[tm75tm]

Anyone you guys up here can recommend either on the GC or in Brisbane. After last weekend I am in search of better handling to try and compensate for my bad driving on the track.


-t.

[brett]

Quote: Originally Posted by tm75tm

Anyone you guys up here can recommend either on the GC or in Brisbane. After last weekend I am in search of better handling to try and compensate for my bad driving on the track.


-t.

Yeah can I use this excuse as well for my dismal perfromance

[m1n130]

Howdy Guys, I think that eveyone drove very well, exceptionally well as a matter of fact. We all took our pride and joys onto a racetrack, got to drive them the way we can only dream about on a day to day basis, and we brought them all home again in one piece .... well less a little rubber anyway Cheer up, there is always next month and with much luck, we won't get stuck with a whole bunch of other vehicle classes again for the first practice. I don't think I would or could wish to be on the same track at the same time with a better behaved and responsible bunch of individuals and I hope to do it again

[m1n130]

Quote: Originally Posted by tm75tm

Anyone you guys up here can recommend either on the GC or in Brisbane. After last weekend I am in search of better handling to try and compensate for my bad driving on the track.

If you absolutely positively have to do something, then I would take a closer look at tyres more so than the already sweet suspension. Besides, you then don't kill of the run flats quite as quick. I think swamos would probably have more to say on this topic

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by tm75tm

Anyone you guys up here can recommend either on the GC or in Brisbane. After last weekend I am in search of better handling to try and compensate for my bad driving on the track.


-t.

Hmmm,

There is always a danger with this type of event that people will make it overly competitive. Everyone who drove their car from the track, and leant something on the day was a winner. The only loosers are those who think it's competitive.

I'll tell you now, when I go out there I'll be driving fairly close to how I drive on the road, so I don't kill tyres, mechanicals, or anything else If that puts me at the front, or right at the back, then so be it.

The clubMINI committee has talked about arranging a track day with proper driver instruction in the near future. I think spending a little bit of money attending this makes a lot more sense then throwing money at suspension. You will also be a safer driver on the road.

The MINI is an exceptionally well handling car right out of the box, so unless you're chasing that ultimate lap time, it's a waste of money. You are effectively paying for your car's suspension twice !! Let me know when you do the upgrades, and I'll hang around the bin out the back, and keep the parts for when my suspension wears out in 10 years time

Having said that, if you really want to throw money at the problem, then it can be done. I suggest you do a search in the Aussie forum for "peak" (as in peak performance) who have done a number of upgrades in Sydney. Also have a look in the performance and tuning forum, it's full of that stuff. I would not take my car anywhere else other than Fulcrum suspension at Morooka for this type of work.

So, in summary, if you really think beating other fellow mini owners is your thing, then you could probably spend 10k on a works kit, then another 10k on suspension on wheels and tyres.

Unfortunately, after doing all this there is a very distinct possibility that someone who can really steer might turn up in a stock MINI and whip you

I might be the wrong person to talk to, as I have a baby coming in 2 months, and just spent my works kit on rennovation yesterday, so I seem to have a different value on cash at the moment

Just remember, everyone who drives away from a track day with nothing damaged, and having learnt something is a winner.

[tm75tm]

Guys , thanks for the responses.

Firstly I realise that the day was a fun thing and that is what it is all about .... I was not out there hell bent on damaging my car or anyone else's.

What I did find was that the car struggled (with me driving) to manage to get the power down mid corner and beyond. MAybe it is my tires , maybe it is my driving....... I realise that smoothness and consistency is the key to good lap times , but I guess I am loooking for suggestions on who at least I can talk to regarding suspension.

Next time I go to the track I am already happy that I will learn ALOT more agin about my mini that 25,000kms on the road does not tell me.

Anyway , thanks again for the input.

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

I tend to agree with Swamos. The suspension on the car is pretty good out of the box. I would recommend doing a few track days and driver training days with the standard suspension to get to know what the car can or cant do. Then you will be in a better position to know what you want to achieve by changing the suspension. If you are a newbie to the track you will get much better value for your money by doing a few proper drive days with instructors etc than you will get from modifying the car.

Having said that I have done a lot of suspension work on my car, and it makes a huge difference on the track. However, there is also the possibility that if it is not done properly it can actually make things worse.

What you do to the suspension will depend on what you are aims are? Do you want to improve track performance at the cost of road performance? Do you want to improve the "look" of the car etc.

Big improvements can be made pretty easily. The best starting point is a bigger stiffer rear bar with stiffer and slightly lowered springs front and rear. You can do that for less than $1G.

