[s4matt]

Im off to Eastern Creek tomorrow for the Dutton Rally
Curiosity Question???
Whats everyones best time in a standard or modified mini
Having done only 5 laps in my standard mini I was down to a 2.03
I wonder what the Lancia integrale will do???????????
I doubt I will beat that as I am still learning to drive it quickly
Its an unpredictable BEAST, not like a mini
Matthew freeburn

[TRELO]

My best time in my mini was 1.57.08 ( hard to get traction out of corners due to wheelspin ) ,
Oh, but in my Porsche 996 turbo I managed 1.49.32 on street tires.

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

My best time in the mini stock at Eastern Creek is 2.01.9.

I was out there on the weekend with the BMW club with all the mods. Trelo was also there. They still haven't emailed out the final times, but from memory my best on the weekend was 1.57.3.

The minis beat some very good cars on the weekend, and ruffled a few feathers! Once the club emails out the list I'll repost some of the times, along with some of the cars we beat!

By the way, have you seen the last edition of motorsport news? You get a mention in regards to the East Coast Rally.

Robbo

[Boo]

Hey Robbo,
Did you get close to Cam and Jason??

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boo

Hey Robbo,
Did you get close to Cam and Jason??

Hi,

The club results are now out.

I'll try and post the summary as an attachment. However, if anyone is interested all the results are available in detail at www.bmwclubnsw.asn.au (go to the news section).

Boo, Jason had an absolute blinder, and beat me by a long way! He is now seriously quick. I beat Cam however, to come second in our class. I had fun trying to keep ahead of Trelo!

Other points of note were that no standard M cars beat me, only modified M's being faster. All of the cars faster than me were either race cars, heavily modified street cars or porsches

Notable kills were E46M3 driven by Roy (who is normally much faster than me), several XR8's who are going in the dutton rally, and a fully race prepared commodore with roll cage, slicks etc

Robbo

[Darryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by TRELO

Oh, but in my Porsche 996 turbo I managed 149.32 on street tires.

1.49.18 - Road registered PRB clubman, street tyres - completely standard 88kw Corolla twin cam engine (sorry couldn't resist)

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

1.49.18 - Road registered PRB clubman, street tyres - completely standard 88kw Corolla twin cam engine (sorry couldn't resist)

Hi Darryl,

I bet the clubman felt a lot faster too!

I have driven some clubmans, and they are awesome. Nothing like being close to the ground, in the open air, and able to see your front wheels!

Next week at Eastern Creek I am getting the opportunity to drive the Caterham Blackbird. This is has a 1100cc honda motorbike engine with a sequential gearbox.

Last month I went as a passenger in the car for some hot laps at Oran Park, which blew my mind. The car was very, very fast. I cant wait to get in it and drive it myself!

Robbo

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs

Hi Darryl,

I bet the clubman felt a lot faster too!

I have driven some clubmans, and they are awesome. Nothing like being close to the ground, in the open air, and able to see your front wheels!

Next week at Eastern Creek I am getting the opportunity to drive the Caterham Blackbird. This is has a 1100cc honda motorbike engine with a sequential gearbox.

Last month I went as a passenger in the car for some hot laps at Oran Park, which blew my mind. The car was very, very fast. I cant wait to get in it and drive it myself!

Robbo

Is that a car for sale through the importer in Aus??

I wasn't aware that they were selling that here??

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos

Is that a car for sale through the importer in Aus??

I wasn't aware that they were selling that here??

Swamos,

Yes the cars are for sale! In fact I am thinking of buying one! However, they are not road registered, and for track use only.

The deal is being put together by Vjay Angelo and his company Sterling Motorsport, and Luke O'Neill who organises the drive days Boo and I go to at Eastern Creek.

Vjay originally comes from the UK, but I believe he has been here for a while now. He and his team (Sterling Motorsport) run a BMW Mcoupe, which came 5th outright last year in the Bathurst 24 hour race.

