Ok, so a friend of mine has just bought a Ford Focus ST170, be rude not to drive it once offered!
Bugger me it's fast, obviously not RS performance but eFFing Fast!

So Dilemma, new Mini Cooper S= 6 month wait plus pay silly prices for extras! Or Focus , hardly any wait, decent price on extras ie full leather, climate, xenons and metallic paint for £500!!!! Plus free 1 yrs insurance !

Hmm, Mini more style and less depreciation, Focus a bit like a clitoris(every fanny's got one)!

I think it's probably still a MIni BUT, BUT .... HELP!

Is this equivalent to the US version of the Focus named the SVT (special vehicle team)? Maybe the "ST170" represents the 170 hp it makes from the 2.0L...?

http://www.forbes.com/images/2001/02/12/feat_rear_377x240.jpg

come on!

this should not be hard at all... the mini is a classic, the ford focus is not!

if you want pace there are many things one can do with a supercharged engine compared to a naturally aspirated engine..
go the MCS...

biggest let down for the ford IMO is the blue oval badge that say's FORD.... c'mon how many focus drivers wave and flash each other, have regional clubs up and down the country dedicated to them???

no competition in my mind

Imagine the depreciation that the Ford will suffer when the Focus is replaced very soon and the ST is rendered obsolete.

Ford has made some memorable performance versions of mundane cars many times before and some completely forgotten ones. I doubt that the ST170 will be counted amongst the greats.

I know that it has been said before on Top Gear, but ask any female what the initials "ST" really stand for and then try and take the name seriously!

As for the wait, 6 months is a long time. However, I suspect that in 4 to 5 months of ST ownership you will be wondering what your next car will be OR (if you make the right choice now!) you could be looking forward to the imminent arrival of your new Cooper S. Which would you prefer?

Tigger.

PS Buy the MCS and come and see wylie eyed and the rest of us at a MiNiCornwall club meeting soon!

I'm sure it is a good car but your S will be way quicker than the ST170.

I've read a few reviews of this car and most said it wasn't quick or exciting enough to be a real hot hatch.

If you want something bigger than a MINI and quick try a hot Leon or Civic type-R

I have Ford Focus as a company car and have to say it does drive and handle extremely well and its probably one the best cars Ford makes................but if its fun and grins you want and dont forget residuls only Ford can dream of then it has to be the MINI Cooper S you should get.


dinger.:)

Ok, so a friend of mine has just bought a Ford Focus ST170, be rude not to drive it once offered!
Bugger me it's fast, obviously not RS performance but eFFing Fast!

So Dilemma, new Mini Cooper S= 6 month wait plus pay silly prices for extras! Or Focus , hardly any wait, decent price on extras ie full leather, climate, xenons and metallic paint for £500!!!! Plus free 1 yrs insurance !

Hmm, Mini more style and less depreciation, Focus a bit like a clitoris(every fanny's got one)!

I think it's probably still a MIni BUT, BUT .... HELP!

Right i want you to step back, read what you have typed, then come back and say sorry! :D

I know what you mean because before i ordered my S i had my eye on a Type R, found a really nice one, and went to have alook, as soon as i stood there and tryed to imagine having this car for at least a year, i knew that i would always be thinking why didn't i get the S!!

So i would get your S, then if you then still keep thinking about the Focus, sell your S, you will get very good money for it, then go and get the Focus. But i honestly dont think that will happen, as soon as you get your S!!

ST170: 0-60 - 8.2sec, top speed - 134mph

MCS: 0-60 - 7.4sec, top speed - 135mph

MCS will handle better, be more fun and is just cool....... theres your answer. although i think youll get a different answer on a ford forum, they cant dispute the facts, although theyll proberbly start shoutin about engine conversions and way to tune it up to beat a stock MCS... thats the usual response for people grasping at straws

Advantage of the ST170 is you can get them for £13K new at a car supermarket. Disadvantage - the resullting depreciation!

I'd go for the Cooper S anyday (having driven both). The ST170 doesn't feel that quick. If you want something bigger than a MINI the Type R beats the Focus hands down - again based on experience.

Ok, so a friend of mine has just bought a Ford Focus ST170, be rude not to drive it once offered!
Bugger me it's fast, obviously not RS performance but eFFing Fast!

