[disdis]

and it was bloody fantastic!

i think i would never hv appreciated my mini quite this much before going onto the track.
It was part of a Stage-3 performance driving course, but its basically a full day of lapping.

the way my MCS is chuck thru corners to corners reminds me of go-karting. my car was totally stock, engine and brakes. but still kicked a Falcon's butt!

Several big problems though....

1) Brakes- i knew this would happen, but i ignored advice and went with just the stock brakes cos i thought they were just 2 months old..... but my brakes were cooked after 4-5 sprint laps. 1-2 cool down laps was needed b4 the brakes regained grip. In total, i did about 20-30 sprint laps (plus cool down laps in btween) and the brakes survived. Considering Sandown's rep of being hard on brakes, i think my stock brakes did (just) get thru, but certainly some better pads+oils for my next trackday.

2) Tyres- the Pirelli runflats are... in a word..... PATHETIC. they may be adequate on the road, but on the track, it was like driving in the wets. Thru corners, the tyres were squealing like anything (with ASC-T working overtime every single corner), and the front end was loosing grip a lot earlier than i expected ( i was on 50 psi). After 20 odd laps, the fronts were literally "cooked" . blistering on the sides (as expected) were found and there were slivers of "melted" rubber hanging onto the inside treads??? my friend had Michelin Pilot Sports had his tyres looked pretty good afterwards. I dont think mine could last another full track day..... its a big problem since my MCS is 99% road use.

anyway, niggles aside, it was v enjoyable. and hands down to the mini engineers for creating one of the most entertaining chassis around.

finally, how did i go?? well, no formal race was done, but we did do 2 timed laps- amongst other free-Sprint laps. Cars i beat were:
Original Mini (full race mod)
Mx5 (std)
Falcon
Old Corona (race mod)
Clio Sport (lightened)--- my main rival.
Skyline GTS (moded)
Nissan 200Sx (Std)- to my surprise....

others that kicked me incl M3 . Elise , GTR, 911RS, modded Type-R, 200SX, Sti, Lotus Esprit V8.

Oh, btw, my best of two timed laps was:
1 min 39 s. (Stock MCS on 17"- 20 degrees, dry)

not too bad for a first timer it think. well, at least i beat the Clio Sp!

pics to follow soon- check bk in several days!

[eltel]

Thanks for sharing that with us, disdis. Looking forward to some pics.

Well done, too, I'm sure with better tyres and brakes you list of 'kills' would have been even bigger.

[bkwalker]

sounds mad! i would love to get on the track some day, it sounds like you give your car a hell of a workout though...

can i just ask if you were able to get insurance on the track?
i was chatting to my dad about it and he said he couldn't get any when he took his boxster for a run... i find it hard to believe...

cheers

[IML337]

well done - beating a Clio Sport is a good thing!

Your car is usually uninsured on a track...

[disdis]

thats right, no insurance on track.
some ppl pulled off their license plate on track, but i didnt bother....

I hv noticed my front wheels now are a bit out of alignment..... the car seems to be heading to the right side when the s/wheel is seemingly centred... also, the wheels seemed to hv a bit of toe-out.

I m planning to hv my wheels aligned tomorrow.

do u think Beaurepairs will be ok?
i didnt want to go back to the BM dealer since they r $$$.

[bkwalker]

yeah im sure beaurepairs will be fine.. they are pretty trust worthy, and they wont do anything different to what BMW would do.. besides charge less! haha

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

Congratulations!

Its addictive isn't it? The mini is soooo much fun on the track.

A few points,

Obviously you are going hard! I can do 5-6 laps of Eastern Creek (faster and longer than Sandown) and not have the brakes go too soft. What was the problem? pedal going soft and to the floor or just lacking braking power? Did it come back with pumping the brake pedal?

Yes the runflats are hopeless. However 50 psi is way, way, way too high. I hope that was hot! I start around 30 cold, then after a session on the track they heat up to 37-39 and I then bleed them down to 35-36 while they are still hot. I suspect part of the traction problem would be your tyre pressure. You would be skating around pretty much at those kind of pressures.

