[disdis]

I am considering some better brake pads for my car in ready for my first track day.

i m just wondering if any of u hv upgraded the pads and hv gone for a service. and if there are any problems with that??

since my car is only 2 months old, i still hv 2 yrs of waranty which i intend to keep.

btw, i m with BM melb.

pls help!

[swamos]

I have EBC on my car, and they've been fine now that they are bedded in. I did this so that the wheels are not covered by brake dust after a 10k trip to the shops.

As for warranty, what is it really going to effect? There isn't really anything down in that area that is convered by warranty that changing pads is going to effect. To wipe you, they have to PROVE that what you did caused the problem. For instance, if your tailgate won't close, they can't blame it on the pads (maybe unless they worked so well that someone ran into the back of you)

The only thing that might fail down there are leaky cylinders (long bow to prove pads), and maybe disc damage, but then this isn't really covered by warranty anyway. Disc damage is cause by misuse. Excessive wear will be hard to get to happen in the warranty period anyway.

The only possible problem I can see is if they rattle. Cjay had this problem, and they covered the pads in "Disc quiet" (GOO), and this stopped it under warranty. But you can do this yourself, and you won't manage to get the goo on the carpet

The other issue is that if the new pads wreck something, then you can always hit the new pads manufacturer up, under their warrenty.

If you are going to track the thing, then it's possible that they can wipe the warrenty for the entire car anyway, so pads will be your smallest problem.

What does everyone else think

[dsakko]

The other side is that there is probably no need to change pads. There is a photo on this site (can't remember where, sorry!) of a MCS getting flogged around a race track, discs glowing with factory pads, and no brake fade.

Spoke to guys who race their Minis locally and there is no problem with the pads. No one has had to touch them yet to handle track work. You do have to be careful when cooling them down. Come off the track with your brakes too hot and they'll crack. (from experience, they won't cover that under warranty. On the plus side they didn't seem too concerned that I was "using" the car a little heavily!)

Having said that I reckon it would be worth it to reduce the excessive brake dust the BMW pads produce, and they munch through discs reasonably quickly too, so anything to reduce wear would be an advantage as well.

[IML337]

If you're tracking your car, a pad change voiding your warranty is the least of your worries

Having said that, pads and rotors usually aren't covered by warranty anyway, unless they are OBVIOUSLY defective parts...

And less brake dust has got to be a bonus, so it's probably worth doing!

[disdis]

thx all!

i probably will go for the EBC pads purely for the reduced dust.

my car now has brake dust ALL over the front doors on the side and also the wheel arches.

anway, whats the best way to cool down the brakes???

is doing a "cool down" lap with minimal braking enough??

and do I need to cool the brakes as soon as i feel a bit of fade???

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

Firstly, I agree that you do not really need to change pads for the track, especially if you are a beginner.

The stock pads are fine for "super-sprint" type events where you do 5-6 laps in one go. Under these circumstances, the pads hold up fine.

If you are doing a private track session or something similar where you may do a solid 20-30 minutes in a row then you may run into heat problems.

Beginners should be fine anyway, you wont be pushing the car overly hard.

One word of warning, stock pads can wear very quickly on the track, so check them before every trackday. Also remember the last 30% of the pad can wear extremely quickly, especially on the track (in a matter of laps).

I am upgrading my brakes, and feel it will offer some advantage on the track, ie better and more consistent brake pedal feel, less fade, better wear. My car is booked in next week. I decided against the big brake kits (too expensive not really needed). I am getting braided lines and carbon metallic Galfer track pads.

As far as warranty, by changing the pads it only affects the warranty on brake components. If you are really worried get you BMW dealer to fit the pads for you. At least then they cant accuse some other mechanic of stuffing something up when they changed your pads.

Robbo

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

One other quick thing. After years and years of cleaning wheels here are my tips

* When washing the wheels use one of the car cleaning detergents with wax (eg turtle waz or similar). This builds up a smooth surface on the rims, making them easier to clean
* NEVER use one of those spray on cleaners, they are corrosive. NEVER use an abrasive brush. These just roughen the surface up (even if you can't see it) and give something for the dust to stick to and become ingrained.
* Clean the wheels regularily, if you leave it too long it is much harder to get off.
* Try not to drive on a freshly asphalted road
* If you want a quick clean (ie your wheels are dusty but you dont want to wash the car) use one of those "swiffer" static cleaning cloths. A quick wipe in 30 seconds and the wheels will look almost as good as new

Lastly, if you like clean wheels, do not use metallic track pads. They create a huge amount of dust. The dust is also corrosive to the wheels and paint on the car to some degree

Robbo

[nonsequitur]

Please take a careful look at your 2002/2003 Service And Warranty Information booklet.

It is written in two parts: Warranty (Page 30) and Service (Page 2).

Page 30, New Passenger Car Limited Warranty, excludes replacement of "Items which are subject to wear and tear or deterioration due to driving habits or conditions, such brake pads/linings, brake discs, clutch disc, pressure plate, filters, upholstery, trim and chrome items, paint finish, drive belts, glass, and similar items, are specifically limited to defects in material or workmanship."

### So brake pads are not covered under "Warranty".

Page 2, MINI Maintenance Programs - 2002 Models

"MINI Cooper and MINI Cooper S ... are covered by Full Maintenance for 36 months or 36,000 miles, ... Should you request more frequent maintenance service, the cost of these services will not be covered by the Maintenance Program."

