[im_dave]

Hey everyone,

Been having a great time in Coffs, apart from one thing... my MINI has been struggling to start

Quite literally EVERY morning for the past 2-3 weeks, my car has struggled to start up. One of two things happen:

1. The car stumbles at 500rpm, and then dies
2. The car stumbles at 500rpm, and slowly gets to 1100rpm idle (cold)

Thereafter, the car runs like clockwork. Every subsequent start is smooth, and stumble free.

Initially I put it down to the cool weather and my car being exposed (no garage) at night. But there are a couple of reasons against this - firstly, I've parked my car exposed in Sydney in far cooler conditions with no fuss. Secondly, it's Coffs for Christs' sake!!! (pardon the blasphemy) it's heaps warmer here than in Sydney!

I remember that I filled up with Vortex the day before it started happening. I always use 98 - but usually stick to BP/Shell with no issues at all. I have also used Vortex in Sydney and the car has run fine.

Did a bit of reading on M2 and some of the guys in the States have had similar problems - putting it down to difference in fuel grades and the ECU having to 'adjust'.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/faults-fixes/...n-gas.html

Man, I'm a bit concerned and angry considering I only had my car serviced about a month ago, which is just before I came to Coffs. I've tried pumping the accelerator before ignition with no avail. I've tried turning the key to position 2, and waiting for a while before ignition also with no avail. I'm still running on the Vortex, and waiting (albeit very impatiently - it takes forever as I only do about 10kms a day here) for it to run empty before I never touch the bloody stuff ever again and refuel on BP!

Could anyone hazard a guess as to WTH is going on? Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated - thanks.

[Dave Elliott]

How long have you had your MCS?

I have a 02 MCS that I've owned since December last year that has always had this problem (well, since I've owned it). I have always used Ultimate 98, but I have also tried Shell Premium (no Optimax over here) and recently Caltex Vortex 98. Change of fuels made no difference.

Just to clarify: it needs two attempts to start the car after it's been sitting for a while (enough time for engine to cool to ambient temperature?). During the summer it used be just after sitting overnight, recently it's been getting worse and can occur after 2 hours.

I too have been chasing down threads about the subject and this one;
MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Is your car stalling upon starting the car?
seems to be the best.

Recently I have noticed that just turning the key to IGN and then turning it to OFF and then turning to START seems to work. At least there's no embarrassing stumble and restart.

To be honest, I'm getting used to it.

I did contact my dealer about the problem and they had it overnight to experience the problem themselves (which they did). They say the car had a low fuel pressure fault and they are ordering a new fuel pressure regulator. It hasn't arrived (from Germany) yet.

Dave

[n00b]

Mine's like that too when the temperature dips below 20deg. Tried different fuel but that didn't seem to help either.

Oh well, got too used to it by now and my remedy for it is, just crank it for 1-2 seconds more than it need then it stabilise the idle. 9/10 times this works..hope this helps.

[MickyD]

Quote: Originally Posted by im_dave (original)

I've tried pumping the accelerator before ignition with no avail.

that ain't going to do sh.t all on a car with drive by wire

[Dave Elliott]

Quote: Originally Posted by MickyD (original)

that ain't going to do sh.t all on a car with drive by wire

That's not as stupid as it sounds. At least with a fly by wire accelerator the ECU could be monitoring it. Of course with other cars running fuel injection and mechanical accelerator it would be nonsense.

At this stage I would try anthing to "fix" this problem and I must admit at one stage I did try touching the accelerator whilst trying to start the car in the vague hope that it would activate a "choke" feature.

Hey, if turning the key twice to start the car works...anything is possible

Does anybody know what sensors the ECU uses when starting the car? I'm trying to figure out whether this problem is software or hardware related. Could it be that the ECU is not reading a sensor properly and so not activating the cold-start/choke system correctly?

Dave

[im_dave]

Thanks for the replies.

Dave, I've had my car for almost a year but it's a 10/04 build (facelifted).

The problem started almost suddenly - one day it was there, the next it wasn't.

To clarify the issue - most instances it will start but with stumbling and hesitation. On a few occasions (probably fewer than 5) it has stumbled, and then stalled. It happens usually after I've left the car overnight - If I've left it for a few hours it's generally good to start.

I'll refuel in a couple of days and see if that cures the problem.

[minigolf]

My MINI might do that once or twice a year. From memory it did it a bit more in it's first 12 months (April 04 build/June 04 delivery) to the point that I asked my stealer for the latest software upgrade. They didn't do it, and the problem slowly went away.

If I ever get a dodgy idle now I just give the car a bit of a rev and then it sorts itself out. It's rare that I have any problems kicking it over, even when the car didn't get driven for almost two weeks while we were on holidays just recently, it started up first time no drama.

My unedumacted guess is that it is software related.

