MINI2

bugiz · Sep 25th, 2006, 09:34 AM

How is it goin guys,

this will be my very first post and i'm thinking of getting a MINI for my first car...

BUT the question remains...
as i'm a p-plater is it legal to drive the MINI Cooper S or the JCW version??
and if not... is there a way of going around it... (oh pls god, tell me u r there, and make it so there is a way)

i checked Vicroads, and it is not on the BANNED LIST... but the guy at the dealer said that i CAN'T drive the S or the JCW... but there is a way..
when i buy the car, put it under mum's name and nominate me as the driver...
is there such thing??

thanks in advance for helping...
cheers guys

eb/w mini · Sep 25th, 2006, 09:52 AM

Man a jcw Mini for a first car.
Sorta puts my trusty 82 model auto sigma to shame.
As for the bit of driving one on your p plates i think its on the banned list.

minigolf · Sep 25th, 2006, 10:09 AM

VicRoads might be different to the RTA Chris. I thought VicRoads had a more common sense approach than the if it looks fast ban it method from the RTA. but I could be wrong??? MCS or JCW MCS may well be banned simply because they are supercharged?

Poor bugger might have to slum it in a lowly Cooper.

eb/w mini · Sep 25th, 2006, 10:24 AM

It is a bit odd that instead of more driver training the RTA figured if we ban them from driving anything more powerful then a suped up blender people will stop killing themselves on the roads.
**** Johnson said it best when he sed " Ban low performance drivers and not high performance cars" or something to that effect.
I do hope for bugiz sake that vicroads havnt banned the S.
Still id be well chuffed to driving a cooper for a first car.

MickyD · Sep 25th, 2006, 11:24 AM

limit is 125kw/T in Vic.
MCS is OK
JCW is probably borderline.

MickyD · Sep 25th, 2006, 11:25 AM

oh, might want to get a quote on insurance too.... good luck.....

doona · Sep 25th, 2006, 11:32 AM

MMMMM insurance for a p-plater with an MCS....... $pricey$

-Dan

FL00DY · Sep 25th, 2006, 12:52 PM

No offence, but I'm always intrigued why P platers think it's even a good idea to drive sports cars of any kind. Having said that, the dumb idea of banning high powered sports cars means P platers also miss out on some of the safest cars.

My advice, buy the Cooper. Not much point in owning a Cooper S with no points or killing a friend.

St00ge · Sep 25th, 2006, 03:06 PM

whatever car you do get mate, treat it with respect, as these little things can be very, very fast.

As long as you don't go berserk ALL the time, you should be fine

. Just realise that you're really lucky to get a MCS

They are awesome.
Might want to invest in some driver training and track time, as nothing will give you more control.
Floody you might have a point there, but i'd rather a sports car in the hands of a safe and capable p-plater than in those of someone with a full license and no idea at all, which i see a lot of

Enough of the patronizing safety talk now, enjoy yourself, good luck.
Drive safe
Elie

bugiz · Sep 26th, 2006, 01:20 AM

thanks guys for the help...
and as for the safe driving bit... no worries, I intend to keep our roads safe..

CONCLUSION:
so with VicRoads, I shouldn't have anything to worry about
BUT the insurance company might be a pain..

cheers again guys

St00ge · Sep 26th, 2006, 02:31 AM

Vicroads will let you drive a JCW i think (assuming the cops agree with the spec sheet saying that the car weighs 1240 kg).

I got my MCS at 18, and the insurance premium was 2850 for the first year. Now, in my second year, with no claims, i payed 2100. The insurance is fully under my name though. Don't put it under your mum or dad's name. Pointless, you pay less now, but more later.