"Full Maintenance covers all factory recommended maintenance, as determined by the service interval indicator. Additional items that need replacement due to normal wear and tear, and that are not covered by the original MINI New Passenger Car Limited Warranty [Page 30 above] - such as brake pads, brake rotors, and wiper blades - ARE INCLUDED [my emphasis] provided wear and tear exceeds MINI specifications."

### So, brake pads are covered under Fulll Maintenance!

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

With regard to Johnewalds post

Unfortunately here in Australia we do not have a full maintenance program. We have warranty for defective parts, but have to pay for service and replacement of parts by normal wear and tear.

Robbo

[Boo]

I agree with Robbo re getting pads for the track.
The stock pads are pretty good to start with. Although now after 5 pretty serious track days my pads are shot.. They still have heaps left on them and are fine for the road but they have been pretty fried and the guys at peak checked them and said they have turned pretty crumbly (??)...
Monday i am getting cross drilled disks on the front and AP track pads all round.. They advised that the Big Brake Kits would be overkill unless i am looking at doing full racing and even then would only be of use in long races(200km + ) ..

[cityclinic]

Hi Boo,
I can see you are getting 'sworks' ready for the eventual JCW implant by adding a bit of extra stopping power. Are you still sold on JCW? My feeling is JCW should include at least a brake upgrade in the kit.

[Boo]

Unfortunately it doesn't
But it does get a new balanced and precision machined engine head and that is what swayed me in the end.
Oh well, it will still be worth it i feel as i still get warranty on the car for the next 2.5 years..

[clallo]

Quote:

Originally posted by dsakko
The other side is that there is probably no need to change pads. There is a photo on this site (can't remember where, sorry!) of a MCS getting flogged around a race track, discs glowing with factory pads, and no brake fade.

Hey Gang,

This is really frustrating for me. I've heard so many people on this boad say that the braking of the MCS is track proven and can handle stressful driving...like track days. Hell, I've even heard Mike Cooper say it during the live webcast about the JCW conversion!

The problem is that my MCS develops appreciable fade after only one or two fairly heavy stops from lets say around 80mph. Not panic stops mind you...no ABS...just strong, honest braking. My car has 10,000 mile on it so the pads aren't 'green'. When this fade occurs you can smell that immediately recognizable 'hot brake smell'.

I used to regurlarly take my cars to Summit Point raceway for track events but I haven't taken my MCS yet because of this. Judging by what I've experienced on the street, the brakes wouldn't last one lap let alone 5!

Can anyone help me here? Does anyone else have the same problem? Were there pad changes during production? I receeved my MCS the end of last July so it was built about a month before then.

Any help please?

Christian

[dsakko]

I have definitely had problems. Have spent over $1500 searching for a fix, and not too much cooperation out of BMW Aus, either. The local dealer here is under alot of pressure not to replace anything unless it's clear that the part is faulty.

First thing is:
- does the pedal fall to the floor, or do you still have a good pedal, despite that there is alot of fade
- is there any fluid leaking from around the master cylinder
- do you notice any craking of the discs or pads (this will appear as dark lines going radially out across the disc

[clallo]

Quote:

Originally posted by dsakko
First thing is:
- does the pedal fall to the floor, or do you still have a good pedal, despite that there is alot of fade
- is there any fluid leaking from around the master cylinder
- do you notice any craking of the discs or pads (this will appear as dark lines going radially out across the disc

No...still a firm pedal...just lots of fade.

No leaking fluid.

No cracking of the discs, but I haven't checked the pads.

How about you?

Christian

[dsakko]

Pedal sunk to the floor, fluid everywhere around the master cylinder, discs & pads only crack if you don't cool them down properly.

I've gone as far as replacing pads, discs, fluid, master cylinder, and upgraded to DBA slotted / cross drilled discs and Castrol SRF fluid. All of this has had absolutely 0% effect on my problem.

Yours sounds like you're still getting good pressure to the pads, could be just a bad set of pads or discs. Get your dealer to check it out, because it's not normal, especially since the Cooper S has higher temp rated pads than the Cooper.

Good Luck!

[Boo]

I haven't experienced any problems on the track in braking with the stock set up.. as i said though, after 5 track days the pads were cooked..
I would say that you have some problem with your braking system.. I can stay out on the track for at least 15 - 20 mins before i notice the brakes starting to get too hot and stopping power degrading , hence the now upgraded pads and disks..
Hope you find what the problem is guys...

PS my new setup really bites hard with instant effect

[clallo]

Quote:

[i hence the now upgraded pads and disks..
Hope you find what the problem is guys...

PS my new setup really bites hard with instant effect [/b]

Tell us more about your upgraded setup Boo.

Thanks,
Christian

[Boo]

Pretty good value i thought...
Cross drilled and ventilated disks on the front (the same diameter as stock) with AP track pads on..
Cost approx $600 from Peak

[TRELO]

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
Pretty good value i thought...
Cross drilled and ventilated disks on the front (the same diameter as stock) with AP track pads on..
Cost approx $600 from Peak

Peak done a good deal for $600 . My setup cost me $4000 , i supose you saw how big the brakes where...