Please can somebody give me some advise on a dilemma I am experiencing.

My Cooper recently needed to go to my local dealer (Sewell BMW) as I was experiencing a problem with my gearbox. I received a phone call from Sewell today explaining that the car will need a new gearbox fitted and unfortunately its not covered under the warranty as I have fitted an aftermarket exhaust and have also installed a cold air intake, or induction kit as they called it, and the cost for a replacement gearbox will be £1800!

I was able to locate a thread with a wording from BMW UK - http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61022&highlight=warranty

The wording would certainly give me every reason to dispute what Sewell have said, I would just like advise from anyone on this, should I dispute this?, does anyone know of anyone I can contact?, where do you think I should go from here?

I look forward to receiving any responses on this.

Thats a downer :(

How about put another Zorst on standardise it and take it to a different dealer?

I would suggest you go and talk to them. See what communication they have had with BMW themselves. If they have attempted a warranty clain centrally and told them about the modifications and BMW have declined, then the option of removing them and going to another dealer is not open to you. Trading the car in at another dealers might be rumbled for the same reason. If you had turboed your car to 300bhp then I would understand their unwillingness to fix the car under warranty but the modest gains in torque and bhp caused by your modifications would be unlikely to have caused the problem. The well known gearbox problems in early cars in particular are far more likely to be the cause of the problem and threatening them with the small claims court on that basis (which I think has a £2000 ceiling) would be reasonable.
So talk to them, tell them about bad publicity and the gentle modding that BMW have encouraged and see what they say!

first of all sorry to hear you are having this problem:(

right, now time to get to work, as far as I am aware for a claim to be thrown out, they must be able to prove that those modifications to your car are what has caused the gearbox failure. Which they won't have, then if I were you I search MINI2 for as much information on gearbox failures, especially the old style box, which I think yours has. Start to build as much information as possible on the fault, as it is a common fault and the reason that the gear box was changed to a Getrag box;)

Then go see your stealer in person and find out why they are saying that your gearbox has failed due to those mods, document everything, every word, and communication with them, as if worse comes to worse, you will have to fight! I would also say that at this point to start checking on consumer law and rights;)

That should not affect your warranty. They have to prove that the cai and exhaust damage the gearbox. Also there is a history of gearbox failures throughout the mini2 threads.
I don't remember what the law is called but is mentioned a bunch in the threads, look around, but mini has to prove the your upgrades caused the failure not the other way around.
just be persistent
-B

THEY have to prove the parts you fitted caused the gearbox to fail. The law is there to protect you, other wise everyone who fitted new tyres/wheels/radio/different spark plugs would have no warranty. Fight this all the way - good luck and keep us posted...

Isnt there something on if the part has failed on another Mini in the past without mods then they dont have a leg to stand on ?, I think that what Rakey was eluding to....

I believe Max had a failed supercharger replaced under warranty even though he had modded his engine to 220 bhp ?, as they had seen the same failure before on an unmodified car therefore they couldnt prove his failure had been caused by the mods...

there seems to be a few people having problems with warranty claims, and this is the second i've heard of on gearboxes alone, has MINI started clamping down ?....

Thank you everybody for your helpful advise, its much appreciated.

I have formulated a letter, which I have faxed to my dealership today, which goes along the lines of this (i wont type it word for word, but might if I win this case so others can look it up if they get into a similar situation).

'You are currently in possession of my Mini Cooper, which was recovered to you last week, after suffering from a transmission fault.

After speaking to you yesterday I was informed that my car required a new gearbox, but you considered it a non-warranty repair. This is an incorrect and unfair decision, which I urge you to reconsider:

The salient points are:

You state that the warranty is invalidated by two minor modifications made by myself over the past 6 months.

I am in possession of a communication by BMW UK which states that:

The stance that MINI has taken is as follows: .....

If you were to opt for such a conversion the warranty would be voided on any parts replaced and the labour carried out by the converter. If an issue was to arise where a fault had been caused by any work carried out or part fitted by the converter this would also not be covered by the warrenty. But having it fitted would not void the entire warranty.

Jo Wickens
Customer Information

The minor modifications to the air intake and exhaust rear pipe/silencer fall within the remit of BMW's advise as they have negligible effect on the power characteristics of the car, and certainly could not be responsible for major gearbox failure.