One more thing, join clubMINI Vic

Smurfn · Sep 26th, 2006, 05:18 AM

Exciting

Good luck with getting the new car, I would have been happy with any of these for my first car

MickyD · Sep 26th, 2006, 06:05 AM

JCW is listed as 155kw's, and 1140kg's kerb weight, which is over the power to weight ratio limit.

drive.com.au - New Car Features

St00ge · Sep 26th, 2006, 01:21 PM

but i'd show them the spec sheet, which takes into account 75 kg of human weight and luggage weight, and a 90% full tank of fuel....

true weight is 1.14 tonne as micky said though.

i doubt you'll get pulled over anyway. Most ppl know nothing about JCW. P-platers in 200kW skyline's don't get pulled over. I've seen P-platers in Boxster S's and SS's. Better safe than sorry, though, i guess

Guran · Sep 27th, 2006, 12:32 AM

It's encouraging to see VicRoads take a more sensible approach to classifying "high powered vehicles" wrt bans for young drivers:

Quote: Originally Posted by VicRoads

What’s a high powered car?
A high powered vehicle is any vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne, or with an engine capacity to weight ratio over 3.5 litres per tonne. This includes any make of car.

This is what the RTA should be doing in NSW, but instead they simply restrict all V8s, all turbos, all superchargers, and many V6s. P-platers in NSW can't even drive a Mercedes S350L which puts out a paltry 103kW/t!!! I read in the latest NRMA magazine that RTA say the power/weight ratio calculation is too difficult to implement - funny that doesn't stop VicRoads! Forget about driving a MINI Cooper S in NSW if you're on your P's.

There are no MINIs listed on the VicRoads Restricted Vehicles List (Jan 2005) but they advise that you should contact VicRoads on 131171 if in doubt.

The capacity to weight ratio is obviously not an issue for the MINI, regardless of the model since they all use a 1.6L engine and that is only a problem for cars weighing less than 457kg!

The JCW's 154kW divided by 1.14t (kerb weight) comes to 135kW/t so I'd say that VicRoads would not allow a P-plater to drive a JCW. Rightly so, in my opinion. There's very good reasons why these rules are in place and anyone who ignores them is playing not only with their own life, but with the life of friends, family and other people on the road. Don't try it.

The Cooper S is fine for P-platers ... 125kW divided by 1.14t is 110kW/t which is well under their limit. This car is plenty enough for a P-plater to handle. It is quicker than most 6-cylinder cars on the road today, even some old V8s look pedestrian in comparison. I would have killed for a car this good when I was on my Ps, but had to make do with an old 74 Mini Clubman with an 1100cc engine with no supercharger!

The new MINI Cooper S due out next year should be fine too: 128kW but not sure of the weight - it would need to be less than 1055kg to fail the VicRoads limit.

bugiz · Sep 27th, 2006, 10:18 AM

phew, dun wanna be in NSW with the RTA...
dats why we love our mr. Brackster

anyway... yea, the new MINI are coming out in April as i was told by the guy at the Brighton MINI.. and apparently they've already got orderSS coming in..

robbo mcs · Sep 27th, 2006, 10:26 AM

Hi,

For those that are interested, all the "official" data eg weights comes from the DOTAR's website

DOTAR's mini 2005

Unfortunately, the information provided to DOTAR by BMW is not allways correct, but sometimes a "guesstimate"

StuJones and myself have found out this the hard way, as the minimum weight allowed in our cars for rallies is based upon these figures. The figures for 2002/03 bear no resemblance to reality

Cheers

Robbo

Minkymoo · Oct 3rd, 2006, 10:29 AM

I'm surprised they did bring that in afterall, after all those talk about how motorcycles restrict power to weight ratio for L and P platers, and cars should do the same... think it is a tad bit stupid for cars though... since they already extended the P-plates to 3 years... bikes only do that for 1 1/2 years (provided you pass your tests- 1/2 year L 1 year Ps...).. cars for 3 years (oh + 1/2 year for L plate)?!?

But you're in Vic =p I should get a licence there! hehehe.. they're soo much more lenient. Good luck with insurance!!! (P plater + JCW/MCS + under 25 (I'm assuming you are?) = ka-ching $$$$$!!!!)

