that to just under $500 for a 40GB iPod: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

Does Apple honestly expect me to buy a $500 hard-drive powered mp3 player if I can't replace the battery? This single factor is a complete hangup for me. Am I being unreasonable?

The Nomad has a replaceable battery, but is the iPod's user interface really $200 (67%) nicer?

Was this just a troll post..? Why no further contribution from the original poster..?
If it's not just trolling, here's my opinion...
Are you really going to buy an MP3 player based on whether it has a replacable battery that you *might* need to replace in 3 or 4 year's time..??!! :eek: That's a long time to be living with poor ergonomics, poor UI, larger, heavier player etc etc etc.
If it comes down to price, there's the Elantra analogy above...
If it comes down to using it day to day, the iPod wins - just read almost any review and see the opinion of an ex-Creative employee above.
The implementation of iTunes and iTunes Music Store on the PC is almost identical to the Mac versions, and as long as you've got a decent PC it runs well.
If you even think you want the iPod, get the iPod... otherwise, go and buy the Elantra and spend the money you've saved on beer to drown the regret of not getting the one you really wanted..!! ;)

And another thing...
Look at what you're driving... Was the S really worth that much more than the Cooper..? Was the H/K stereo really worth that much more than the stock system..?

Come on... get the iPod, you know it makes sense..!!! :D

And another thing...
Look at what you're driving... Was the S really worth that much more than the Cooper..? Was the H/K stereo really worth that much more than the stock system..?

Come on... get the iPod, you know it makes sense..!!! :D
Trolling? :)

The MCS has 43% more HP than the Cooper, and it shows. It drives like it's worth $5K more than the Cooper. I just wanted to see if the iPod was really worth the major increase in cost. I'm sure all the iPod owners are a little bit biased... the replacement of the battery is increasingly important in my mind. If I'm going to use this thing daily like my cell phone, I need a replaceable battery.

Anyway, I hadn't looked into the Dell MP3 players... silly that they need a driver, though. Most USB storage has been Win2000 and XP compatible right out of the box. Carrying a floppy around to load a driver is a hassle.

I guess I'm just picky. That's why I chose the MCS... I got exactly the features I wanted and got a good value.

Thanks to everyone for their useful input. Mini2 is the best!

Trolling? :)

The MCS has 43% more HP than the Cooper, and it shows. It drives like it's worth $5K more than the Cooper. I just wanted to see if the iPod was really worth the major increase in cost. I'm sure all the iPod owners are a little bit biased...

And all S owners are biased... ;) If you want people to tell you to get the Nomad, go to a Nomad forum, if you want people to tell you to get the iPod, go to an iPod forum. If you ask here and the consensus is that the iPod is better, you might have to consider that it could be the better player...!

the replacement of the battery is increasingly important in my mind. If I'm going to use this thing daily like my cell phone, I need a replaceable battery.

How many times have you replaced a cell phone battery separate from the whole phone..? You're harder on batteries than anyone I know if you have (unless you're using a Nextel - those things EAT batteries). In 3 years time, there will be a smaller, neater, better player from Apple or someone else and the technology will have moved on (or RIAA will have killed it off :rolleyes: ) I really can't believe you are going to buy a player based on the battery which is intended by the manufacturers to be adequate for the life of the product. Did you check what brand of battery MINI installed before you bought it..? You might find you're replacing it after 10 years where a Honda one would last for 12... Still, if my last conclusion wasn't what you wanted to hear, try this. Buy the Nomad it's an MP3 player with a removable battery - you can't go wrong..!
;)

Yes. i am biased, because i own one, but i still think that it is the best player out there for so many reasons. To be honest, the battery isn't even a concern, and i have used my ipod nearly every day for 2 1/2 years!

If you are concerned about price... try this:
CompUSA is offering 10% off all Electronics items when you sue coupon code "ELECTRONICS" during checkout. Use the code to drop the price of the 15GB iPod to $269.97, the 20GB iPod to $360 and the 40GB iPod $450. Ground shipping is a penny. Sale ends on 3/13/04 at midnight.
or this:
The Apple Store offers its factory-refurbished iPod 20GB MP3 player, with dock and carrying case, for $299 in its Special Deals section.

if you are so concerned about the battery that you are willing to give up functionality and ease of use then go with the nomad, but as GadgetGav said, i have never replaced my cell phone battery (and i use it several hours a day) nor have i had the need to replace my ipod battery.

BTW, i take it that you own a windows computer? try out iTunes, it's free and it will geive you an idea of the functionality of the ipod (it seamlessly copies what is in your library to the ipod without you even asking - there is of course a setting to do it manually if you like)

I am NOT biased and i own 2 40gb Ipods!

They are both being collected (allegedly) today, they are less than 1 month old, have been charged 2 times each and absolute CRAP battery life!

These were straight from the factory, ordered from Apple!

If you want the best built and looking unit the ipod is your machine, but, the build quality excludes BATTERIES!!

I am considering HI-MD, my MDLP walkman lasts forever and ATRAC compression is the BEST sounding bar none!

Also, if you are into MIX LP's you are stuffed with MP3, whichever unit you go for, you have to convert them to 1 long track unless you want a bloody gap inbetween each track!