Such gearbox failures have been relatively common on pre-facelift Mini's.

Regardless of interpretation of warranty terms, consumer protection legislation clearly covers the scope of this particular case.

I ask you, in association with BMW UK to cover this repair as a warranty item, as it is clearly within the scope of the warranty; Perhaps you could phone me at you earliest convenience (telephone no.),

Yours faithfully


(by fax)



I will keep you all posted on what Mini have to say and let you know what the outcome is.

Thank you everybody for your helpful advise, its much appreciated.

I have formulated a letter, which I have faxed to my dealership today, which goes along the lines of this (i wont type it word for word, but might if I win this case so others can look it up if they get into a similar situation).

'You are currently in possession of my Mini Cooper, which was recovered to you last week, after suffering from a transmission fault.

After speaking to you yesterday I was informed that my car required a new gearbox, but you considered it a non-warranty repair. This is an incorrect and unfair decision, which I urge you to reconsider:

The salient points are:

You state that the warranty is invalidated by two minor modifications made by myself over the past 6 months.

I am in possession of a communication by BMW UK which states that:



The minor modifications to the air intake and exhaust rear pipe/silencer fall within the remit of BMW's advise as they have negligible effect on the power characteristics of the car, and certainly could not be responsible for major gearbox failure.

Such gearbox failures have been relatively common on pre-facelift Mini's.

Regardless of interpretation of warranty terms, consumer protection legislation clearly covers the scope of this particular case.

I ask you, in association with BMW UK to cover this repair as a warranty item, as it is clearly within the scope of the warranty; Perhaps you could phone me at you earliest convenience (telephone no.),

Yours faithfully


(by fax)



I will keep you all posted on what Mini have to say and let you know what the outcome is.

Good luck !, looks like a well worded response, clear, to the point, and doesnt get emotional, well done....

:D

I had the 207bhp GGR S200 Conversion. The Belt Tensioner assembly fractured, shredding the drive belt and damaging the crank and SC pulley wheels. BMW inspected the damage and decided it was a simple BMW part failure and was fixed under warranty.

M :) :red:

Thanks Max, I wasnt far off the the mark...

I live in Herts and will avoid. Good luck with your fight.
G :ibblack:



Thank you everybody for your helpful advise, its much appreciated.

I have formulated a letter, which I have faxed to my dealership today, which goes along the lines of this (i wont type it word for word, but might if I win this case so others can look it up if they get into a similar situation).

'You are currently in possession of my Mini Cooper, which was recovered to you last week, after suffering from a transmission fault.

After speaking to you yesterday I was informed that my car required a new gearbox, but you considered it a non-warranty repair. This is an incorrect and unfair decision, which I urge you to reconsider:

The salient points are:

You state that the warranty is invalidated by two minor modifications made by myself over the past 6 months.

I am in possession of a communication by BMW UK which states that:



The minor modifications to the air intake and exhaust rear pipe/silencer fall within the remit of BMW's advise as they have negligible effect on the power characteristics of the car, and certainly could not be responsible for major gearbox failure.

Such gearbox failures have been relatively common on pre-facelift Mini's.

Regardless of interpretation of warranty terms, consumer protection legislation clearly covers the scope of this particular case.

I ask you, in association with BMW UK to cover this repair as a warranty item, as it is clearly within the scope of the warranty; Perhaps you could phone me at you earliest convenience (telephone no.),

Yours faithfully


(by fax)



I will keep you all posted on what Mini have to say and let you know what the outcome is.

good letter, we are all waiting with you patiently for the reply;)

Have subscribed to this thread because I personally think my 04 cooper "May" be developing an issue with either the clutch or gearbox.

At present I have only a Cold air induction fitted.

I'm booked into Williams BMW on April 11th for a nasty vibration up front and some power issues with the car.

I'll be interested to know the outcome too.

Good luck! I too am waiting to hear your result with baited breath.
Another string to your bow is to let your dealer know that you are considering contacting the local press as well as your local MP. I've used those tactics in the past, the MP was really helpful and the speed at which the problem was solved was truly amazing once the local paper ran an article!
Keep us up to date buddy.

You'll easily win this. It's just a matter of time. Your case is flawless.

