[Dutchy]

Hi all,
Tonight I had an interesting encounter with the local Darwin revenue raisers, as they pulled me over on one of the local roads. They informed me that I had been speeding. Interestingly, they said that they were unable to get an exact speed that I was travelling at, and asked if I would dob myself in and say what speed I was doing. I told them that I wasn’t looking at my speedo at the time that I was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd gear, so i couldn’t help them.
Angry at not being able to book me for speeding, they then decided to look over my car to see what they could get me for. One officer informed me that it was illegal to drive with “Front Fog lights on” (Driving lights to me) and that if they ever saw me driving with them on in town again, they would book me. They let me off with a warning, this time!!
I did some research when I got home and found the Australian Road Rules, which I have attached the only section I can find on such use of lights (sort of).
My question(s) is/are: Are they correct in this interpretation and also has anyone else come across this same problem with the police?
I am eager to find out. Any comments welcome (yes, I shouldn’t have been speeding.)

Dutchy.

[TimboK]

Dutchy,

In Victoria there is definitely no prohibition on driving with front fog lights, although rear foglights are prohibited in any conditions other than fog or those which are classed as hazardous.

Probably the only thing they could do you for here is under r.219 which says that lights may not be used to 'dazzle' other drivers - although this is pretty subjective at the best of times!

You raise another interesting point though, something that really irks me, and that is why do you feel the need to use your fog lights in normal driving conditions?

Although the Mini's don't have large driving lights, I really get the irits when HSV's, WRX's and normal Commodores (this short list is probably the worst offenders on a number/level of dazzling scale) feel the need to drive around with four lights blazing... ESPECIALLY in the middle of the day! It proves an unnecessary and at times slightly dangerous distraction to other road users.

I would like to hear feedback on this issue from others, as it was given some coverage in The Age a while back, although I have never heard a good explanation as to why it is necessary!

Cheers - Tim

[AussieMini]

About three years ago in Brisbane my father-in-law was fined $70 for having his foglights on (in and non foggy situation) while driving his Daewoo Lanos.

Personally I think he should have been booked for his bad taste in motor vehicles.

I am not sure if the law (in Queensland) has changed or been reinterpreted since however.

[snoopy]

Yep In Qld it is still as AussieMini stated, but they don't seem to pull you up unless they want to talk to you about something else (speeding) or they just don't like you (want to get you for something).

[Dutchy]

Tim,
you raise a good point, and I have forgotten that I've become one of those typical Commodore/Falcon, WRX type of drivers. Around Darwin, there are large number of these said drivers, with their driving lights blazing - the new commodores I have noticed are closer to being Spot Lights.
I just found the whole thing hypocritical by the police, that once they had finished dealing with me, pulled out into traffic and sped down the road (no lights flashing), right in front of a couple of cars with "Fog Lights" blazing.....
Since we operate under a National Road Rule act now, maybe MINI should start to warn people about the illegality of using "Fog Lights" in metropolitan areas.
Dutchy

[Tigger]

Despite the purpose of turning them on in the first place (I know it does irritate many..), if ever disputed, is the law against "fog" lights, or "driving" lights?? Most dealers and specs would not classify these as "fog" lights...

[Dutchy]

Reading the road rules, it doesn't distinguish between Fog Lights or Driving lights. It just states any lights which "Dazzle" other drivers. Going to the absolute extreme, this could also include the Xenon lights I have. I notice that when travelling behind a car in the right hand lane, the lights spread across the road and to the left. I have seen some drivers adjust their rear vision mirror to accommodate for the bright lights - is this dazzling them?
I'll try to remember from now on not to drive with the "Driving Lights" turned on.
As for "Fog Lights", I thought the best colour for these were yellow-ish White light just reflects too much and makes it even more difficult to drive through fog.

Dutchy.

[Tigger]

haha... totally agree... I'll keep my headlights off at night from now on... some people may have sensitive eyes...

[CanberraCooperS]

I was booked 4 years ago for this same thing. I had a WRX then and the cops decided that they didnt like a young guy driving a flash car so they pulled me over and could only ping me on the Lights. Yes the road rules state in NSW and ACT that there has to be either Fog or Rain. But I believe there is a clause that states that if there is no street lights you are allowed to use the low pointing Fog lamps. So i think its debateable till the cows come home.

[TimboK]

Dutchy, The police personify hypocracy! Numerous times I have witnessed police driving whilst talking on a mobile, and even saw one female officer sms'ing whilst she was driving along the freeway at 100!

I have seen the cops with foglights on too, so take a second look at the next VY SS you see coming up behind you doing 120 on the freeway with foggies on - its probably a cop!

The cops were probably just annoyed that they couldn't get you for speeding and decided to be difficult about it!