Ditto live and/or concept albums!

Well let me start by saying I work for Apple Computer, and I own an iPod. At Apple we are starting our own Mini club because there is about 31 of us now, kind of scary.

The iPod team puts huges efforts into user experience and ease of use. Apple continues to strive to create a music player that excites the senses yet powerful enough to met the need of the music industry. iTunes is simply the best for downloading music, and Europe it is coming for you to. I also just bought an iPod Mini, the Electric Blue is also a dead ringer for my Mini's Electric Blue color and already I am getting comments like that is the Bomb, and Mini for his Mini. Apple uses Hard Drive technology which increases the of the unit, and with an AppleCare warranty the battary issue is not a problem. I have the orignal 5 GB iPod and it works just as well and holds a charge as it did t he day I got it. Now that I have the Mini version, the 5 GB will be use as a hard drive.

You know there is something to be said fo rthe WOW factor, and with the AUX jack in my MCS, I just plug in and GO no FM Modulator.

OK OK... So the battery hangup is just that... a hangup. I just bumped into the iRiver iHP-120 and 140... those look like they're a little closer to iPod quality, but still targeted for the IBM user. The more I read, it seems that Nomad has some big down sides: chief in my book is that you need to install drivers to use it as a hard drive and the UI is clunky.

I really should go and get my hands on one of each (iRiver and iPod) and see which is best. UI is very important and if I have the device for a couple years, the extra $50 - 100 per year for that improvement is probably worth it. Neither device has replacable battery, so they're even on that issue.

I just hate spending $300 - 500 on a personal audio device that's scheduled for obsolescence in 2-3 years. In 5 years they may have one that holds 200 GB and reads my mind to tell what song I want played next, but I'd still like the option of using my old manual MP3 device if I want. (trolling again, right :rolleyes: )

Sheesh... you make a few picky comments about the iPod and you nearly get flamed in this place. :eek: You'd think this was iPod2, not MINI2. :)

UI is very important and if I have the device for a couple years, the extra $50 - 100 per year for that improvement is probably worth it.

that is a good point. remember you are operating this thing while driving. not the safest thing to do especially if it takes your attention away from the road for more than a second.

test them both out, in person. then make up your mind for yourself.

"I just hate spending $300 - 500 on a personal audio device that's scheduled for obsolescence in 2-3 years"

Is your music going to be obsolete in 2-3 years? the iPod will still play music, store data, synchronize with your calendar and appointment book in 2-3 years like it does now.

Sure, shiny new ones will be out in another 6 months...but if the one you've got does its job, who needs 'em?

"I just hate spending $300 - 500 on a personal audio device that's scheduled for obsolescence in 2-3 years"

Is your music going to be obsolete in 2-3 years? the iPod will still play music, store data, synchronize with your calendar and appointment book in 2-3 years like it does now.

Sure, shiny new ones will be out in another 6 months...but if the one you've got does its job, who needs 'em?
No the music isn't obsolete... the iPod itself wasn't designed to last more than 2-3 years. i.e. planned obsolescence. I've heard 500 recharges (New York Times) is what is tyical for the battery before it fails. I know I can pay the extra $59 up front for a warranty... I should just count that as part of the purchase price and use that for comparison.

We'll, it's between the iRiver and the iPod, then. If if was cool factor alone, the iPod wins easily.

I wasn't trying to flame - I hope you didn't think that... I was just trying to direct you the way I thought you should go and point out the battery thing was not where you should be focussing.
As USACOOPER-S says, you can always use an old iPod as a FireWire HD when it becomes obsolete. The rumor I hear today is that there's a 60Gb iPod in the pipeline... Any comment USACOOPER-S..?? ;)

I just got the latest issue of Mac Addict and found that you can change out the battery on an iPod yourself for $49.

I thought I'd throw some gasoline (petrol?) on this thread by adding the iRiver iHP series MP3 players to the thread. I just found a deal on Amazon.com for the iHP-140, the 40 GB capacity player... $369 after rebate.

Here's the web site for the iHP-140:
http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-140.asp
Here's the FAQ for the iHP series:
http://www.iriveramerica.com/support/iHP_FAQ.asp


Here's my pros/cons analysis:

Pros:
- Significantly lower cost than the iPod 40 GB model
- Oriented toward Windows users (like me)
- driverless portable hard drive for Win2000/XP
- After installing the iRiver software on your PC, you simply drag/drop any files you want to the iHP, then right click on it and select "Update Database" which updates the Artist, Title, Genre info for use when navigating to select songs.
- Full function remote control with display included
- Its height and width are nearly identical to the iPod, so it will fit in the Belkin iPod cupholder mount.
- has an FM tuner and voice recorder built in
- can rip audio files via line in jack


Cons:
- Like the iPod, it has a sealed battery (unreplaceable, until someone figures out a hack to open it yourself). iRiver's site says their battery is tested to give 80% full charges after 3000 discharge/recharge cycles (I'll believe that when I see it)
- remote control uses totally different interface than the unit itself... definitely not as slick as the iPod, but far better than the Creative Nomad
- hardly any accessories made for it... especially power adapters for the car.

Anyone else have an iRiver iHP and have 2 cents to add?