[IML337]

your sister has WHAT?!

[minigolf]

The last time I got RBTd was at Eden, but that was the first time since I moved back to Canberra in 1998. When I was in Melbourne you'd get RBTd on Princes Hwy near Chapel Street quite a bit. (I think I got those road names right!)

Oh yeah, you shouldn't drink Drive ... it's a laundry detergent.

[Baker]

If I get pulled over for a random drug test, I'll be asking them for a note to give to my boss/client explaining why I am running 5 mins late.

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

I have been breath tested around 15-20 times over the last 3-4 years.

If you want to get breath tested, go down to the snow

This year I got stopped on the drive up to the snow from Jindy to Perisher at around 8am 3 days in a row

I got tested, 3 times in one day, at 8am at Wilsons valley in the morning, then at 4pm at Berridale on the way home and again at 5pm at Bredbo

Also, I frequently get breathtested on the way to work in the mornings. Often they have one set up on the Cumberland Highway, just after the bridge over Polding Rd, where they often have 20 coppers stopping everyone.

Strangely enough, in the last 5 years I have only ever been stopped in the morning or afternoon, and never in the evening, when I am more likely to be ****ed. I guess it is cheaper for the coppers to get there numbers up during the day, where they don't have to pay penalty rates

Mind you, they do seem to catch a lot of people in the mornings.

Cheers

Robbo

[chosta]

On the 11th (last sunday), a person i knew was involved in a car accident and died at the scene. He wasnt driving, just a passenger of a dc5r with a drunk idiot behind the wheel. It seems the driver always survives the accident. I didnt really know him well, but most of my friends did. I hardly knew him yet when someone you've met and seen dies like that, it still hits you hard...

No matter how much you try and change the laws that govern our roads, people will still die....unfortunately, its inevitable. It isnt only because they are driving high powered cars and they cant control it, its not because we dont know how to react in an emergency...it all comes down to STUPIDTY...if you think about it, all the incidents that we have witnessed on television when p-platers smash their cars up, listen to the explanation of how it occured. They all come down to the driver's fault, not the fact that he lost control of a 'too-powerful' sports car, its because he/she was doing something stupid.

Coming from a P-plater like myself who has seen the 'underground' street racing scene, nothing will change. You'll just see alot more P-platers wrapping their family's or outdated cars (which is even more dangerous) around poles.


Rest in peace Paul...

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by KGB

They sure do earn a buck from ciggies though dont they.....

Not nearly as much as it costs us in health/hospital bills.

[minigolf]

Sad news chosta. You make some very valid points.

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Red&blackS

I blame it on computer games.

It teaches you you are invincible - crash and hit restart and awya you go again.

DAMN COMPUTERS!!

You have a point here

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by ScottyB

Im surprised you guys have missed the whole RBT thing.

I can say in all seriousness, that basically once a fortnight, I'll get RBT'd on the way down to Pie on Sunday. Most of the time through Belmont/Swansea (single car units that flag me in) and weekend before last it was just down past the Doyalson Exchange. They had the full two car crew, paddy wagon and two trucks. Waved me in just as I went over the hill.

Theyre out early.

Since I got the MINI I must have been RBT'd 10 or 15 times I reckon.

Just one breath test in about 10 years for me. Soon after I got the MINI I was pulled over, the cop chatted for about 15mins about the MINI and his old mini. Eventually he said he better breathalyse me and let me go.

You get done so much because you are young.

[Smurfn]

I think something needs to be done. Whether this is the correct answer or not is another thing. I think it should be based on power, not just engine size/additions.

I really don't think that "Driver Education" is the magic cure that everyone is believing. Half the idiots on the road can't read or add 2+2, yet "driver education" will make them safe

[swamos]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

I think something needs to be done. Whether this is the correct answer or not is another thing. I think it should be based on power, not just engine size/additions.

