[Nintendo_Fan]

Since DSC has recently been added as stardard equipment to all MINI models in Europe, does anyone know if this will become standard in Australia soon?

[Guran]

In Australia, DSC is standard on the Clubman but presently it's still optional on the Cooper. An appalling decision by MINi Australia, IMHO. DSC is widely recognised as life saving technology that should be standard on all BMW/MINI models.

[minigolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by Guran (original)

In Australia, DSC is standard on the Clubman but presently it's still optional on the Cooper. An appalling decision by MINi Australia, IMHO. DSC is widely recognised as life saving technology that should be standard on all BMW/MINI models.

Hear, hear.

Volkswagen has recently introduced ESP across the Golf range and even Hyundai is running a promotion, albeit limited until 30 June IIRC, that has all their cars included with free ESP.

The DSC on my 2004 Cooper S is great, although, as we all know the traction control component is generally too intrusive and quite cumbersome. My experience in a MINI Clubman Cooper S showed that MINI has vastly improved the traction control on their latest DSC set up. In all aspects the new DSC was a marked improvement over the previous iteration.

To be brutally frank, anyone who doesn't cough up the sub $800 asking price for DSC when speccing a new MINI is kidding themselves. Hopefully it won't be long until MINI saves everyone the bother.

[Guran]

Read in the paper this morning ... the new Mazda2 Neo 3-door with Safety Pack is now available in Australia with 6 airbags, ABS and stability control as a STANDARD MODEL ... for only $16850! Bloody hell that's a great package! And yet DSC is still a $850 optional extra in the R56 Cooper S which costs more than twice as much! GRRRRRR!

[Tit]

well....I think you may all find that esp/dsc etc etc has been legislated as having to be standed on all new cars after a certain date. So don't freak out too much guys (maybe Andrew can expand on this)....that's why I smirk when I see adverts from car companies claiming they are great because they offer esp as standard...when in fact, they are now required to do so by law...

[Guran]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tit (original)

well....I think you may all find that esp/dsc etc etc has been legislated as having to be standed on all new cars after a certain date. So don't freak out too much guys (maybe Andrew can expand on this)....that's why I smirk when I see adverts from car companies claiming they are great because they offer esp as standard...when in fact, they are now required to do so by law...

It's too early to say when ESC will become a legislated requirement in Australia. As of Dec 2007, the proposed new ADR requiring ESC for passenger cars and SUVs is in the preliminary investigation stage only.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...w_Dec_2007.pdf

On the other hand, effective from 1 January 2008, cars must be equipped with ESC in order to be eligible for a five star ANCAP rating. The new MINI Cooper escaped this requirement and was given five stars only because it was tested (by EuroNCAP) in April 2007.

ANCAP :: Vehicle Crash Report
Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Euro NCAP announces major facelift

[AndrewH]

I think the issue with ESP is that, given its relatively rapid development and flow through the model spectrum, it has only been quite recently that standards for testing ESP have been developed - in this case in the US. These standards have only recently been presented to the UN ECE for ratification after which they could be adopted in Australia. You can't mandate something unless you have a test protocol by which you can measure a vehicles performance against a standard and standards take time to develop.

Another issue is that regulation, by its very nature, has a cost and government must weigh this cost against the benefits of the regulation. If there are other cheaper/more effective means of encouraging the adoption of ESP, then they should be investigated. Mandating something requires that manufacturers must develop and certify that they have met the requirements. It also requires that government test, certify and subsequently establish audit mechanism to ensure they continue to meet the standard. This has a cost - and it’s particularly high for those manufacturers that already included ESP in their vehicles. This cost has to be weighed up against the safety benefits.

One thing to keep in mind is that ABS has never been mandated yet almost all cars sold today have it fitted.

Before anyone gets stroppy about the government weighing up costs against lives saved (don’t roll your eyes, it’s happened on this forum before), have a think for a moment about how often you exceed the speed limit. The decision to exceed the speed limit weighs up the risks (costs) against the benefits (what ever they may be). Making a decision based on a consideration of the benefits versus the costs is a rational process

Sorry if I sound preachy

[Tit]

Ah...thanks for the clarification - I think I misinterpreted something I read in relation to ESP etc....

[Guran]

Interesting comments Andrew ... especially considering that ANCAP don't distinguish between good/bad ESC (just as long as it has it), and ANCAP are also primarily concerned about passive safety (crash protection) rather than active safety (crash prevention).

[swamos]

Wheels have been pushing DSC pretty hard of late too. Interestingly they had a experience with a Toyota Kluger that had bad esp (they thought) and it ended up on its roof. Toyota of course denied that it's calibration could be anything less than perfect.

Anyway I paid the $800 for it on our MINI and it was pretty good. If I had a choice of with or without I'd pay it again. For the money MINI are charging I think it should be standard.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos (original)

Wheels have been pushing DSC pretty hard of late too. Interestingly they had a experience with a Toyota Kluger that had bad esp (they thought) and it ended up on its roof. Toyota of course denied that it's calibration could be anything less than perfect.

Anyway I paid the $800 for it on our MINI and it was pretty good. If I had a choice of with or without I'd pay it again. For the money MINI are charging I think it should be standard.

Hi Steve,

Fortunately the DSC in the mini is far better than in the Kluger. I read those articles and it was a little scary

BTW how are you and the family Charlize must be growing up and getting a bit of a handful now

Cheers Robbo

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs (original)

Hi Steve,

Fortunately the DSC in the mini is far better than in the Kluger. I read those articles and it was a little scary

BTW how are you and the family Charlize must be growing up and getting a bit of a handful now

Cheers Robbo

Hi Robbo!

Yep I thought the DSC was great on my MINI. I can't understand why so many manufacturers have so much trouble with calibration.

Anyway Charlize is growing and becoming a little girl. She goes to school next year. I loved that snow trip. When Matthew is a bit bigger... maybe next year or the year after we will go back .

[mgb_au]

Hi,

With the JCW getting DSC in August do you think this will start across the range around a similar time for Australian vehicles? ie, before the 2009 model's come out.

I'm looking around at the moment, and trying to weigh up getting an early 2007 cooper S, current dealer stock cooper, or a custom build cooper.

It seems everywhere else they are building all cars with DSC standard. I find it odd that we have been getting a special model without it!

cheers,

mgb

[Guran]

Quote: Originally Posted by mgb_au (original)

Hi,

With the JCW getting DSC in August do you think this will start across the range around a similar time for Australian vehicles? ie, before the 2009 model's come out.

I'm looking around at the moment, and trying to weigh up getting an early 2007 cooper S, current dealer stock cooper, or a custom build cooper.

It seems everywhere else they are building all cars with DSC standard. I find it odd that we have been getting a special model without it!

cheers,

mgb

With my cynics hat firmly in place, I'd say the only reason the JCW will have DSC standard is that since it's a new model, it would require standard fitment of DSC (ie ESC) in order to qualify for a five star ANCAP rating. Same thing with the Clubman. The regular R56 has already qualified for five star ANCAP because it was tested well before the ESC requirement came into effect. So I'd suggest that you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for DSC to become standard on the regular R56.

As for your choice of 2007 model or new ... if it were me, I'd be going with a 2008 car specced to my personal preference. The MINI retains it's value so well that you'd not be saving yourself all that much by taking an early 2007 model. And this way you get exactly what you want rather than having to go with what's available. The downside is a few months wait for the car to be built and shipped across.

[minigolf]

I also think the DSC is an important piece in the no-mechanical-LSD feature of the MINI John Cooper Works models.