I am not sure of his association with Caterham, but I presume he has some association from his time in the UK.

He has a Caterham Blackbird, which I presume he imported from the UK. He is trying to set up Caterham racing program in Australia, and is marketing the cars, along with a racing series due to start 2005. Also, they are offering support of the cars in terms of transport, pit crews, service etc.

If you check out the www.caterham.co.uk site and follow links to motorsport, international, Australia it links to the Sterling motorsport site so it would seem it is supported by Caterham.

The price they are asking for the car is very competitive.

However, at this stage they are still developing the concept.

I will know more after I drive the car next week.

Robbo

[Darryl]

VJ Angelo of Sterling Motorsport is trying to get a one make series going for the Blackbirds, he's sorting out the details now. At present their not road registerable.

You'll enjoy the drive Robbo (you got that cheque book handy?), a mate of mine has his Hyabusa powered PRB registered now, its manic, fastest car I've ever been in. On the dyno at a club Lotus meeting the other night it was pulling 138hp at the rear wheels at 10500 rpm and still climbing, we envisage 0-100km/h times of mid 3's and it should lap Eastern Creek in the low 1.40's on slicks.

Trouble with all this lap time business is unless all the cars are at the track in the same conditions its very hard to compare, Wakefields a bugger for that, its either nearly snowing or the tracks melting in the heat.

[Darryl]

oh dear, did we type that at exactly the same moment Robbo

[swamos]

Interesting news, guys. Make sure you let me know how much they are going to be.

I wonder who the other guy that is taking Caterhams around all the shows claiming he is the importer is??

[Darryl]

Swamos, Yes the people you mention are still the Caterham importers in Australia according to Caterhams UK web site. I've had numerous discussions with them with the veiw of possibly purchasing a R300. Frankly, selling the things out here without some lifting of the brand is a very hard call.

The local cars (PRB especially) have lots of chassis development and are the clubbies to beat on the track. I'd love to see some cats running around but mention Caterham to the vast bulk of the people in Australia and they have no idea what your talking about, case in point the Caterham JPE thats currently being raffled ($150 a ticket - 800 tickets) whilst being a very rare car in Caterhams history its also a very hard car to sell in this country.

Not sure whether VJ is going to just look after the motorsport side and where its all going but whatevers happening its got to be good for the clubman movement out here.

[Boo]

What ballpark figure are they asking Robbo?? Sounds like fun..

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

Swamos, Yes the people you mention are still the Caterham importers in Australia according to Caterhams UK web site. I've had numerous discussions with them with the veiw of possibly purchasing a R300. Frankly, selling the things out here without some lifting of the brand is a very hard call.

The local cars (PRB especially) have lots of chassis development and are the clubbies to beat on the track. I'd love to see some cats running around but mention Caterham to the vast bulk of the people in Australia and they have no idea what your talking about, case in point the Caterham JPE thats currently being raffled ($150 a ticket - 800 tickets) whilst being a very rare car in Caterhams history its also a very hard car to sell in this country.

Not sure whether VJ is going to just look after the motorsport side and where its all going but whatevers happening its got to be good for the clubman movement out here.

I'll be very interest to see how you guys go with these. I have done quite a bit of Caterham driving myself. In case you haven't guessed, I'm a bit of a Lotus fan. While I agree that the local copies are very good on the track, the real caterhams have a magic suppleness that makes them a joy on public roads. Their suspension tune reminds me a lot of my Elan. The real lotus sevens from the 60's are much closer in tune to the copies, very hard and harsh. It seems to me that Caterham have not wasted the 30 years of suspension development.

Having said that, as usually happens with English car importers is that they seem to get greedy, or maybe the costs are significant or something. Anyway, they seem to land here at absorbadent prices. The standard caterham that they are selling here is the roadsport 115 SV (wide body) which is 19k pounds in the UK, which is about $46k Aus. They are selling that car here for $70 if I remember. That's an increase of about half again.