To go the full monty you can have coilovers, which allows you to change springs easily depending on conditions, preference, track etc. Also if you are doing serious track work you definitely need to have adjustable camber front and rear. To do all of this you are looking at around $2G+ depending on the quality of products you use.

These mods will make the car sit flatter and feel more stable through corners. You will be able to hold more corner speed. However, you still will have difficulty gettting on the gas out of corners. Unfortunately that is a characteristic of the car due to its FWD and diff set-up. Track tyres help to some degree, but do not cure the problem.

My suspension was done in Sydney at Peak Performance, using a mix of components from whiteline suspension and RPM. I dont know anyone up north. However, you need to find someone who has worked on the mini before and knows the car.

In summary my advice would be to go out and enjoy the car as it is, do a few more track days (preferably with good instructors). If you are still enjoying it and progressing after 4 or so days, then you seriously need to start thinking about tyres and/or suspension.

Robbo

[Darryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs

These mods will make the car sit flatter and feel more stable through corners. You will be able to hold more corner speed. However, you still will have difficulty gettting on the gas out of corners. Unfortunately that is a characteristic of the car due to its FWD and diff set-up. Track tyres help to some degree, but do not cure the problem.

I notice Quaife now have a ATB LSD to help with this. Not that I'm trying to tempt you or anything

[tm75tm]

So we are now getting somewhere.

I have over the last eight years done in excess of 20 track days in various cars - all rear drivers (Mod'd XR8 , M3 , M5) and have found the cocnsistency to enable me to better my times each time out. I have done a season of Kart racing and setup which I admit was the most rewarding. At the two sets of seven laps last week I was finding it difficult to find the "right way" to get the best out of the MCS . My first set of seven were erratic yet my second set saw each lap quicker than the first (possibly due to being pushed along by a sweet JCW S).

I am the first to agree that the tyres need to be addressed , but what then . I am happy to say I do not want the car to 'look faster' , just enable me to drive it a bit harder and see the results. Every way I prodded it , the result seemed to be the same - understeer through the corner with minimal traction on exit.

I appreciate the input from all you guys and will hopefully put some of it into practice.

[dsakko]

And if you really need to throw your money away, remember you can always get the Spax coilovers as a JCW option, supplied and fitted by your local Mini Garage.

It's a good kit, and you'll notice a dramatic improvement on the track. You'll just get jiggled around alot on every day drives. Handles bumps far better than the sports+ suspension. You'll find that you can ride the kerbs with ease too.

[warped]

Excuse my ignorance but what the heck are the Spax coilover option from JCW?

I have never heard of this before being offered anywhere let alone here in Australia ... JCW have indicated that they are working on brake and suspension mods (Nurburgring 24 entry was a test bed run for these kits) but these probably will not be available until early next year ... what was your source on this Spax kit?

[dsakko]

Sorry about that. It's the suspension upgrade kit (see link):
http://cairns.mistral.co.uk/cgi-bin/...ade_jcw520.htm

It's made by Spax specifically for JCW Garages. It comes as 4 struts, 4 springs. You'll need to use the strut tops from your current suspension. Full ride height adjustable. Single rate adjustment with 10 settings. Spax also sell these direct, but they are yellow and have 28 settings on the rate adjustment (it's just a finer adjustment over the same range), but BMW won't cover these as they are sold outside the BMW network.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

I notice Quaife now have a ATB LSD to help with this. Not that I'm trying to tempt you or anything

Thanks Darryl,

I am well away of the Quaife option

However, at this stage, I am happy to stay with the standard system.

Robbo

[Boo]

I have Whiteline springs, swaybars and rear camber adjusters on and the car rocks.... No understeer except when you spin your wheels out of the corner (as Robbo said)...
You just get nice controlled 4 wheel drifting when you break taction.. It is considerably more stable unber heavy breaking which yu will agree is a plus on the track.
If better handling on the track is what you want and don't mind paying for it, i thoroughly recommend the suspension mods (make sure you get some semi-slicks though )
www.whiteline.com.au
They can send the parts to your favourite suspension people.... my dealings with them have been great. They have been using my Cooper S as an R & D car testing lateral G force and corner speed with each new mod..

[Darryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by tm75tm

So we are now getting somewhere.

I am the first to agree that the tyres need to be addressed , but what then . I am happy to say I do not want the car to 'look faster' , just enable me to drive it a bit harder and see the results. Every way I prodded it , the result seemed to be the same - understeer through the corner with minimal traction on exit.

I appreciate the input from all you guys and will hopefully put some of it into practice.