The fact that you blistered the outside, while the insides picked up "marbles" (the strips of rubber you describe) means you dont have enough negative camber for the track (as expected). Every mini I have seen on the track has this problem. Dont worry, this will scrub down pretty well after a week of road driving.

The reason your steering has gone off may be alignment, but it also may be wheel balancing (you have worn heaps off the outside of the tyre, but little of the inside, changing the balance of the wheel).

I would recommend you rotate your tyres rear to front, as I am sure your front tyres have taken more of a hammering than the rears. After all the fronts do the acceleration, braking and cornering, while the rears in the mini are pretty much just along for the ride. Ask the wheel alignment people to do this for you. Also make sure they balance them.

By the way, that is a pretty good hit list of cars you beat. Glad you took the clio down! Can't complain about the cars you didnt beat.

I bet you still have a smile on your face. Hopefully you are allready planning your next track day!

For anyone seriously considering doing track days regularily the number one upgrade they should aim for is a dedicated set of track rims and track tyres.

Cheers

Robbo

[erichui]

hehe, track day are always fun
please share us some pics if u do have them thanks.
i think i need to enrol for some driving school sooner or later.
what driving school do u guys recommend???
and some driving course like BMW Driver training provide car for u to use, is that better than using ur own car?
(well maybe buecase then you won't have to go through ur own set of tires and brake pads on ur car at least)

[swamos]

Quote:

Originally posted by disdis
I hv noticed my front wheels now are a bit out of alignment..... the car seems to be heading to the right side when the s/wheel is seemingly centred... also, the wheels seemed to hv a bit of toe-out.

I m planning to hv my wheels aligned tomorrow.

do u think Beaurepairs will be ok?
i didnt want to go back to the BM dealer since they r $$$.

When I was in Melbourne I used Tyre Torque at Croydon. they seemed to know what they were doing, and they were cheap .

[disdis]

hey Robbo, u r right about the smile on my face!

re: the tyres.
the instructor told everyone on the day to pump it up to 50 psi (cold!!). i just did what he told us to do....
anyway, i hv bled them down to 40 psi for road-use afterwards.

should i go for lower still??? (for road)

re: the brakes.
the pedal was soft (nearly to the floor) + braking power was diminishing after 4-5 hot laps. I ran off (onto grass) several times at the end of the front straights cos of the brakes...

i think its a combo of boiling fluids and hot pads... but i will probably get some EBC pads+ re-bleed fluids for track next time.

as for the tyres, i will go to Beaurepairs for wheel balance and alignment plus to rotate the tyres.

i think the run-flats will probably last one more track day, after that, will change to some better rubbers. this guy had some S-03 and they looked pretty good.

[disdis]

Eric:

as for driving school, i m not sure what's avail in sydney, but go to a reputable one.

they do it in Stages. Stage one / two is the basic stuff, eg. emerg braking, steering, shifting etc. (boring stuff)
then u get into some skid controls, oversteer vs understeer.

The one i did was Stage 3 (or the last Stage)- which was some skid-control followed by a full day's tracking.
(Bare in mind that some driving schools hv different "stages"/categories, some only hv 2 stages in total)

Usually u hv to do stage 1 b4 u can move up the stages. But I managed to skip Stages 1+2 and went straight to stage 3.
dont ask me how, my friend organised it... a bit sneeky, but the first 2 stages are a rip off...

If u r an ok driver with some experience, Stage 1+2 r a waste of time.

as with the BM drivers training. its a bit $$$ to do all the stages, and i dont think u can go full-on tracking with their cars rite?? and u wil be kicking urself if they give u a 320i sedan for the track

anyway, its good to drive ur car since u r learning to drive at yours and the car's limit, and its no point to be an expert in driving someone else's car rite?!

[MrMow]

Quote:

Originally posted by disdis
thats right, no insurance on track.
some ppl pulled off their license plate on track, but i didnt bother....

I hv noticed my front wheels now are a bit out of alignment..... the car seems to be heading to the right side when the s/wheel is seemingly centred... also, the wheels seemed to hv a bit of toe-out.

I m planning to hv my wheels aligned tomorrow.

do u think Beaurepairs will be ok?
i didnt want to go back to the BM dealer since they r $$$.