Sep 25th, 2006, 09:34 AM	#1
bugiz R56 Nut Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 338 Offline	Mini Cooper S or JCW for "P-PLATES"??? How is it goin guys, this will be my very first post and i'm thinking of getting a MINI for my first car... BUT the question remains... as i'm a p-plater is it legal to drive the MINI Cooper S or the JCW version?? and if not... is there a way of going around it... (oh pls god, tell me u r there, and make it so there is a way) i checked Vicroads, and it is not on the BANNED LIST... but the guy at the dealer said that i CAN'T drive the S or the JCW... but there is a way.. when i buy the car, put it under mum's name and nominate me as the driver... is there such thing?? thanks in advance for helping... cheers guys

Sep 25th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
minigolf Blue is the colour! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canberra, Australia Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 13,858 Offline	VicRoads might be different to the RTA Chris. I thought VicRoads had a more common sense approach than the if it looks fast ban it method from the RTA. but I could be wrong??? MCS or JCW MCS may well be banned simply because they are supercharged? Poor bugger might have to slum it in a lowly Cooper. Sabine Schmitz: Fear disturbs your concentration.

Sep 25th, 2006, 03:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
St00ge 8/10 on the Stoogometer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 04:29 PM Posts: 2,835 Offline	whatever car you do get mate, treat it with respect, as these little things can be very, very fast. As long as you don't go berserk ALL the time, you should be fine . Just realise that you're really lucky to get a MCS They are awesome. Might want to invest in some driver training and track time, as nothing will give you more control. Floody you might have a point there, but i'd rather a sports car in the hands of a safe and capable p-plater than in those of someone with a full license and no idea at all, which i see a lot of Enough of the patronizing safety talk now, enjoy yourself, good luck. Drive safe Elie Black MCS

Sep 26th, 2006, 02:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
St00ge 8/10 on the Stoogometer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 04:29 PM Posts: 2,835 Offline	Vicroads will let you drive a JCW i think (assuming the cops agree with the spec sheet saying that the car weighs 1240 kg). I got my MCS at 18, and the insurance premium was 2850 for the first year. Now, in my second year, with no claims, i payed 2100. The insurance is fully under my name though. Don't put it under your mum or dad's name. Pointless, you pay less now, but more later. One more thing, join clubMINI Vic Black MCS

Sep 26th, 2006, 05:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Smurfn Smurfing Around Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Newcastle, NSW Local Time: 04:29 PM Posts: 42,151 Offline	Exciting Good luck with getting the new car, I would have been happy with any of these for my first car http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheezelsmurf/

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Sep 25th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
eb/w mini vod kaknockers Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Anytown, Aus Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 684 Offline	Man a jcw Mini for a first car. Sorta puts my trusty 82 model auto sigma to shame. As for the bit of driving one on your p plates i think its on the banned list.

Sep 25th, 2006, 10:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
eb/w mini vod kaknockers Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Anytown, Aus Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 684 Offline	It is a bit odd that instead of more driver training the RTA figured if we ban them from driving anything more powerful then a suped up blender people will stop killing themselves on the roads. **** Johnson said it best when he sed " Ban low performance drivers and not high performance cars" or something to that effect. I do hope for bugiz sake that vicroads havnt banned the S. Still id be well chuffed to driving a cooper for a first car.

Sep 25th, 2006, 11:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
MickyD MINI2 Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 3,628 Offline	limit is 125kw/T in Vic. MCS is OK JCW is probably borderline.

Sep 25th, 2006, 11:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
MickyD MINI2 Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 3,628 Offline	oh, might want to get a quote on insurance too.... good luck.....

Sep 25th, 2006, 11:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
doona ......... Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Local Time: 04:29 PM Posts: 2,802 Offline	MMMMM insurance for a p-plater with an MCS....... $pricey$ -Dan

Sep 25th, 2006, 12:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
FL00DY Aus liebe zum automobil Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Narellan, Sydney Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 544 Offline	No offence, but I'm always intrigued why P platers think it's even a good idea to drive sports cars of any kind. Having said that, the dumb idea of banning high powered sports cars means P platers also miss out on some of the safest cars. My advice, buy the Cooper. Not much point in owning a Cooper S with no points or killing a friend.