Relax and let justice do its work.

:D

When I was talking through the pros and cons of a new car (MINI) I asked the question of modding and the warrenty. The response was that the BMW MINI warrenty covers all faults unless the moddified part can be proven to directly have damaged the bust part. (Thats virtually a quote)

The example he used was if I fitted an induction kit and aftermarket exhaust and the car blew head gaskets or a similar part that was effected directly by the differences in back presssures or mixtures then the warrenty would be void. He even said to me that if I fitted the same mod but the gearbox or similar blew then because the exhaust had no direct effect to the gbox it would still be covered by the warrenty.

It was one of the selling points that he used, he said its a bonus because some warrenties are void as soon as you even dream of modding.

I think BMW might be trying to wriggle out of paying up, I don't think the dealer is the problem. Dealers get paid for warrenty work so they are usually not fussed wether is warrenty or not, I would suggest getting hold of a copy of the warrenty and reading it thourghly, if the wording does say the mod has to have directly effected the broken part (like my salesman said) I would say you have a case to argue....I think they would be hard pushed to prove that 6-8hp difference could put enough pressure on the gbox to break it. most cars have a BHP virience or a couple of BHP anyway so tollerences are built into the parts, plus as far as I know they dont change the box on the cooper when its tuned for the works conversion! and that adds 30+ BHP!! not the 8 or so your mods do.

This has become a bit of a cautionary tale for those with minor mods.
My dealer asked the BMW UK Technical rep to inspect the car
He said that although the Intake and Exhaust mods had little effect on the power, they were unauthorised
Therefore they voided the warranty as it applied to the drivetrain, but other parts of the warranty would be unaffected
In this case they would replace the gearbox under warranty, but would not provide any further warranty repairs to the drivetrain
The previous advice by Jo Wickens was no longer BMW policy and was never an official statement of fact


Although settled in my favour, this casts a shadow on anyone else who has fitted an induction kit or non-standard exhaust who might experience drivetrain problems. It would be politic for anyone contemplating these mods to contact their dealership first, or BMW UK for advice on the likely impact on their warranty, and if given the OK, to obtain this in writing.

The onus of Consumer Protection legislation for the selling agent to be required to prove damage only came into effect this year, and is not retrospective, so would only apply to very recent cars. BMW stated categorically to me that the terms of the warranty as printed in the owner documentation must be adhered to.

Incidently, they were quite happy to do a service under the TLC package despite the modifications, and the car has now been repaired and returned to me!

I've asked for their opinion as to whether returning the car to its original spec would allow them to restore the full warranty provisions- answer from BMW due next week.

glad to hear it all ended well for you, but think this could have a HUGE effect for others with mods:eek:

perhaps a thread title change so more people can hear of your experience;)

what a thread to find hours after fitting a Milltek exhaust to my Cooper, still my dealer is usually very understanding :D

Ady :cool:

My Pipercross intake was fitted by my dealer before I took delivery of the car. Therefore, I'd find it hard to accept any refusal for warranty work using that as an excuse. At no time did my dealer mention that the Pipercross would affect either warranty or TLC........and they have not mentioned it when the car has been in for service (TLC) or steering problems.

So, I should be OK.......:rolleyes:

I think Max makes a good point, writing a legally based letter to BMW will generate a letter which has to take the BMW hardline re warranty.

My car is chipped, lowered, has a Milltek exhaust and a strut brace fitted. Two weeks ago I had the clutch replaced under warranty as it was rattling. The car was taken in to be diagnosed and then left with them a week later while I was on holiday for the work to be done. The Service Manager was very helpful and never even mentioned the modifications. Even though the strut brace had to be removed for the clutch to be changed.