So Dilemma, new Mini Cooper S= 6 month wait plus pay silly prices for extras! Or Focus , hardly any wait, decent price on extras ie full leather, climate, xenons and metallic paint for £500!!!! Plus free 1 yrs insurance !

Hmm, Mini more style and less depreciation, Focus a bit like a clitoris(every fanny's got one)!

I think it's probably still a MIni BUT, BUT .... HELP!THINK YOU'LL FIND THE FOLLOWING DISCUSSIONS INTERESTING:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29573&highlight=st170

MY ONLY COMMENT WOULD BE, just remember what F.O.R.D stand for i.e. Fails On Race Day !! I'd have the MCS every time ...

Check this site out - proves!! which is the better (MCS of course)

http://www.jsread.com/tvr/quartermile.htm

Basically the ¼ of a mile times have all been programmed in and you can simulate races!! The ST170, Cooper S, Cooper S Works and the Cooper S BBR are all included!!

Check this site out - proves!! which is the better (MCS of course)

http://www.jsread.com/tvr/quartermile.htm

Basically the ¼ of a mile times have all been programmed in and you can simulate races!! The ST170, Cooper S, Cooper S Works and the Cooper S BBR are all included!!

that is a cool little feature... just spent bout half an hr messin about on it.

i wonder which BBR MCS it is tho, 220, 240, 255 or 275. id proberbly say the 220 as its only a bit quicker than the works and in real life, the bbr220 is on a few .1's of a second quicker.

Hey guys, less of the Ford bashing eh? As mass produced cars, Fords are pretty damn good. Mini shouldn't be about badge snobbery either should it? think original mini- everyone from john lennon to royalty to working class folk had one.

ANYWAY, i had a 1.6 focus before the mini. it handled well, had a strong engine and was generally decent. felt special compared to a golf or astra etc but the mini is FAR more special than the focus. drove an ST170 before I bought the cooper (non-S) and didn't think it was much faster than my 1.6. granted, my car was a bit thrashed so was loose , but even so. 170bhp against 100bhp so the ST should've at least felt noticeably quicker.

cooper is far better than the ST. drove an S a couple of times and it's a league above the Focus.

go for the mini!

I was considering a ST170 before buying my MCS. At the time, about 18 months ago, they had a major problem with the brake pedal going all the way to the floor prior to turning the ignition on, once the engine was running it was ok but any problem with the brakes sort of scared me off, there were numerous aggravated ST170 owners on the net forums voicing their dissatisfaction with Ford and their lack of acknowledging there was a problem.

Plus the fact that they all seem to come in one colour, the same as the diesel I think. They may have been different/innotative in the design dept. 5-6 years ago but just look dated now and the dash is horrible, huge lump of sweeping plastic.

18 months ago I was really finding it difficult to find a hot hatch that was different and had decent performance, didn't want any of that cheap French rubbish. Alfa's were a consideration for styling but you may as well throw you money down the drain for depreciation. Wasn't a great fan of the New Mini, so it look like I 'd go for a Beemer Saloon. Went to the local dealership and their was an E/B MCS waiting to be collected and after a test drive, had to have one.! 12 months later went JCW and that was worth every penny and moresome, just makes me smile more and more everyday. Still turns every head you drive past, even old people!!!!

Followed an MCS today and they just look so good, it's just the way they sit on the road, it's wide on the floor and just seems to taper up to the roof line that just makes them look so sure footed. Plus standard or JCW they will absolutely embarrass ST170's, I speak from experience!!!!

Cooper S. I dont think the st is fast. Terrible off cam as its variable valve timing.

NO CONTEST!!!

It has to be a COOPER S . the new S has the same BHP as the FOCUS, the S will be lighter, handle better and will have a LOT better build quality.

The 05 S is now 170bhp 0-60 7.0secs 138mph :D
ST170 170bhp 0-60 8.4secs 134mph :mad:

How could you even consider the HORRIBLE FOCUS. :confused:

Please don`t swear on this FORUM and F**D is a four letter word that should not be seen here!!!

Dark. I think your being a bit optimistic on the 05 MCS being 7.0 secs. The JCW was tested by EVO at 6.9 and that's got 30 bhp more?