Now the R300 in England is 22.4K pounds which is 54.5k Aus. If we follow the mystery factor applied above, that would make the R300 about $80k+ in Aus, which was about the figure I last heard bandied about.

I'll be very interested to see what this other importer wants to sell them for. I would think you're going to be paying a lot more than if you buy a PRB monoque $40 and a honda black bird $25 and put them together yourself. Mind you, that's presuming you can get Mr Bladwell to deliver. One of the guys up here had a firm order for the car for 2.5 years and gave up in the end. I'm not sure whether they are vapourware or not....

BTW, I also did the sums on the R500, and I came up with $120 Aus

Are you going to buy a ticket in the raffle. I'm still entertaining it for xmas

[TRELO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

1.49.18 - Road registered PRB clubman, street tyres - completely standard 88kw Corolla twin cam engine (sorry couldn't resist)

I think you would take it more easy not to smash when the Porsche cost me $290k , compared to the clubman which probably cost $70k. Thats why I like to take the MINI to track days so I can drive it a little harder and not worry if I smash & destroy it as I can get another for $46k.

[Darryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos

While I agree that the local copies are very good on the track, the real caterhams have a magic suppleness that makes them a joy on public roads. Their suspension tune reminds me a lot of my Elan. The real lotus sevens from the 60's are much closer in tune to the copies, very hard and harsh. It seems to me that Caterham have not wasted the 30 years of suspension development.

hmmm.... completely disagree Swamos (sorry mate). To Caterhams credit they have done lots of development with their own 6 speed gbox and numerous add ons that just look superb. This is in my mind where the local manufacturers fall behind. But in chassis development, bugger all, and with the adjustability built into these things you can have them riding as supple as you would want (but would you prefer an MX5 then?) we've a mate who's a Caterham nut and moving back to Aus. and bringing his heavily modded SV back with him. Took him to the PRB factory the other week and he reckons that you can really see how Petes cars are so much better built/finished than the current Caterhams, go figure??

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos

The standard caterham that they are selling here is the roadsport 115 SV (wide body) which is 19k pounds in the UK, which is about $46k Aus. They are selling that car here for $70 if I remember. That's an increase of about half again.

You'll find a standard kit is now $53k but its a bone standard thing, no adjustable shock platforms even, needs like $6k of options to get to reasonable and then you've still only got 115hp.

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos

I'll be very interested to see what this other importer wants to sell them for. I would think you're going to be paying a lot more than if you buy a PRB monoque $40 and a honda black bird $25 and put them together yourself. Mind you, that's presuming you can get Mr Bladwell to deliver. One of the guys up here had a firm order for the car for 2.5 years and gave up in the end. I'm not sure whether they are vapourware or not....

Sterling Motorsport is selling them as a package for $60k theres a downloadable .pdf on their web site. If he can get rego for them even I might be interested in one but I don't see the point though if its not, and unless he can get the race series up and going you'd in some ways be better off importing a Radical. I'm hoping he pulls it off though.

Petes car s vapourware lol, its a very small operation Swamos and its always full on at the factory. You can get a Birkin now nearly off the shelf and their really nicely finished. Daves busa is based on one of these and its very nice. Still a wait for a composite car though, think you'd be starting around mid 50k for one. Still resale of PRB's is gorgeous, Dave with the Busa car sold his for the same amount he bought it for 2 years previous and sold it through word of mouth no advertising..... you've gotta be happy with that.

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by Darryl

hmmm.... completely disagree Swamos (sorry mate). To Caterhams credit they have done lots of development with their own 6 speed gbox and numerous add ons that just look superb. This is in my mind where the local manufacturers fall behind. But in chassis development, bugger all, and with the adjustability built into these things you can have them riding as supple as you would want (but would you prefer an MX5 then?) we've a mate who's a Caterham nut and moving back to Aus. and bringing his heavily modded SV back with him. Took him to the PRB factory the other week and he reckons that you can really see how Petes cars are so much better built/finished than the current Caterhams, go figure??