On another note, my old Cooper S used to have the old school Lucas rally lights on the front (four light setup). These were awesome for driving through the mountains at night. Does BMW make a similar set for the new cars? I assume they probably don't because I seem to remember reading somewhere that you are only allowed up to 5 lights on the front of your car...

[kuper]

Hello TimboK,

BMW doesn't make the quad rally lights for the new Mini, only the double one... and it's not even connected to fog lights, but more of high beam.

[21Blue]

I think the police have a quota they gotta reach per week or something or else they get fired?....Stupid assumption..!?!? ...But it could be true...

[jasemini]

In response to Timboks irk regarding drivers running fog lamps all the time. I run my fogs or driving lights on my Cooper S at night as I find it gives me that little bit extra as far as spread goes. You get more low peripheral light from the fogs. Much the same as the turning lamps do on a Fairlane or Maxima. I can see how some people may find it a bit ****y, the rice boys and Commodore crew do my cause no favours, with their cheap yellow driving lights bolted under the bumper. But hey horses for courses. If the law decides to book me for it then so be it.

Further to the rally lights, some people have suggested that the factory spots are more for show than any real purpose, they apparently have a very short range and defuse quite quickly rather than punch a beam of light further down the road as they should. Not to mention the huge cost for the factory ones too. There is a couple of posts somewhere on here from guys who've done the aftermarket spots with their own fabricated mounts, they look much better, both functionally and financially.

[Harry Morant]

I very much doubt that the MINI driving lights could dazzle anything - they're not that bright. I'm sure that it wouldn't stand up in court if you challenged it - next thing you know Volvo's will be banned due to them having theirs on all the time................aha! - finally the real reason becomes apparent

[Oz McMINI]

According to the NRMA...

Daylight savers
NRMA research has found that more than half of all collisions in daylight are partly due to drivers not seeing each other in time to avoid an accident. NRMA therefore believes dedicated Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) are the way of the future. For all the facts see the July/August issue of The Open Road.

I was also stopped at an RBT, (my wife was driving as I was "slightly" over the limit ) and the kind Police Officer requested that we turn off our "driving lights". Nice of him to ask and not give us anything to go with it...

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by Oz McMINI

According to the NRMA...

Daylight savers
NRMA research has found that more than half of all collisions in daylight are partly due to drivers not seeing each other in time to avoid an accident. NRMA therefore believes dedicated Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) are the way of the future. For all the facts see the July/August issue of The Open Road.

I was also stopped at an RBT, (my wife was driving as I was "slightly" over the limit ) and the kind Police Officer requested that we turn off our "driving lights". Nice of him to ask and not give us anything to go with it...

Damn your car looks great with the foggies on too

[IML337]

I had owned my S for no less than *FOUR HOURS* when I was booked for illegal fog light use in Bathurst (I drove straight there from the showroom basically). The fine was about $70. It was night time.

Being the race weekend, the police take a very hard nosed zero tolerance attitude out there. I wasn't actually driving at the time, a friend of my father was having a turn in the drivers seat, and I hadn't turned the car off since driving through fog and rain when coming across the mountains...

While I was literally yelling at the police officer about the fact that I had driven through conditions that required the lights to be on, and the car only had 300km on the odometer and had not ben turned off since it left the showroom, he pulled over a late model SS Commodore ute coming toward us and booked him for foglight use also. At least I wasn't being singled out...

Nevertheless, it's annoying. And nobody seems to know the rules...

[Dutchy]

Quote: Originally Posted by IML337

While I was literally yelling at the police officer about the fact that I had driven through conditions that required the lights to be on, and the car only had 300km on the odometer and had not ben turned off since it left the showroom, he pulled over a late model SS Commodore ute coming toward us and booked him for foglight use also. At least I wasn't being singled out...

Nevertheless, it's annoying. And nobody seems to know the rules...

As far as I can see, reading the Australian Road Rules, the only thing that may be illegal is that they may "Dazzle" other road users. Can anyone else find specific mention of not using front Fog Lights when not in adverse conditions (rear fogs are mentioned)?
The word Dazzle can be subjective, as not all driving/fog lights blind oncoming traffic.
As I was driving around Darwin last night, I counted no less than 22 car/4WD's with driving/fog lights on and only a handful were too bright.
Dutchy

[jasemini]

"Dazzle other road users" I saw a lime green Toyota Soarer last night that dazzled me and then made me violently ill. At the next set of lights I saw a pretty young girl driving an Astra Convertible, very dazzling indeed

Fog Lamp laws perplex me, why should it be illegal to make your car more visible? (except in the case of the riced Soarer) spot lights, I understand, but below the bumper fog lamps can only improve your visibilty and make your car more visible.

[Dutchy]

Lime Green Soarer If anything should be illegal around here, it's got to be cars painted Lime Green.
A question - about fog lamps - if the police are against them being used at night because of them "Dazzling" other drivers, why can't they be used during the day to increase visibility of the car? (****** factor being ignored for this one ).

Dutchy