[johnfromaus]

Hey Australia.

I'm in Melbourne and bought a 2002 cooper about 6 months ago. I stopped driving the car after a concerning noise started from the engine bay. It kept getting worse so I decided to take the car to BMW for diagnosis. They confirmed my suspicions that it was the gearbox and suggested I replace it at a cost of $4000. I left.
I took the box out and pulled it apart with a rebuild manual I got from the UK. I ordered new bearings, seals, spacers, etc from the US and have received one shipment, waiting on the other. 5 out of 6 bearings are now replaced and the shafts are reassembled. Hoping to get the box back in the car within a week or two.
Has anybody else had any experiences with gearbox failure with these models? I have been told its a common fault. Has everybody gone through BMW for a new unit, or have some attempted the rebuild? Interested to hear some stories.

Regards,
John

[dsakko]

Yep. You'll never stop them unless you get the upgrade kit from Mini Mania.

Problem is that it is rumored the box is based on a Peugeot box, but Midland Gears (who supplied them) used substandard quality materials. The gearboxes never last unless you upgrade the necessary bits to the better quality parts.

There are 3 known failures (listed in most common to least common):
1. Second gear baulk ring wears out too quickly. Starts with cruncing into second gear and ends with it kicking it out of 2nd gear. Caused by weak synchros and the baulk ring teeth being too soft.

2. Diff slips. There is a ring gear around the crown wheel of the diff, so if it's slightly out of tollerance the ring gear will slip on the crown wheel and you'll lose drive. The Getrag boxes have the same design, but I've only been able to find one instance worldwide where a Getrag has done this.

3. The bearings let go. You were lucky in that they just made noises. Most push a shaft out the side of the gearbox. Since they are no longer making these anymore (now replaced by a Getrag 5sp) BMW requires a core changeover.

When mine spat a shaft (and dumped a big pile of oil in the apex of a corner - thanks to the local MFS for cleaning it up) I approached the dealership twice, and BMW Aus directly (there are no direct phone numbers so I put an enquiry through the send me a brochure link) they REFUSED to sell me a new gearbox because mine was too badly damaged to be used as a core changeover.

$10k later I now have a honking 6sp close ratio late model low km gearbox. Thanks go to the Adelaide Mini community for getting me a few of the more important bits (gearbox, clutch) and to my dealer for letting me order parts they ordinarily wouldn't let you order (they prefer to only sell you the parts for your car, not parts for a totally different model)>

[johnfromaus]

I noticed that second gear was way more worn that the rest. Since I didn't previously have any problems with shifting into, or slipping out of any gears (and the ~$300 cost of replacing the shift gear and collar) I decided against replacement.
I also noticed the questionable design for the fixture of the diff gear to the crown. A testament to the apparent lack of regard for strength.
I noticed the noise and pretty much put the car out of service immediately. Im glad I did after reading the blogs about how quickly the noise turned into a hole in the box.
I envy your 6 speeder and sympathise with your experiences with BMW.
No love for us little guys.

[MickyD]

was the car purchased from a dealer? It should have a warranty if it was...

[johnfromaus]

i purchased it privately a few months ago. bmw told me they would do 50% of the cost of the gearbox, and I still had to pay labour. Warranty expired 3yrs ago, 2002 car.
Have you had problems?
John

[dsakko]

That's more generous than my dealer. As the original owner I also get 2 yrs warranty on all genuine parts. My 2nd to last 5spd gearbox broke after 2 years and 2 months. I was up for 100% of the cost of EVERYTHING.

Maybe BMW is starting to show some compassion towards the pre-June 04 Mini Cooper owners???

[johnfromaus]

my car has only done 50k and is spotless, I kicked up a bit of a fuss when they told me it needed a new box. The tech was a little bit timid, which I used to my advantage, and they made 2 calls to mini australia. The result still wasn't good enough for me so I went home and started dismantling.
I am actually starting to have doubts that the problem is infact the box itself. I originally suspected this, and it was confirmed by bmw, but I now equally suspect the inner cv joints or the carrier bearing for the right-side shaft. Is this also a problem area? Or am I just getting paranoid? Could [shock!] BMW be incorrect in their diagnosis? We will find out in about 2 weeks when my parts arrive.
John

[dsakko]

Good luck!

I had problems with the early outer CVs (the internals were on the brittle side), but the replacement ones were rock solid until I pulled them out earlier this year (still look brand new and absolutely no slack or noise).

