[minigolf]

I just heard a quick snippet on JJJ news reporting about a think-tank in Canberra, comprising represenatives from all state/territory governments, that is tyring to formulate out strategies to curb fatalities among young drivers.

First idea to gain media attention is banning P-platers from driving cars with either V8, turbo or supercharged engines. No worries, I'll just get in my XR6, Hemi Charger, XU-1, or stock standard Camry, Commodore, Falcon or Magna then.



Lets spell it out for them, and this applies to drivers of ALL AGES ...

D-R-I-V-E-R T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G

[IML337]

what if a P-plater wanted to drive an old turbo diesel 4wd then?

[MickyD]

you beat me to it tim.... exactly what I was going to say.

In victoria we already have a power to weight ratio limit for P-Platers, it's 125kw per tonne, which still lets through some fairly seriously quick cars, i.e. most WRX's, Falcon Turbo (I think...) etc etc.

[Todd!]

Im a P plater... with a Mini Cooper S...

I have done Mini driver training... I have driven around race tracks in 500hp cobras... I would consider myself a better than average driver on most days.

Saying that, my mini ended up on its side a few weeks back I will be the first to be critical of myself as I dont really have anyone else to blame.

I read a statistic yesterday that 25 in 400 people killed on Victorian roads were P platers.

I personally believe that is high, but not that much considering the hours spent by most P platers on the road. I would love to see the percentage of people killed that were over 55 in single vehicle accidents or people over 65 under the influence of perscription drugs. I think that it is all knee-jerky.

I have read somwhere that in the 24 months after drivers undergoing advanced driver training - 60% of attendees are involved in a major accident. Does that just heighten confidence?

It only took me 2 months but Im an extra special n00b

Todd

[minigolf]

Well not all driver training needs to be at a race track and involve doing J-turns does it.

[Todd!]

It also has the basics Lima.

They were reverse J turns anyway!

Todd

[Mike Clarke]

Quote: Originally Posted by Red&blackS

Im a P plater... with a Mini Cooper S...

I have done Mini driver training... I have driven around race tracks in 500hp cobras... I would consider myself a better than average driver on most days.

Saying that, my mini ended up on its side a few weeks back I will be the first to be critical of myself as I dont really have anyone else to blame.

I read a statistic yesterday that 25 in 400 people killed on Victorian roads were P platers.

I personally believe that is high, but not that much considering the hours spent by most P platers on the road. I would love to see the percentage of people killed that were over 55 in single vehicle accidents or people over 65 under the influence of perscription drugs. I think that it is all knee-jerky.

I have read somwhere that in the 24 months after drivers undergoing advanced driver training - 60% of attendees are involved in a major accident. Does that just heighten confidence?

It only took me 2 months but Im an extra special n00b

Todd

Todd, never believe statistics put out by governments.
However Insurance companies are very hard headed and they load up premiums on young drivers for a very good reason, they know who has most accidents.

Your point about accidents after advanced driver training is well made, I would expect such training to give people a false belief in their ability.

The greatest safety improvement will be when seatbelts and airbags are removed and 8 inch steel spikes are fitted to the centre of the steering wheel.

[Todd!]

Abolish automobiles and put everyone on public transport - thats another way.

[KGB]

saw this morning that the 'government' are proposing some form of advanced driver training for P platers, and with great irony, it would be carried out within the first 12 months of having a licence....gives one 11 months, 29 days etc to further develop bad habits, and potentially cause the problems that the driver training would address.

And they retire with millions in superannuation...dont get me started...

Todd there are always statistical annomalies....usually red & black at that...

[MickyD]

You can legislate driver training
You can legislate against certain cars
You can legislate against too many passengers

Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupidity.

If Gino wants to jump in his dad's GTR and do 200 km/h down a suburban st, no legislation is going to prevent that.

[KGB]

dead right, but for the other 95%(?) who aren't idiots, it is a crime to allow
them onto the roads with only the very little knowledge and experience required to
'obtain' a driver's licence.

[Baker]

I'm a P plater. I'm very annoyed that I get royally shafted for insurance due to the minority (I pay roughly $2700 p/annum for my insurance).

I had this discussion at work the other day - I don't believe driver training will help, as it will give a lot of your easily influenced drivers (especially those who wear their hats just purched on top of their head and drive fooly-sik vl turbos moite) false confidence in their ability.

[KGB]

Were you shown / taught how long it takes to stop your car from various speeds, in the dry / wet, how many metres you actually travel per second, what your reaction times
are etc....probably not ? It will raise your eyebrows.

They dont need to teach corner lines and apex/clipping points, just some basic
vehicle dynamics & physics. And reinforce the most important facets of driving; Concetration & Care.

