MINI2

AndrewH · Feb 10th, 2004, 10:39 PM

Is the OBD II socket in the Mini's sold in Australia compatible with what is sold in the US and Europe? Are all the output codes the same and to the OBD II standard that is used in the US and Europe?

I know that at one stage some car manufacturers were bring in cars into Australia with OBD II sockets but they were encoded with the manufacturers own proprietary codes. I don't think Australia has adopted the OBD II standard yet (although I stand corrected) so this could still be the case.

I'm interested in getting a scan tool so I can track all the engine parameters. I don't plan on clearing any fault codes or anything like that just interested to see what’s going on.

Cheers

Andrew

AndrewH · Mar 16th, 2004, 01:03 AM

OK, just in case you wanted to know, and lets face it you probably didn't, you can't use a scan tool (that meets the US/European OBD II standard) on Minis sold in Australia (you can on those sold in counties where OBD II is the standard).

I bought an OBD II scan tool for my Dell PDA from the US. It's a great tool which works quite happily on my folks current model Honda CRV and previous model Holden Jackeroo (which was quite a surprise as it's quite an old model).

One of the great parts about it is that it has a built in Dyno test where you can plug in ambient temp, elevation, barometric pressure etc and it will calculate dyno graphs based on this info and the info available from the OBD. Other useful features are the logging/graphing of the engine sensor readings including manifold pressure, throttle position, intake temp, speed, RPM, fuel trim, etc etc and any logged or pending fault codes and a description (this actually showed up a fault in the transmission of the Jackeroo - probably explains the strange grinding noise that has just developed when it is put into 4WD).

It's just a shame that BMW decided to knobble it so you can't use it in Australia. Blast their oily hides!

All so they force you to get it serviced at the dealer - I would have anyway, I'm just into gizmos and thought it would be interesting.

gazah · Mar 16th, 2004, 02:38 AM

interesting info andrew, thanks for the update!

IML337 · Mar 17th, 2004, 03:12 AM

this is interesting, and something I was actually about to try myself

I must confess I don't know a lot about OBD and the differences between the I and II standards, but I didn't think what you're saying BMW Aus has done is really possible or feasible?

ah well - where's Snoopy then?

AndrewH · Mar 17th, 2004, 03:48 AM

OBD II doesn't become standard in Australia until Jan 2005. It is essentially a system that monitors the environmental aspects of the engine management system and is used to ensure vehicles sold continue to comply with EPA emissions standards (and that this compliance can be checked by non-dealer technicians such at registration authorities).

I have been advised by someone that has direct experience in this area that some manufacturers actually either switch off the link to the connector, alter the hardware interface or use it to provide non-standard info down a couple of the pins (which I think is the case with the Mini's). Nissan's for example have a totally different connector even though the same vehicles are sold in the US with the OBD II connector.

Don't forget that Minis are sold in more markets that don't require OBD II than those that do. And there are a lot of dealers in these markets that don't want to loose business to other service outlets (and BMW probably don't want dodgy service operators servicing their cars).

There was a very strong lobbying effort on behalf of the vehicle manufacturers regarding the introduction of OBD II in Australia, hence its start date of 2005 when it has been in force in the US since 1996 and even earlier for OBD I.

gazah · Mar 17th, 2004, 05:05 AM

so [theoretically] would an OBD II interface be able to throw a whole bunch of real-time engine data onto an LCD & do away with separate guages etc etc?

IML337 · Mar 17th, 2004, 07:09 AM

yep - if you search around the internet you'll see people are making LCD dashboards and such using data from OBD ports

Thanks for the info AndrewH

Dooks · Mar 17th, 2004, 12:45 PM

OK calling all h4x0r5... whip out those M68k circuit boards and start deciphering!

AndrewH · Mar 17th, 2004, 09:30 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IML337

yep - if you search around the internet you'll see people are making LCD dashboards and such using data from OBD ports

Thanks for the info AndrewH

No problem, happy to help (well sort of).

