MINI2

2cati · Jun 9th, 2003, 07:33 AM

Upon reading the reviews of the Cooper S, I've decided to sell my '94 968 Cab which was not getting much use in the summers & taking uo too much room in the garage.

I think a Cooper S with the JCW kit would fit the bill!

In reviewing the options, I thought I would like the sun roof but after sitting in the car with it opened, I'm indifferent - not sure if I like the offset (opening relaative to my head).

On other item - does the sunroof take away chassis rigidity?

Any other suggestions/considerations?

Thanks!

MiniMan7 · Jun 9th, 2003, 08:06 AM

Hey,

Where abouts in Canada are you from?

Adam

paulmon · Jun 9th, 2003, 08:15 AM

2cati, if you're in it for performance the sunroof, while not making THAT much difference in regidity adds around 60-70lbs to the car! It also makes quite a bit of wind noise, or so I've heard.

Paul

Humourl3ss · Jun 9th, 2003, 05:35 PM

Don't forget that the extra weight is in the worst possible place in the car: up high. I can't see the point of buying the sunroof; it's just one more thing that adds cost, weight, and leaks and squeaks.

As for the JCW kit.... I hope your budget can manage it!

-CW

Tonyt3 · Jun 9th, 2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Humourl3ss
Don't forget that the extra weight is in the worst possible place in the car: up high. I can't see the point of buying the sunroof; it's just one more thing that adds cost, weight, and leaks and squeaks.

As for the JCW kit.... I hope your budget can manage it!

-CW

The sunroof is nice to have, it lightens the interior of the car, and is a good resale item. However, it is close to useless over 40mph.

It shouldn't rattle or leak, and I don't believe it weakens the car to an extent that you could feel it. It does weigh a fair amount though, so if you want ultimate performance ditch the sunroof. If you intend to enjoy the car over the summer months, get the sunroof.

Jomnhta · Jun 10th, 2003, 01:20 AM

If you are not getting into hardcore driving like Auto-X, I think the sun-roof is worth getting since it really lightens up the car.

IMO, the MINI has already got a pretty low CG, you won't feel much difference in normal street driving.

Adding weight, yes it will, would u care so much if you lose the red light sprint by 0.5s?

I like the sun-roof

2cati · Jun 10th, 2003, 09:26 AM

Adam - I'm from Oakville - we should meet up as I'd really like to see your machine with the H&Rs.

As for the budget - well as I said I'm selling my 968 6 speed Cab (+ the OEM 18" 3pc "Speedline for Porsche" wheels - extremely rare) in the next 3 weeks which should get me into a well equipped Cooper S.

The sun roof looks a like an amazing option in the magazines/printed ads but my initial impression from sitting in the car did not impress me - I'll try it on again.

May try one autocross.

I'll try to get away to the local dealer on Saturday to sample a few variants. In discussions with a sales representative, it seems they have a few Cooper S models in stock and confident they can trade with the other dealers to get exactly what I decide on.....Good news as I heard it was quite the wait last year! Also, some new options now available that were not last year.....The sales lady was not that familiar with the JCW kit and stated the price was not set ( I heard otherwise from downtown mini ~ $6800 + $800 install ?).

Humourl3ss · Jun 10th, 2003, 05:08 PM

That figure of $7,600 for the JCW strikes me as low. Most guesstimates I've seen are in the $8,500-$9,000 range (pre-tax).

-CW

2cati · Jun 10th, 2003, 06:14 PM

The price actually is stated on the Mini.ca site under FAQ.

"How much will a John Cooper Works High Performance Tuning Kit for the Cooper S Cost?
The Retail price of the Cooper S kit is $6,800 plus the cost of installation."

I'm expecting some discount if the JCW kit is purcahsed at the same time. The JCW is an aftersales item that typically has huge dealer margins.

So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks!

Humourl3ss · Jun 10th, 2003, 06:31 PM

Interesting. I haven't visited mini.ca in months; they were painfully slow to update it in the past and I didn't think that had changed.

The price is still not chump change, but it's a little less unpalatable than the $8,500 (plus installation) cost I heard bandied about 2 months ago.

-CW

paulmon · Jun 10th, 2003, 10:14 PM

Don't forget the tax ontop of all that so you're looking at over $8500. Ouch.

Paul

2cati · Jun 11th, 2003, 12:49 PM

Quote:

So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks!