I really don't think that "Driver Education" is the magic cure that everyone is believing. Half the idiots on the road can't read or add 2+2, yet "driver education" will make them safe

I 100% agree. Education can make someone who wants to be a safe driver even safer, which IMHO is a large portion of those out there. As to the others you speak of, the problem there is no government is prepared to say "sorry, you just can't have a licence"

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos

I 100% agree. Education can make someone who wants to be a safe driver even safer, which IMHO is a large portion of those out there. As to the others you speak of, the problem there is no government is prepared to say "sorry, you just can't have a licence"

That is the problem. A lot of people should never have licences. But we have got a society that thinks that driving is a right not a priviledge, and it should be the other way around
(this problem is not just with licences either )

[KGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

Not nearly as much as it costs us in health/hospital bills.

Challenge...I'd say they do earn more than it costs.

Right from the tobacco growers upwards.....that $10 pack probably has $7-$8 of taxes.

[AndrewH]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

That is the problem. A lot of people should never have licences. But we have got a society that thinks that driving is a right not a priviledge, and it should be the other way around
(this problem is not just with licences either )

The problem is, where do you draw the line. There are people on here that have lost their licence, does society say to them "terribly sorry, but because you were stupid enough to loose your licence by doing things that put other people at risk, you can never drive again"? There are some serious social equity issues that need to be considered too. If you live out in the boondocks and you can't drive and there is no adequate public transport, what do you do then? Is society then expected to support you?

Another problem is that a significant number of road accidents are actually caused by people that are unlicensed. How do we solve this problem?

This gets back to my earlier point. Because there are so many behavioural issues that need to be dealt with in order to make drivers less of a risk to themselves and others, aren't we better off focusing on improving the safety of the road environment and the vehicles using it so that when the inevitable mistakes happens they don't result in tragedy? After all, even the most skilled drivers make mistakes.

I'm not meaning to be antagonistic - just posing some questions that will hopefully get people thinking.

[poki]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

That is the problem. A lot of people should never have licences. But we have got a society that thinks that driving is a right not a priviledge, and it should be the other way around
(this problem is not just with licences either )

A valid point. However - it begs the question. What is going to stop unlicenced people from driving? The threat of gaol doesn't seem to be enough to stop them driving now.

[ScottyB]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

You get done so much because you are young.

I dont think being RBT'd has anything to do with being young. There have been probably 3 or 4 occasions where the cars infront have gone in and Ive been let past.

If the cop has that good a pair of eyes to tell Im 21 from like 200m away in a moving vehicle, then good on him

[KGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewH

Another problem is that a significant number of road accidents are actually caused by people that are unlicensed. How do we solve this problem?

$10,000.00 fine, cant pay, work it off...but then the civil libertarians would be outraged...

[KGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewH

This gets back to my earlier point. Because there are so many behavioural issues that need to be dealt with in order to make drivers less of a risk to themselves and others, aren't we better off focusing on improving the safety of the road environment and the vehicles using it so that when the inevitable mistakes happens they don't result in tragedy? After all, even the most skilled drivers make mistakes.

Bubble wrap the world.....let them crash into it indiscrimately and with total impunity.

[Mini2v]

Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewH

The problem is, where do you draw the line. There are people on here that have lost their licence, does society say to them "terribly sorry, but because you were stupid enough to loose your licence by doing things that put other people at risk, you can never drive again"? There are some serious social equity issues that need to be considered too. If you live out in the boondocks and you can't drive and there is no adequate public transport, what do you do then? Is society then expected to support you?

Another problem is that a significant number of road accidents are actually caused by people that are unlicensed. How do we solve this problem?

This gets back to my earlier point. Because there are so many behavioural issues that need to be dealt with in order to make drivers less of a risk to themselves and others, aren't we better off focusing on improving the safety of the road environment and the vehicles using it so that when the inevitable mistakes happens they don't result in tragedy? After all, even the most skilled drivers make mistakes.