The idiots will leave 'training' and have their first big one sooner, but the balance might gain some experience at a fraction of the normal cost.

Driving is the most dangerous activity most people undertake.
They'll read a book to bake a better cake or build a better shed...but driving, nah I'll be right....

I'll put the soap box away now.....

[AndrewH]

Oh here we go again - more youth bashing - I think it's becoming a national past time.

Does anyone else find it ironic that Peter Brock is involved in this talk-a-thon/exercise in silliness? I mean sure he seems like a good bloke and all but what kind of mixed messages are they trying to send?

At the end of the day we have 5 star cars driving on 1 star roads.

I reckon a big part of the road safety problem could be solved by removing all the trees and power poles that are growing/installed right at the edge of the road. Humans a fallible, we all make mistakes. Why should a small mistake cost your life because you hit a tree that was allowed to grow too close to the edge of the road or a power pole that a utility company was too lazy to put somewhere else?

Send all those guys and gals on work for the dole out with a chainsaw each and you'll soon fix the problem

We had a meeting at the countries leading road safety research institution the other day and they were telling us about one of the driver simulation exercises they were doing on fatigue (the simulator is absolutely amazing). Any way, they hook people up to a brain thingy that shows brain activity. They showed that people can be almost at the point of sleep in relation to their brain wave activity but still have their eyes open and are controlling a car, ie avoiding obstacles etc. We've probably all been there at some point.

The way the media and some of the so called experts carry on, you’d think that the problem with L and P plate drivers is getting worse but in fact 30% less L and P plate drivers are dieing on roads now than 10 years ago.

Here is an interesting article by Miranda Devine that appeared in the Sun Herald a couple of weeks ago - worth a read or if you haven't got a subscription go here and click on the article titled "Say what you like about teen drivers, but fatalities are down"

[minigolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by KGB

Were you shown / taught how long it takes to stop your car from various speeds, in the dry / wet, how many metres you actually travel per second, what your reaction times
are etc....probably not ? It will raise your eyebrows.

They dont need to teach corner lines and apex/clipping points, just some basic
vehicle dynamics & physics. And reinforce the most important facets of driving; Concetration & Care.

Perfectly put.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by KGB

Were you shown / taught how long it takes to stop your car from various speeds, in the dry / wet, how many metres you actually travel per second, what your reaction times
are etc....probably not ? It will raise your eyebrows.

Hi,

Those are the exact things that the initial BMW driver training course focuses on, as well as ABS braking, emergency evasion techniques, as well as basics like seating position, steering wheel technique etc. I haven't done the mini driver training, so I can't speak for what they teach. This kind of driver training course can be done well away from a racetrack, with no speeds higher than 80kmh.

BTW, the new proposed regulations in NSW are complete crap. I currently have an V8 X5 and a bog standard mini cooper S, along with a cooper S racecar that I wouldn't let my kids near.

In a years time, when my son gets his L's he can't drive either of my cars, as one is a V8 and one is supercharged. Pity I still dont have the M3, as a 3.2l 6 cylinder is allowed So does this mean I have to go and buy a 15 year old shitbox for $2k with no airbags, no stability control, no ABS (actually probably no brakes at all) etc, because my son is not allowed to drive any of my cars

You can't simply categorise cars as acceptable or not based upon the number of cylinders and turbo/superchargers etc. They should make a judgement on each car, based upon the individual circumstances, eg power to weight, safety features etc.

Cheers

Robbo

[Todd!]

Quote: Originally Posted by KGB

saw this morning that the 'government' are proposing some form of advanced driver training for P platers, and with great irony, it would be carried out within the first 12 months of having a licence....gives one 11 months, 29 days etc to further develop bad habits, and potentially cause the problems that the driver training would address.

And they retire with millions in superannuation...dont get me started...

Todd there are always statistical annomalies....usually red & black at that...

My question is too, how many people actually crash at the begining of their first 12 months...

Why not make them do it before they get their license? What is the benefit of giving them 12 months??

Todd

[play fife]

Im on my P plates but drive a cooper ( should i be posting on this theard, lol ).

Thank chirst i get off my P plates on Feb 15th 2005.......only another 2 months to go.

If they need to make changes i believe making a kw limit may be needed, make the limit 100kw, the best car they can get is the 100kw gti pug 206, & the current corollas.

Daniel

Ps: I hate P platers & the name they have given themselfs.

[Todd!]

I dont want to be the one who says it man, but being in the same situation as you were a few months ago... werent you the one who stacked when he was criving too fast around a round about??

I think this is an example of what they are trying to teach us:

LIFE PRESERVATION.

Todd

[Mike Clarke]

This is the sort of driving skill everyone should be taught before they are given a licence.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/rednecksurfing.html