I'll be visiting Oakville Mini - I don't expect any discount (however minor) as they must be affiliated with Budds BMW. My experience with them was NO negoitiation, yet the same day Downtown BMW reduced the price by $1000 on new 3.0 X5 - we bought it!

I guess no one was able to get any discount or anything thrown in - everyone paid MSRP?

Humourl3ss · Jun 11th, 2003, 05:12 PM

MSRP here from MINI Oakville, though I did get a fantastic trade-in.

-CW

HarryHBMCC · Jun 11th, 2003, 08:04 PM

On past model years and demos there are discounts but if you are ordering your car I think you can forget about a discount.

Harry

2cati · Jun 12th, 2003, 11:29 AM

Thanks guys for your feedback.

Well I'll be visiting the dealship Saturday - I don't think they will take my car (or give me a reasonable price).

Some recent pictures....I'll probably advertise it within the next two weeks.

http://hobbystage.net/porsche/2cati/

Thanks Again!

supercuper · Jun 12th, 2003, 11:22 PM

I just picked up my new All Black Cooper S on Monday. It is such a beautiful car and I would definitely recommend the trade. (I also got a good trade on my 2002 Cooper). This car is better then I could have possibly imagined. I have the sunroof and I really like it, though the rain today stopped me from using it. I love the sun it lets in and seeing that I don't do much highway driving it's great. It does make a lot of noise at speed granted.

I've heard that each dealership is getting at limited supply of JCW kits, something like two or three per dealership, correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I heard.

Alex

mikkol · Jun 13th, 2003, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2cati
So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks!

If you are trading in your Prosche baby, the trade-in price of your car can be negotiated and you save heck lot of taxes from it right. Oh and in case you don't know (I don't know about that until few months ago) if the MINI dealer doesn't offer you the trade-in price you are looking for, find a used car dealer that takes your car at the right price, and then tell your MINI dealer to arrange w/ such dealer to make the deal! That's what my friend did a few months ago. The dealers are happy, you are happy coz you save the tax and avoid the hassle to sell your car by yourself. Good luck on your trade

MiniMan7 · Jun 14th, 2003, 01:26 AM

Hey 2cati, if you wanna get together sometime to check out the H&R springs, just send me a PM and we'll set something up.

Adam

2cati · Jun 20th, 2003, 09:36 AM

Guys - I'm booked on the on hour Mini "test flight" session at Downsview airport for Friday - 1 hour session. Apparently the BMW instructors will be on hand to show us what these cars can do....

Well, I stopped by the dealer again tonight & finally had time to take a Cooper S for a drive (16" wheels).

I had to take some time to adjust to the razor quick turn-in! Seemed to have unbelievable handling, I did not push it as hard as my Porsche as I'm familiar as how it reacts at the limits - but I was impressed.

The demo 2002 I took out had 7000km, sunroof & there were some minor/rattles (either sunroof or other interior panels..). Again minor but I felt should not be present for a low milage car. The steering wheel was not as pictured in the brouchers..

The motor seemed responsive (accellerating) however it was strange going through the gears (lifing slightly off the throtle) with the motor not dropping (much) in RPM. I noticed this also whil in neutral - Motor revs up fine but much slower rev down - will take some geting used to.

The power was a little disapointing but the chassis set up allowing you to fly though coners without braking is addictive.

Right now I'm on the fence - I'll see what happens tomorrow!

HarryHBMCC · Jun 20th, 2003, 10:31 AM

The fly-by-wire throttle doesn't let the revs down quickly, in an attempt to keep emissions low. In reality, you can shift quickly without any problems. Once you start to let the clutch out, the revs drop no problem.

Harry

Jun 9th, 2003, 07:33 AM	#1
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	Considering a Cooper S Upon reading the reviews of the Cooper S, I've decided to sell my '94 968 Cab which was not getting much use in the summers & taking uo too much room in the garage. I think a Cooper S with the JCW kit would fit the bill! In reviewing the options, I thought I would like the sun roof but after sitting in the car with it opened, I'm indifferent - not sure if I like the offset (opening relaative to my head). On other item - does the sunroof take away chassis rigidity? Any other suggestions/considerations? Thanks!