If anyone finds anything else out, please let us know.

I preface the following by saying that I actually have no idea

. There are seven pins (out of 16) in the OBD II in the Mini, the OBD II scan tool only uses 3. So I'm guessing that the other 4 pins (and perhaps one or two of the others as I think one is an earth??) are used by the BMW technical equipment to do all their stuff no matter where it is sold. This would mean that it would be easy for them to program the software not to send data to the OBD II pins while still being able to plug their equipment into it. What is interesting is that 3 of the OBD II pins (7, 8 and 16 are bridged when the OBD connector cap is closed) so I wonder if it maybe can detect when the cap is taken off???

Oh well, it's for greater minds than mine to ponder

JME · Mar 17th, 2004, 11:13 PM

Theres an article on www.autospeed.com.au that reviews a tool that can read the OBD II information into a palm pilot. Apparantly even though some manufacturers install additional features the tool can still read all the mandated information. It would be an interesting toy to muck around with, shame it's about AUS$400

AndrewH · Mar 18th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by JME

Theres an article on www.autospeed.com.au that reviews a tool that can read the OBD II information into a palm pilot. Apparantly even though some manufacturers install additional features the tool can still read all the mandated information. It would be an interesting toy to muck around with, shame it's about AUS$400

JME, this is pretty much standard for scan tools (the one I got does it). A good example of additional info from the OBD that the scan tools wouldn't pick up is instantaneous fuel consumption which you can see through the consol test (described here http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?f..._obc_functions

) but is not part of the emissions tests of the OBD II standard so you wouldn't see it on a scan tool.

Feb 10th, 2004, 10:39 PM	#1
AndrewH Were there Oompa loompas? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canberra Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 4,208 Offline	OBD II in Australia Is the OBD II socket in the Mini's sold in Australia compatible with what is sold in the US and Europe? Are all the output codes the same and to the OBD II standard that is used in the US and Europe? I know that at one stage some car manufacturers were bring in cars into Australia with OBD II sockets but they were encoded with the manufacturers own proprietary codes. I don't think Australia has adopted the OBD II standard yet (although I stand corrected) so this could still be the case. I'm interested in getting a scan tool so I can track all the engine parameters. I don't plan on clearing any fault codes or anything like that just interested to see what’s going on. Cheers Andrew

Mar 16th, 2004, 02:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
gazah M2 Procrastinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: sydney, OZ! Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 2,045 Offline	interesting info andrew, thanks for the update! come MOTOR with clubMINI

Mar 17th, 2004, 05:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
gazah M2 Procrastinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: sydney, OZ! Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 2,045 Offline	so [theoretically] would an OBD II interface be able to throw a whole bunch of real-time engine data onto an LCD & do away with separate guages etc etc? come MOTOR with clubMINI

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Mar 16th, 2004, 01:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
AndrewH Were there Oompa loompas? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canberra Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 4,208 Offline	OK, just in case you wanted to know, and lets face it you probably didn't, you can't use a scan tool (that meets the US/European OBD II standard) on Minis sold in Australia (you can on those sold in counties where OBD II is the standard). I bought an OBD II scan tool for my Dell PDA from the US. It's a great tool which works quite happily on my folks current model Honda CRV and previous model Holden Jackeroo (which was quite a surprise as it's quite an old model). One of the great parts about it is that it has a built in Dyno test where you can plug in ambient temp, elevation, barometric pressure etc and it will calculate dyno graphs based on this info and the info available from the OBD. Other useful features are the logging/graphing of the engine sensor readings including manifold pressure, throttle position, intake temp, speed, RPM, fuel trim, etc etc and any logged or pending fault codes and a description (this actually showed up a fault in the transmission of the Jackeroo - probably explains the strange grinding noise that has just developed when it is put into 4WD). It's just a shame that BMW decided to knobble it so you can't use it in Australia. Blast their oily hides! All so they force you to get it serviced at the dealer - I would have anyway, I'm just into gizmos and thought it would be interesting.