I'm not meaning to be antagonistic - just posing some questions that will hopefully get people thinking.

Andrew and others,

Some very wise comments made here they should be posted on the RTA site as feedback on their proposals.

I have been involved in Driver Training for 15 years or more, admittedly from a completely different angle, but it still boils down to helping people understand how their vehicle works and how to drive it to the conditions. And it works a treat! So do not under estimate the power of appropriate training. Of recent and due to my experience and qulafications in Training etc I have been involved in developing a Defensive Driver Training course for employees of a very senior Government Dept. We have conducted 3 of these now and the feedback from very senior Government officials on the worth of appropriate driver training has been amazing. One of the issues that came out of this was the importance of ABS and would you believe Traction Control.

To pick up on Andrew's point about road environment, you will not stop stupid people driving fast and making mistakes, you will not stop unlicensed people driving and having accidents, you will not stop the rush of blood that makes all of us do silly things, and that is no matter if we are P platers or have a good driving record for 30+ years.

We all do stupid things sometimes. But perhaps we can ease the pain a little when all else fails. As an example, only last Monday I was at Eastern Creek evaluating another of our Dept's Defensive Driver Training courses. Once everyone knew how to activate their ABS in an emergency stop their stopping distances were reduced by up to 50%! That in itself may save a life or two. But what really struck me was when i had a turn on the Skid Circuit, the purpose of the exercise was to drive around a corner too fast until the car lost control and then teach you what to do in such a situation to stop as qucikly as possible or regain control.

For the purpose of the exercise the DSC was switched off in my MINI. I went quicker and quicker around the wet track, occassionally loosing traction and applying a little opposite lock and correcting the situation, But eventually the speed was too great and the MINI performed a beautiful 180 degree spin. Under instruction I applied the brake and stopped the car on the road, facing in the opposite direction. If that was a public street, I just avoided hitting a pole or moving into oncoming traffic, all i would have to do now is hope that any following traffic knew how to avoid me.

The next time around I left the DSC activated, approached the corner at the same speed as previously and before I even had ime to react, the DSC activated, cut the power to the engine, applied the brake and, low and behold the slide stopped immeadiately and I continued around the corner in my lane, no accident, no facing the wrong way, no one else having to take evasive action.

Result, why the hell isn't DSC or similar, standard on all cars, it will save lives. And if you are ordering a MINI include DSC.

Good training will help those that listen until the crimson mist descends. Good roads will help people avoid hitting things, but in a country as large as Australia it is impossible to implement everywhere. Cars that can take over when the driver has lost control will save lives, without a doubt. So perhaps this is the answer, a combination of all.

If a P plater can purchase a 300ZX twin Turbo for $14,000 which does 0-100 in 4.6 seconds (my daughters boy friend!) Then perhaps we need to say, this car also needs some special traction aids to make sure it can help avoid an accident. If it it isn't fitted then this car is simply not registrable. Yes it will cost more money to fix, but how much money is being spent on after market gear by the go fast fraternity?

My two Bobs worth.

Vic

[AndrewH]

Vic, totally agree with all your comments and it's interesting to hear your perspective on this. I also agree with your comments about DSC (even though I haven’t got it in mine). Often the problem is that technology moves too fast for government to keep up particularly in the area of mandated standards. This is one of the issues we are thinking about at work as we speak.

The Australian Automobile Association released the results of their survey of motorists priorities and attitudes earlier this year. The following quote is from the Press Release accompanying the launch of the survey.

“The vast majority of people nominated driver behaviour issues like speed, drink driving and fatigue, as the causes of road accidents. Only 13% of respondents ranked roads in their top three causes of road crashes even though fixing the roads has a greater potential to save lives than most people think.

The Federal Government’s National Road Safety Strategy estimates that by 2010 around 332 lives could be saved each year through improved roads, 175 because of safer vehicles, 158 by better driver behaviour and 35 by the use of new technology"