Well, reading through the posts my money would be on

1. R spec tyres on lightweight rims - cheapest performance upgrade you can buy.

2. Upgraded brake pads

3. Probably suspension - you need to get it stable through the braking area, should allow slightly more corner speed and not bounce around as much

4. LSD: read all the posts, everyones spinning wheels coming out of corners, its a very slow way around a race track.I think if you fitted this and all of the above you'd be lapping faster than the upgraded power cars without any chassis work.

4. Power upgrade: By this time you'll be a red hot confident racer (we can dream) and can actually use the extra power as you'll have a chassis begging for more oomph.

Just my thoughts, but above all guys be a little careful and do a professional driving course.

[Boo]

Anyone know how much th quaiffe LSD is Robbo, has Peak given you a price fitted by any chance??

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boo

Anyone know how much th quaiffe LSD is Robbo, has Peak given you a price fitted by any chance??

Hi Boo,

Hope you and Melodie are having a fantastic time in the big apple. However, we have some nice places over here as well, like Eastern Ck, Oran Park and Phillip Island I am sure you are getting a bit itchy and twitchy for some mini track time. However, given the choice I would gladly swap places with you!

Peak gave me quote on the Quaiffe diff of around $2.5k + installation. However, the installation is a huge job, requiring the whole front end of the car to be pulled apart.

Also, the decision is not clear cut. There are obvious advantages to the diff. However, there are also possible disadvantages. I have spoken to several people, including instructors from BDD who have driven FWD racecars. There are also several downsides. Potentially it can make the car harder to handle, and more prone to spins, especially if you get front wheel lift. With the standard set up the car is virtually fool proof. To put the car into a wall you would have to really be doing something very stupid.

What I want is someone else to fit it, and then I can try their car.

Robbo

PS : will send you a PM also

[Darryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs

Also, the decision is not clear cut. There are obvious advantages to the diff. However, there are also possible disadvantages. I have spoken to several people, including instructors from BDD who have driven FWD racecars. There are also several downsides. Potentially it can make the car harder to handle, and more prone to spins, especially if you get front wheel lift. With the standard set up the car is virtually fool proof. To put the car into a wall you would have to really be doing something very stupid.

What I want is someone else to fit it, and then I can try their car.

Agree in part with the people you've chatted to with regard to the car becoming far more sensitive to input with a LSD, although it will still only do what your right foot is telling it to, the ATB Quaife is fairly gentle in take off and not at all like the more common plate type lsd's that especially in 2 way configeration can be rather extreme in their operation. It's not going to induce spins but will get much more twitchy if you come right off the power mid corner with the "oh sh#t too fast" manouver (this when the spin thing can arise) and you may have to alter the I've apexed, now foot to the floor driving style.

BUT, this is all subjective, and frankly if your happy losing 10th's trying to control wheelspin and your having a good time why spend the cash. We're not out there racing for sheep stations (even though it feels like it at the time), but if we're looking to go fast - no doubt about it get the lsd before doing power upgrades.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

Agree in part with the people you've chatted to with regard to the car becoming far more sensitive to input with a LSD, although it will still only do what your right foot is telling it to, the ATB Quaife is fairly gentle in take off and not at all like the more common plate type lsd's that especially in 2 way configeration can be rather extreme in their operation. It's not going to induce spins but will get much more twitchy if you come right off the power mid corner with the "oh sh#t too fast" manouver (this when the spin thing can arise) and you may have to alter the I've apexed, now foot to the floor driving style.

BUT, this is all subjective, and frankly if your happy losing 10th's trying to control wheelspin and your having a good time why spend the cash. We're not out there racing for sheep stations (even though it feels like it at the time), but if we're looking to go fast - no doubt about it get the lsd before doing power upgrades.

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for the input.

Now that you jog my memory the words "plate" and "2way" ring a bell. When one of the drivers was talking to me I believe it may have been one of these LSD's he was referring to, rather than the Quaiffe. His words were something to the effect of " brake, see the apex and the exit, hit the apex and then get the front wheels pointed at the exit, get on the gas and everything will be fine, UNLESS you have to change the steering input on the exit, in which case it WILL get very ugly" . He didn't seem very complimentary about this setup.

I tend to agree with you regarding chasing tenths of a second. I am enjoying myself, and dont feel the need to spend more money. However, it still hurts when I think about the time Boo beat me by 4/1000ths of a second at Wakefield!

Robbo

[tm75tm]

Guys - I am getting quite abit out of this so keep the banter going. I have spent the last few days at the various tyre/wheel resellers and am now more than confused as to which tyre to head for (in a semi slick variant) and am even considering a 15" package for those track or twisty mountain days? Thoughts?