Don't go to Beaus... I don't like to pimp a business due to the no advertising and all, but in Richmond there is a place called Ascari Automotive (Cremorne st?), the guys there deal only in tyres, specifically performance tyres and do a lot of Ferraris, Porches etc.

I don't like mention them 'cause its a friend who runs it, I went to visit the other night and he was aligning a 911, I was well impressed with the amount of effort he was putting into getting it exact.

They also do runflats.
If you want more info I can give it..

[disdis]

thx Mow

i m going to Beaurepairs since there's one next to my house and they r cheap.

how much is ur guy charging for wheel alignment + swapping fronts and rears??

[MrMow]

Well, it seems to depend on how much needs to be done I think. Minis don't have much you can adjust, so its probably not too bad.

Honestly I don't know what he charges, I know hes not the cheapest around, but judging by the cars I see every time I go in (550 Maranellos, Lambos, 308s, 911s etc) he does a very good job.

They have a web site, I'm just a little bit wary about posting here 'cause I don't wan to be seen to be advertising someones business, its just I know the guy, I know his work and I know he is a perfectionist and very very professional.

[Goul]

Well done disdis

Was the falcon an XR6 or an XR8, also was the Type R the old shape(dc2) or the new shape (dc5)....reason being is because ive owned both of those cars.

Cheers

[disdis]

Goul:

the Falcon was only an XT heheh.... but i was faster by nearly 10 sec.... but it was killing me on the long straights though...

the type-R was DC2 shape

just got of a quote from Beaurepairs for alignment, swapping tyres and 4 wheel balance.

Its around $85.

worth going ahead??

the first thing he said when he saw my fronts was
"woh, what did u do to those tyres?!"

[disdis]

Goul:

the Falcon was only an XT heheh.... but i was faster by nearly 10 sec.... but it was killing me on the long straights though...

the type-R was DC2 shape- not much in it on the twisties, but damn fast on the straights, sounds awesome as well!!!!

just got of a quote from Beaurepairs for alignment, swapping tyres and 4 wheel balance.

Its around $85.

worth going ahead??

the first thing he said when he saw my fronts was
"woh, what did u do to those tyres?!"

[jaydub]

Quote:

Originally posted by disdis
Eric:

as with the BM drivers training. its a bit $$$ to do all the stages, and i dont think u can go full-on tracking with their cars rite?? and u wil be kicking urself if they give u a 320i sedan for the track

anyway, its good to drive ur car since u r learning to drive at yours and the car's limit, and its no point to be an expert in driving someone else's car rite?!

Hi Eric and disdis,

I just went to the BMW Advanced 2 course last Friday. All I can say is that I've never had so much fun in my life in a car! Don't do the Advanced 1 course...that is a basic car control course in 325i. The Advanced 2 course is a performance driving course, with a lot of time on the track in both the 325i and the M3, which is obviously great fun. Don't worry, most of it is in the M3, they only start you off in the 325s and we do braking in them since they have been fitted with a switch to turn off ABS. I don't know what you exactly mean by "full on tracking" but being in an M3 and going around Eastern Creek going at 210km/h qualifies in my book

As for the cost...even though the Advanced 2 course is $995, you must remember that they are letting you run wild in an M3 for most of the day! I think it was money totally well spent...I learnt so much from the day. We also did a lot of skidpan training too.

I've actually had a bit of a discussion with robbo mcs and MrMow about the courses in the thread: Ice Warning on Mt Buller so go to that for a more in depth discussion.

I do agree that it is best to learn in your own car...since the Mini is a lot different to a 252kW RWD M3! But what I do recommend is do the course, then take your Mini on the track with your new knowledge.

If you have any more questions about the course, gimme a buzz...

Justin

[disdis]

thx jaydub! It does sound very tempting. but 1k is a bit stiff.....

i can hire an E36 rental for a weekend for less....

or I can spend it on a set of tyres, new pads and 100 bucks for a full afternoon of tracking in my S.

mmm..... choices... choices....

[MrMow]

Actually, I don't think you can do the level 2 course or the level 3 M3 course now without doing the level 1 course (you can do 3 after 1 though).