Sep 26th, 2006, 01:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
bugiz R56 Nut Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 338 Offline	thanks guys for the help... and as for the safe driving bit... no worries, I intend to keep our roads safe.. CONCLUSION: so with VicRoads, I shouldn't have anything to worry about BUT the insurance company might be a pain.. cheers again guys

Sep 26th, 2006, 06:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
MickyD MINI2 Master Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 3,628 Offline	JCW is listed as 155kw's, and 1140kg's kerb weight, which is over the power to weight ratio limit. drive.com.au - New Car Features

Sep 26th, 2006, 01:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
St00ge 8/10 on the Stoogometer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 04:29 PM Posts: 2,835 Offline	but i'd show them the spec sheet, which takes into account 75 kg of human weight and luggage weight, and a 90% full tank of fuel.... true weight is 1.14 tonne as micky said though. i doubt you'll get pulled over anyway. Most ppl know nothing about JCW. P-platers in 200kW skyline's don't get pulled over. I've seen P-platers in Boxster S's and SS's. Better safe than sorry, though, i guess Black MCS

Sep 27th, 2006, 12:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
Guran MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wollongong Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 205 Offline	It's encouraging to see VicRoads take a more sensible approach to classifying "high powered vehicles" wrt bans for young drivers: Quote: Originally Posted by VicRoads What’s a high powered car? A high powered vehicle is any vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 125 kw per tonne, or with an engine capacity to weight ratio over 3.5 litres per tonne. This includes any make of car. This is what the RTA should be doing in NSW, but instead they simply restrict all V8s, all turbos, all superchargers, and many V6s. P-platers in NSW can't even drive a Mercedes S350L which puts out a paltry 103kW/t!!! I read in the latest NRMA magazine that RTA say the power/weight ratio calculation is too difficult to implement - funny that doesn't stop VicRoads! Forget about driving a MINI Cooper S in NSW if you're on your P's. There are no MINIs listed on the VicRoads Restricted Vehicles List (Jan 2005) but they advise that you should contact VicRoads on 131171 if in doubt. The capacity to weight ratio is obviously not an issue for the MINI, regardless of the model since they all use a 1.6L engine and that is only a problem for cars weighing less than 457kg! The JCW's 154kW divided by 1.14t (kerb weight) comes to 135kW/t so I'd say that VicRoads would not allow a P-plater to drive a JCW. Rightly so, in my opinion. There's very good reasons why these rules are in place and anyone who ignores them is playing not only with their own life, but with the life of friends, family and other people on the road. Don't try it. The Cooper S is fine for P-platers ... 125kW divided by 1.14t is 110kW/t which is well under their limit. This car is plenty enough for a P-plater to handle. It is quicker than most 6-cylinder cars on the road today, even some old V8s look pedestrian in comparison. I would have killed for a car this good when I was on my Ps, but had to make do with an old 74 Mini Clubman with an 1100cc engine with no supercharger! The new MINI Cooper S due out next year should be fine too: 128kW but not sure of the weight - it would need to be less than 1055kg to fail the VicRoads limit.

Sep 27th, 2006, 10:18 AM	#16 (permalink)
bugiz R56 Nut Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 338 Offline	phew, dun wanna be in NSW with the RTA... dats why we love our mr. Brackster anyway... yea, the new MINI are coming out in April as i was told by the guy at the Brighton MINI.. and apparently they've already got orderSS coming in..

Sep 27th, 2006, 10:26 AM	#17 (permalink)
robbo mcs Track Addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 2,620 Offline	Hi, For those that are interested, all the "official" data eg weights comes from the DOTAR's website DOTAR's mini 2005 Unfortunately, the information provided to DOTAR by BMW is not allways correct, but sometimes a "guesstimate" StuJones and myself have found out this the hard way, as the minimum weight allowed in our cars for rallies is based upon these figures. The figures for 2002/03 bear no resemblance to reality Cheers Robbo Mods: GO MADDIE and SPARKY!

Oct 3rd, 2006, 10:29 AM	#18 (permalink)
Minkymoo MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2006 Local Time: 05:29 PM Posts: 19 Offline	I'm surprised they did bring that in afterall, after all those talk about how motorcycles restrict power to weight ratio for L and P platers, and cars should do the same... think it is a tad bit stupid for cars though... since they already extended the P-plates to 3 years... bikes only do that for 1 1/2 years (provided you pass your tests- 1/2 year L 1 year Ps...).. cars for 3 years (oh + 1/2 year for L plate)?!? But you're in Vic =p I should get a licence there! hehehe.. they're soo much more lenient. Good luck with insurance!!! (P plater + JCW/MCS + under 25 (I'm assuming you are?) = ka-ching $$$$$!!!!)

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