[johnfromaus]

i recently got in touch with the original owner of my car after finding a picture of it on the net. I emailed him and he said he competeted in a couple hillclimbs with it. possibly a contributing factor to the demise of the transmission, although tickling my suspicions about the CV also. he also told me it was the 2nd mini ever sold in victoria, which was interesting to learn.

[dsakko]

In that case if they're the original shafts they'd be pretty well shot, I'd imagine. Mine was the 5th into SA BTW.

Funny thing is that I've found that 2nd gear always goes first, and I compete in mainly motorkhanas (all 1st gear). It's a tough one to judge since I've never broken a gearbox in competition, and it's never damaged 1st gear, and there are little old ladies that are blowing gearboxes. I wouldn't like to say if it's a contributing factor or not, as there is a much higher load on the gearbox when you race it, so therefore you'd expect it to wear / break much quicker, yet others who baby them have trouble.

Hmmmm.....

I can't think of much else to check since it's been raced. Maybe check the shocks for leaks, general condition of pads and discs, check the master cylinder for leaks (the tollerances in the master cylinder are awful, and heavy braking can cause the seals on the piston to fail), make sure there's no air in the brake lines, and maybe a good wheel alignment.

Any other problems you'll see coming, but in general these are a tough little car, and there shouldn't be any residual concerns about the hillclimbs (cross fingers and knock on wood).

[johnfromaus]

thanks dsakko,
they are original ( i assume) driveshafts. hmmm.
i have checked everything you say, all looks fine. i checked everything quite thoroughly when i bought it and most things looked good.
shocks are actually cooper s ones, so were uprated for competition.
doing maintenance while everything s out. new acc belt, air filter and plugs. should run nicely when it all goes back together. im excited

[johnfromaus]

Just to let everyone here in australia know, i have ordered all my internal gearbox parts through a US company called "Pelican Parts" Pelican Parts - Porsche Parts & BMW Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW. My experience with them has been amazing and if there are any light to medium weight parts you need, which are either too expensive here, or unavailable, give them a go. I got all the gearbox bearings thru them at a cost of about $200 shipped. These aren't even available in aus thru BMW. Highly, highly recommended.

[johnfromaus]

Its done. spent all day today putting it al back together. it wasn't the driveshafts. problem is solved! woo hoo. back in business. cost a total of $500. however, was off the road for a total of 8 weeks. theres an upside and dowside to everything, no?
i am 1 happy minier

[dsakko]

Great to hear! You got away very cheaply.

I honestly hope for your sake she holds together. I've been through hell, and hope your experience is a helluva lot better!

[dsakko]

.

[johnfromaus]

THATS the clip! mine is well and truly bus - ted. it was so brittle when i took it off that every single spline snapped off haha.
can i have yours?

[dsakko]

Just to fill you in on the final diagnosis:

- coolant disappearing only when being driven. Whilst it's stationary it doesn't leak a drop.
- no trace of moisture in the oil. No steam out the exhaust. No wet hoses.

Cause:
Faulty water pump leaking out of the pulley seal. Also associated with a slight squeak.

[jksgoh]

just thought id add in, my mini had done about 70,000 kms and it started making a noise, diagnosed as a screwed up gear box. they said they didnt know what it was that was wrong as it was a closed unit?? i duno... that much about gear boxes myself so took there word for it... bmw ended up paying half the parts cost, still had to pay labour...
quite disappointing that mini, and bmw, would use such a poor quality component.. and furthermore not take responsibility for it.

[dsakko]

I hear you. Once word of these gearbox problems reached the Aus market the 2002 - Jun04 Mini Cooper manuals dropped in price by $4k - $6k.

Trust me, when you drive one with the 6 spd, it's just a world apart.

[DEye]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnfromaus (original)

Hey Australia.

I took the box out and pulled it apart with a rebuild manual I got from the UK. I ordered new bearings, seals, spacers, etc from the US and have received one shipment, waiting on the other. 5 out of 6 bearings are now replaced and the shafts are reassembled. Hoping to get the box back in the car within a week or two.
Regards,
John

G'DAy Mate,

I'm no where near as ambitious as yoou are to try a rebuild myself .
But i'm wondering where you got your parts.

I put a Rod through the block and will be getting the engine replaced ( out of waranty 6 years / 117,000, Km )

I've had no problems with the gearbox, but while it's al apart i might as well do all the work now .

Thanks,