Jun 9th, 2003, 08:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
MiniMan7 Let's Motor. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Local Time: 10:31 PM Posts: 2,897 Offline	Hey, Where abouts in Canada are you from? Adam http://www.mini2.com/gallery/personal/16791/32165.jpg

Jun 9th, 2003, 08:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 789 Offline	2cati, if you're in it for performance the sunroof, while not making THAT much difference in regidity adds around 60-70lbs to the car! It also makes quite a bit of wind noise, or so I've heard. Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Jun 9th, 2003, 05:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Humourl3ss Now With More Cowbell Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada City Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 1,767 Offline	Don't forget that the extra weight is in the worst possible place in the car: up high. I can't see the point of buying the sunroof; it's just one more thing that adds cost, weight, and leaks and squeaks. As for the JCW kit.... I hope your budget can manage it! -CW Global Moderator

Jun 10th, 2003, 09:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	Adam - I'm from Oakville - we should meet up as I'd really like to see your machine with the H&Rs. As for the budget - well as I said I'm selling my 968 6 speed Cab (+ the OEM 18" 3pc "Speedline for Porsche" wheels - extremely rare) in the next 3 weeks which should get me into a well equipped Cooper S. The sun roof looks a like an amazing option in the magazines/printed ads but my initial impression from sitting in the car did not impress me - I'll try it on again. May try one autocross. I'll try to get away to the local dealer on Saturday to sample a few variants. In discussions with a sales representative, it seems they have a few Cooper S models in stock and confident they can trade with the other dealers to get exactly what I decide on.....Good news as I heard it was quite the wait last year! Also, some new options now available that were not last year.....The sales lady was not that familiar with the JCW kit and stated the price was not set ( I heard otherwise from downtown mini ~ $6800 + $800 install ?). Last edited by 2cati : Jun 10th, 2003 at 09:42 AM.

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Jun 9th, 2003, 05:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 02:31 AM Posts: 6,258 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Humourl3ss Don't forget that the extra weight is in the worst possible place in the car: up high. I can't see the point of buying the sunroof; it's just one more thing that adds cost, weight, and leaks and squeaks. As for the JCW kit.... I hope your budget can manage it! -CW The sunroof is nice to have, it lightens the interior of the car, and is a good resale item. However, it is close to useless over 40mph. It shouldn't rattle or leak, and I don't believe it weakens the car to an extent that you could feel it. It does weigh a fair amount though, so if you want ultimate performance ditch the sunroof. If you intend to enjoy the car over the summer months, get the sunroof.

Jun 10th, 2003, 01:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jomnhta MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: YVR/YYC/HKG Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 68 Offline	If you are not getting into hardcore driving like Auto-X, I think the sun-roof is worth getting since it really lightens up the car. IMO, the MINI has already got a pretty low CG, you won't feel much difference in normal street driving. Adding weight, yes it will, would u care so much if you lose the red light sprint by 0.5s? I like the sun-roof

Jun 10th, 2003, 05:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Humourl3ss Now With More Cowbell Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada City Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 1,767 Offline	That figure of $7,600 for the JCW strikes me as low. Most guesstimates I've seen are in the $8,500-$9,000 range (pre-tax). -CW Global Moderator

Jun 10th, 2003, 06:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	The price actually is stated on the Mini.ca site under FAQ. "How much will a John Cooper Works High Performance Tuning Kit for the Cooper S Cost? The Retail price of the Cooper S kit is $6,800 plus the cost of installation." I'm expecting some discount if the JCW kit is purcahsed at the same time. The JCW is an aftersales item that typically has huge dealer margins. So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks!

Jun 10th, 2003, 06:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Humourl3ss Now With More Cowbell Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada City Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 1,767 Offline	Interesting. I haven't visited mini.ca in months; they were painfully slow to update it in the past and I didn't think that had changed. The price is still not chump change, but it's a little less unpalatable than the $8,500 (plus installation) cost I heard bandied about 2 months ago. -CW Global Moderator

Jun 10th, 2003, 10:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
paulmon MINI2 Senior Derelict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga(Toronto) Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 789 Offline	Don't forget the tax ontop of all that so you're looking at over $8500. Ouch. Paul Southern Ontario MINI Club

Jun 11th, 2003, 12:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	Quote: So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks! I'll be visiting Oakville Mini - I don't expect any discount (however minor) as they must be affiliated with Budds BMW. My experience with them was NO negoitiation, yet the same day Downtown BMW reduced the price by $1000 on new 3.0 X5 - we bought it! I guess no one was able to get any discount or anything thrown in - everyone paid MSRP?