I think one has to accept that a completely standard car comes with a cast iron warranty and if you modify the car your on shakier ground. However, I would have argued very strongly if my garage had tried to refuse to do the work, given that the 210bhp JCW uses the same gearbox components as a standard S.

glad to hear it all ended well for you, but think this could have a HUGE effect for others with mods:eek:

perhaps a thread title change so more people can hear of your experience;)

Done :)

This has become a bit of a cautionary tale for those with minor mods.
My dealer asked the BMW UK Technical rep to inspect the car
He said that although the Intake and Exhaust mods had little effect on the power, they were unauthorised
Therefore they voided the warranty as it applied to the drivetrain, but other parts of the warranty would be unaffected
In this case they would replace the gearbox under warranty, but would not provide any further warranty repairs to the drivetrain
The previous advice by Jo Wickens was no longer BMW policy and was never an official statement of fact


Although settled in my favour, this casts a shadow on anyone else who has fitted an induction kit or non-standard exhaust who might experience drivetrain problems. It would be politic for anyone contemplating these mods to contact their dealership first, or BMW UK for advice on the likely impact on their warranty, and if given the OK, to obtain this in writing.

The onus of Consumer Protection legislation for the selling agent to be required to prove damage only came into effect this year, and is not retrospective, so would only apply to very recent cars. BMW stated categorically to me that the terms of the warranty as printed in the owner documentation must be adhered to.

Incidently, they were quite happy to do a service under the TLC package despite the modifications, and the car has now been repaired and returned to me!

I've asked for their opinion as to whether returning the car to its original spec would allow them to restore the full warranty provisions- answer from BMW due next week.


I have also been under the impression that dealers only get paid a set rate for warranty work, however dealers will chanrge much more for customer wor Sounds ike you dealer was just trying to get some extra cash out of you.

Plus any WORK done on the car by the delaer has to be covered by the warranty, surely as this work has been carried out this year, it would then come under the Consumer Protection Legislation. For any future issues.

Excellent advice Spoony :)
Glad things turned out OK in the end.

Glad it turned out for the best. Else a court case that could easily be won under the grounds that the gearbox manufacturer probably spec it at over 250bhp and that BMW themselves dont modify the gearbox when fitting the works kit.

Personally sounds like the dealer is trying to pull a fast one..... dodgy! id avoid this dealer at all costs. i've never had problems with a modified mini having warranty work on the engine.

I have also been under the impression that dealers only get paid a set rate for warranty work, however dealers will chanrge much more for customer wor
.


Manufacturers usually only allow the dealers to charge them 50% of their retail hourly rate

That should not affect your warranty. They have to prove that the cai and exhaust damage the gearbox. Also there is a history of gearbox failures throughout the mini2 threads.
I don't remember what the law is called but is mentioned a bunch in the threads, look around, but mini has to prove the your upgrades caused the failure not the other way around.
just be persistent
-B
For reference sake, I believe the law you are referring to is the Magnuson-Moss Act.

Good to hear you got a resolution Spoony!

Good news on the gearbox front Spoony.

Auto Express did a survey of dealers a few weeks ago and BMW/MINI came out worse. Something like 6 or 7 out of 14 BMW/MINI dealerships gave false/misleading/incorrect advice on the warranty if the car was legitimiately (under new laws) serviced elsewhere. You would expect to see more goodwill from a premium brand and it's shocking that the survey shows a premium brand as such scammers and should not be trusted.

Then there was the case recently in Auto Express of a driving instructor in his 2002 (pre-Getrag gearbox) MINI tuition car on his 5th gearbox! You would expect most gearboxes to withstand an element of abuse.

This is an interesting thread and I have two footnotes to add.

1. A lot will depend on the relationship you have with the dealer. Whilst many will toe the official party line there are others who are prepared to be more flexible. On M2 we have examples of both types of dealer - the problem is trying to find the more flexible one.

2. Following the manufacturers stance, doing mods on your car will invalidate the warranty (supposedly in cases where the mods have been deemed to have caused the problem). Does anyone want to risk the possibility of going to the expense of having to use independent reports to back up their own claim and also possibly be without a car that they use on a regular basis for an extended period of time? I know I wouldn't.

If you're ok on point 1 then it may help you with point 2 if you have any problems. If not you would need to be prepared for the worst case scenario of not being able to use your car properly until blame had been correctly apportioned, and how much this would mean to you financially and in terms of extra hassle.

I realize this appears to be a UK dominated thread....

In the US we have the Magnuson Moss act which essentially says the same that I believe exists in the UK. Only mods that explicitly impact the failed part is out of warranty. So a new exhaust will not invalidate the gearbox or suspension part of the warranty, just the exhaust part. The onus is on the dealer to prove the part caused the failure, not on the car owner to prove that it didn't cause the failure.