Dark. I think your being a bit optimistic on the 05 MCS being 7.0 secs. The JCW was tested by EVO at 6.9 and that's got 30 bhp more?
don't forget the new shorter box;)

not sayin it's 7 tho.........

Just going by new broucher which said 0-62 7.2

Check out the evo report, either last months or the one before. The Cooper S went against a ST170, Civic Type R, 206 180 gti and Clio 182. The Clio took top spot, (if I remember correctly) seperated by the slimmest margin to the Cooper S. The ST170 and the Civic were next, the ford getting glowing reports for it's chassis, the Civic for it's power. The 180 gti was last.

I had a ford before my cooper s, and the dealers were pretty poor, the depreciation was huge, and the gearbox had to be replaced! I don not imagine this would happen to a ST170, which is renowned for being a great car, but just an observation. The Focus gets replaced very soon with a new car, so bear in mind the car wil be worth even less. Cool wheels on the ST though!

Nev.

No brainer.
I don’t have to read this thread to know I am only echoing what’s already been said.

The FORD is:
Bad mannered.
Unpredictable.
Nothing to look at.
Will get stolen twice a week.
Will loose money faster than British Rail.

Come on, stop teasing, you aren’t serious… ARE YOU?????

Ted

just wondering why you would be keen on the Ford opposed to say... the renault clio cup/sport

i would have that that would be a serious contender... or maybe the opel astra turbo?

Them st engines are known to have their fair share of faults though, they are not the most reliable of engines, and won't be used in the next generation of st in the focus. Is nowhere near as good as the basic 2.0 engine, for reliabilty - obviously. I will say though, it is a good value car. But one thing tht still to this day suprises me, its only one insurance group down on the focus rs!! ST is group 15, and the RS 16!!!!!

Dark,

I would take with a pinch of salt all manufactures figures for 0-60 mph. All of them produce those times in ideal conditions with a very minimally equipped car, therefore in theory if one manufacturer quotes 7.0 seconds and say Renault quote 7.2 for a Clio then in reality the 0.2 sec gap will probably be the same but when tested by a mag like Evo both will almost certainly be slower.

Dark,

I would take with a pinch of salt all manufactures figures for 0-60 mph.
I think you will find that manufactures are not allowed to publish info that is not correct. Speed trials have to be done in the same car that is offered to the buying public (base model).

If the figures were fabricated Mini / BMW would be liable for misrepresentation, the same as any car maker. Yes 0-60 speed trials are done in a controlled enviroment, but all car manufactures are governed by a code of practice regarding the conditions and weight of driver etc. All new car speed trials are done by independents. Thus to make it fair.

I will try and find a report I read about a year ago off the AA web site and post it when I have time. This explains in detail how the speed tests are done.

Mmmmm....

http://www.focussport.com/images/www-typ.gif

Them st engines are known to have their fair share of faults though, they are not the most reliable of engines, and won't be used in the next generation of st in the focus. Is nowhere near as good as the basic 2.0 engine, for reliabilty - obviously. I will say though, it is a good value car. But one thing tht still to this day suprises me, its only one insurance group down on the focus rs!! ST is group 15, and the RS 16!!!!!

The new Focus ST will be getting the mondeo V6, according to this weeks AutoExpress now that would be interesting.

I have considered the ST170 because it would be more practical than a mini as the wife already drives a ONE and not sure two minis on a drive makes sense, thinking I will get the Cooper S and she will have to change the ONE,
haven't discussed this with her yet.

For what it's worth I had both a Focus ST170 (company car) and a Cooper S (own) at the same time and on paper they may seem similar but in the real world they are completely different. Basicically, you don't step out of a ST with a big grin like the S or look back when walking away.

The ST is a good handling car but the S is far superior. You sit nice an low in the S but with the ST you always felt that you were sitting on top of the car not in it. However, the Recaro seats were far superior and more supportive than the S "sports" seats.

The ST is a car but the S is an experience !

A work of caution though....I had both of them stolen on the same night so they are as equally desirable !

At least in EVo the S is their choice and the ST is not mentioned!!! Not even in best of the rest.

My mum used to have a Focus...