[brett]

my girlfriends BMW 318i has the same issue, I think it;s a fuel pump issue, going to ask the dealers to have a look at it

[snoopy]

Hello, up here in good old QLD we get it (I get it) I have followed this right thought and the reason I get given from fuel companies, is to meet emission on cold start the MINI needs a fuel with high volatility.

In QLD due Gov mandated volatility in fuel (summer fuels) the fuel companies have to play a bit of a game looking at the ave temp for the month and the month ahead and change the fuel to suit conditions ( they tell me they do this for each market each month). Sometimes they get it wrong, (i.e. cold snap, when we still have a low volatility fuel)
A lot of cars do this, and the fuel companies do try and get it right, but also they say the car MFG have some role to play, but won’t due to the cold emissions and only having one fuel profile for the global market.

The chemists suggest to get rid/reduce the prob is to bit a lower grade fuel in with the high grade. Or get into mixing in Toluidine in.
Do a search on here and you should find some good background on cold start.

ps it is linked to softwear but by design (well a unwanted feature)
PPS the softwear I think does look at the acc pedal ie i think it is around starting in a cold climate

[im_dave]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave Elliott (original)

Recently I have noticed that just turning the key to IGN and then turning it to OFF and then turning to START seems to work. At least there's no embarrassing stumble and restart.

Yeah I tried that last night and this morning, and seems to have done the trick. Still... it's a bit odd methinks...

[Snapper>///">]

Thanks for making this tread Dave.
i thought I was on track for some sort of overhaul on the motor, as I too have been doing the try and start thing twice each morning recently.

I get my fuel from one servo near home and always 98octane and in the last few weeks have been wondering what it might be that would prevent the car from starting on the first turn of the key. The 500rpm stumble is worrying me. I thought of the fuel, the plugs, the fuel pump and even the injectors. But I'm not very hands on mechanically so i won't be disecting any part of my Mini at this stage.

Maybe we better ask the Oricle .

[Coronary]

Had the same problem here in Sydney with my Cooper S. Always used 98ron. One day I picked up the wrong nozzle and put 95/96 (can't remember what the ordinary premium unleaded is) in and it stopped, so I have been using that again ever since without issue.

[im_dave]

Well, it's been 3 good starts from 3... *touch wood* ever since I twiddled around with the positions in the ignition.

Interesting point about the use of lower grade fuel resolving the problem - it's been noticed by others as well on M2/NAM etc.

The red indicator light has come up for me to refuel, so I'll try BP in the next few days and hope that it makes the difference.

[rellik666]

I had this problem when using Optimax Extreem (V power racing) and went back to standard 98 and it is now all fine, hasn't happened since.

[im_dave]

Filled up on the ultimate over a week ago now with no frills starting up since...!

Glad it wasn't something more sinister...!

[Dave Elliott]

Quote: Originally Posted by im_dave (original)

Filled up on the ultimate over a week ago now with no frills starting up since...!

Glad it wasn't something more sinister...!

What is the temperature in Coffs at this time of year?

Why I ask is that I have noticed my 02 MCS starts first time when the outside temperature is below 10 Celsius. Anything above 10 and I have the starting problem.

I haven't changed fuel types (still Ultimate 98).

Starts OK in the morning when temp is less than 10, BUT 9 hours later (after work) it has the "two goes at starting" problem again (temp about 20).

I'm not sure how the "choke" system works in the MCS, but it looks like it's not set right.

Dave

[im_dave]

In the mornings when I start the car around 7, the temp's probably hovering around the low teens. Not sure exactly what it is (I'll find out), but it's definately not below 10.

So it's happening on ultimate 98?... hmm... might not be the fuel then?

[Dave Elliott]

Quote: Originally Posted by im_dave (original)

In the mornings when I start the car around 7, the temp's probably hovering around the low teens. Not sure exactly what it is (I'll find out), but it's definately not below 10.

So it's happening on ultimate 98?... hmm... might not be the fuel then?

Maybe my (dodgy) "choke" is set at 10, yours may be set higher? My guess is that the morning temps in Coffs have also decreased recently?
BTW, I've been using the outside temperature reading on the OBC....It seems quite accurate.

This is a strange problem and reading all the posts on the subject, it seems that no two MINIs are the same when it comes to the starting problems.

Dave

[im_dave]

Was a chilly 12.5deg C this am when started the car... although I did notice that the ambient temp quickly dropped to 10.5 a few minutes later... no probs. Don't even have to turn it to position 2 before starting.

In the afternoon after the car's been sitting for 8 hours + when it's 15+deg C she's still running good.

Hope you find a solution to the problem soon!

[Guran]

Don't the depots change the fuel recipe at the start of winter? Maybe that's the reason for any sudden changes in starting. Perhaps the winter recipe has changed a bit?

It might be worth trying to disconnect the battery for a minute or so, then reconnect. Apparently this will reset the ECU, and could flush out any "bugs". Worth a shot.

I don't have this problem myself, but then my MINI is always parked in the garage and temperatures don't get very low where I live.