Jun 11th, 2003, 05:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Humourl3ss Now With More Cowbell Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada City Local Time: 09:31 PM Posts: 1,767 Offline	MSRP here from MINI Oakville, though I did get a fantastic trade-in. -CW Global Moderator

Jun 11th, 2003, 08:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:31 PM Posts: 2,686 Offline	On past model years and demos there are discounts but if you are ordering your car I think you can forget about a discount. Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

Jun 12th, 2003, 11:29 AM	#15 (permalink)
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	Thanks guys for your feedback. Well I'll be visiting the dealship Saturday - I don't think they will take my car (or give me a reasonable price). Some recent pictures....I'll probably advertise it within the next two weeks. http://hobbystage.net/porsche/2cati/ Thanks Again!

Jun 12th, 2003, 11:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
supercuper MINI2 Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kitchener,Ontario Local Time: 08:31 PM Posts: 197 Offline	I just picked up my new All Black Cooper S on Monday. It is such a beautiful car and I would definitely recommend the trade. (I also got a good trade on my 2002 Cooper). This car is better then I could have possibly imagined. I have the sunroof and I really like it, though the rain today stopped me from using it. I love the sun it lets in and seeing that I don't do much highway driving it's great. It does make a lot of noise at speed granted. I've heard that each dealership is getting at limited supply of JCW kits, something like two or three per dealership, correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I heard. Alex 2003 B/B Cooper S. Premium. Sport. Sunroof.

Jun 13th, 2003, 03:49 AM	#17 (permalink)
mikkol MINI2 Regular Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Local Time: 06:31 PM Posts: 202 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by 2cati So - have any of you from Ontario had any luck in negotiating any type of discount - however minor? Suggestion?...Thanks! If you are trading in your Prosche baby, the trade-in price of your car can be negotiated and you save heck lot of taxes from it right. Oh and in case you don't know (I don't know about that until few months ago) if the MINI dealer doesn't offer you the trade-in price you are looking for, find a used car dealer that takes your car at the right price, and then tell your MINI dealer to arrange w/ such dealer to make the deal! That's what my friend did a few months ago. The dealers are happy, you are happy coz you save the tax and avoid the hassle to sell your car by yourself. Good luck on your trade

Jun 14th, 2003, 01:26 AM	#18 (permalink)
MiniMan7 Let's Motor. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Local Time: 10:31 PM Posts: 2,897 Offline	Hey 2cati, if you wanna get together sometime to check out the H&R springs, just send me a PM and we'll set something up. Adam http://www.mini2.com/gallery/personal/16791/32165.jpg

Jun 20th, 2003, 09:36 AM	#19 (permalink)
2cati MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Local Time: 01:31 AM Posts: 27 Offline	Guys - I'm booked on the on hour Mini "test flight" session at Downsview airport for Friday - 1 hour session. Apparently the BMW instructors will be on hand to show us what these cars can do.... Well, I stopped by the dealer again tonight & finally had time to take a Cooper S for a drive (16" wheels). I had to take some time to adjust to the razor quick turn-in! Seemed to have unbelievable handling, I did not push it as hard as my Porsche as I'm familiar as how it reacts at the limits - but I was impressed. The demo 2002 I took out had 7000km, sunroof & there were some minor/rattles (either sunroof or other interior panels..). Again minor but I felt should not be present for a low milage car. The steering wheel was not as pictured in the brouchers.. The motor seemed responsive (accellerating) however it was strange going through the gears (lifing slightly off the throtle) with the motor not dropping (much) in RPM. I noticed this also whil in neutral - Motor revs up fine but much slower rev down - will take some geting used to. The power was a little disapointing but the chassis set up allowing you to fly though coners without braking is addictive. Right now I'm on the fence - I'll see what happens tomorrow!

Jun 20th, 2003, 10:31 AM	#20 (permalink)
HarryHBMCC MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can Local Time: 08:31 PM Posts: 2,686 Offline	The fly-by-wire throttle doesn't let the revs down quickly, in an attempt to keep emissions low. In reality, you can shift quickly without any problems. Once you start to let the clutch out, the revs drop no problem. Harry MINI Cooper Cabrio: now the car with go cart handling really feels like an open go cart! "... the only man that can come home at 3 am in the morning without getting into trouble with his spouse is the owner of a British sports car!" -- Phil Bailey

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