Mar 17th, 2004, 03:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
IML337 saving the world Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Aus Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 3,063 Offline	this is interesting, and something I was actually about to try myself I must confess I don't know a lot about OBD and the differences between the I and II standards, but I didn't think what you're saying BMW Aus has done is really possible or feasible? ah well - where's Snoopy then?

Mar 17th, 2004, 03:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
AndrewH Were there Oompa loompas? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canberra Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 4,208 Offline	OBD II doesn't become standard in Australia until Jan 2005. It is essentially a system that monitors the environmental aspects of the engine management system and is used to ensure vehicles sold continue to comply with EPA emissions standards (and that this compliance can be checked by non-dealer technicians such at registration authorities). I have been advised by someone that has direct experience in this area that some manufacturers actually either switch off the link to the connector, alter the hardware interface or use it to provide non-standard info down a couple of the pins (which I think is the case with the Mini's). Nissan's for example have a totally different connector even though the same vehicles are sold in the US with the OBD II connector. Don't forget that Minis are sold in more markets that don't require OBD II than those that do. And there are a lot of dealers in these markets that don't want to loose business to other service outlets (and BMW probably don't want dodgy service operators servicing their cars). There was a very strong lobbying effort on behalf of the vehicle manufacturers regarding the introduction of OBD II in Australia, hence its start date of 2005 when it has been in force in the US since 1996 and even earlier for OBD I.

Mar 17th, 2004, 07:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
IML337 saving the world Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Aus Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 3,063 Offline	yep - if you search around the internet you'll see people are making LCD dashboards and such using data from OBD ports Thanks for the info AndrewH

Mar 17th, 2004, 12:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dooks Hello World! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 309 Offline	OK calling all h4x0r5... whip out those M68k circuit boards and start deciphering!

Mar 17th, 2004, 09:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
AndrewH Were there Oompa loompas? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canberra Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 4,208 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by IML337 yep - if you search around the internet you'll see people are making LCD dashboards and such using data from OBD ports Thanks for the info AndrewH No problem, happy to help (well sort of). If anyone finds anything else out, please let us know. I preface the following by saying that I actually have no idea . There are seven pins (out of 16) in the OBD II in the Mini, the OBD II scan tool only uses 3. So I'm guessing that the other 4 pins (and perhaps one or two of the others as I think one is an earth??) are used by the BMW technical equipment to do all their stuff no matter where it is sold. This would mean that it would be easy for them to program the software not to send data to the OBD II pins while still being able to plug their equipment into it. What is interesting is that 3 of the OBD II pins (7, 8 and 16 are bridged when the OBD connector cap is closed) so I wonder if it maybe can detect when the cap is taken off??? Oh well, it's for greater minds than mine to ponder

Mar 17th, 2004, 11:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
JME MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canberra, Australia Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 151 Offline	Theres an article on www.autospeed.com.au that reviews a tool that can read the OBD II information into a palm pilot. Apparantly even though some manufacturers install additional features the tool can still read all the mandated information. It would be an interesting toy to muck around with, shame it's about AUS$400

Mar 18th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
AndrewH Were there Oompa loompas? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canberra Local Time: 04:00 AM Posts: 4,208 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by JME Theres an article on www.autospeed.com.au that reviews a tool that can read the OBD II information into a palm pilot. Apparantly even though some manufacturers install additional features the tool can still read all the mandated information. It would be an interesting toy to muck around with, shame it's about AUS$400 JME, this is pretty much standard for scan tools (the one I got does it). A good example of additional info from the OBD that the scan tools wouldn't pick up is instantaneous fuel consumption which you can see through the consol test (described here http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?f..._obc_functions ) but is not part of the emissions tests of the OBD II standard so you wouldn't see it on a scan tool.

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