I'm afraid to disagree, but it sounds like I definately do. While I have absolutely no doubt that the locals can go just as fast or faster on track than the caterham, i agree with you in that it's all in the adjustability, so it's all a bit moot, like you say. Set them up as you will. Mind you, there aren't too many secrets now anyway?? Lotus designed the seven in 1957, and it was in turn heavily based on the 6, which was 1952. So if the people copying the seven haven't worked it out by now then it doesn't say too much for them.

My point was that out of the box the Caterham is set up beautifully to ride and handle on the road. My belief is that to get a copy to do as well as a Caterham is entirely possible, but would take a heap of work, which is what I like about them. It's track compromise is also a good start. All good Lotus prove that a car doesn't have to be set up rock hard to handle well. Most clubmans are set up to sterilise the driver for at least 6 months, which is totally uneccessary for a road car. Most of them are aimed at the track now.



Have you driven a seven on the road for a long period of time?? What Lotus have you driven??



PS, I'm sorry if I'm feisty but I've been painting all day

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boo

What ballpark figure are they asking Robbo?? Sounds like fun..

Hi,
As Darryl stated before they are selling them as a package for $60K, NOT road registerable.
This price is ready to race, with all safety features, spares wheels and tyres etc.

VJay is trying to set up a caterham race series. He is doing it as endurance races (ie 4 hour races). The idea being that 3-4 people can get together, and run one car, reducing the costs.

The price of the car seems very good, for a powerful motorbike engine with sequential gearbox. This car is significantly faster than the standard PRB's which sell new for low to mid $40's.

However, I doubt that this series will ever get off the ground. To make it viable he needs to attract 20 buyers, all of whom are serious about racing. As you need a minimum of 2-3 drivers per car for endurance races that means 60 serious people.

However, the car is worth considering as a track car regardless of whether the series is a goer. However, he assures me he has allready taken several deposits

Robbo

[Darryl]

Hey you want to lay off the painting Swamos, those fumes will do terrible stuff to you (says he who's half way through a repaint, drat another weekend ruined)....

I've done far too many road k's in bloody 7's (normally 450k's to Wakefield and back) - must be a closet BDSM freak or something, driven Elises, mates got an Elan (I think Tim may have taken you for a ride at the last lotus bash in QLD) , we both agree that the cars can be set up to do whatevers expected of them - thats the point, they are racers with number plates meaning total adjustability, I'd still prefer to drive Trelos Porsche than the 7 as a daily driver but for bang for bucks you can't beat the things, as he commented he's punting around $300k's of car and its a bit of a worry if you bend the thing, anyway....

I've been in the SV the local importers hooking around, and it rides and handles no better than a local base model car, I've driven and set up enough 7's to know that. Its also bloody slow compared to the local cars for the dollars you have to spend. Have you chatted to many Caterham owners? I have and even in the UK they are a little peeved that Caterham haven't progressed in chassis development, Caterham owners I've chatted to in the UK are very interested in PRB's composite car for example as a logical progression with inboard front suspension, independant rear end, full honeycomb tub etc.. Caterham are only now doing testing of an inboard front suspension car. Lets face it these cars whilst looking like a series 3 are so far removed its ridiculous, and no-one is copying an old Lotus anymore

Owners get hold of these things and turn them into what they want the car to be, my car was a very comfy thing on the road when I first purchased it, but like a track setup Mini they get more extreme the faster you want to go, I'd suggest the cars you've been in have had some track time and the owners have fiddled or wanted them in certain specs from build.

FWIW PRB have a turbo composite car coming up for the Indy rally putting out like 320hp, in testing at Wakefield it was doing 220km/h at the kink on the main straight - thats scary to get to that speed that fast.

(maybe we should take this arguement over to www.ozclubbies.com)