[MediocreFred]

Hello,

I have a 2005 CVT that is just over a year old and has 14K miles on it. Since the last couple of months, I've noticed a very odd behavior. Here are the facts:

1. When I brake to a halt (steady braking - no lead foot here), the RPM dips to around 500 for a second before getting back to the usual idling rpm of around 900. While this happens, the car shudders as if it is going to stall, but, it recovers.
2. This happens when I am either in "D" or "SD". Does not happen when I use the steptronic gears.
3. Does not happen when the AC is on, since, the AC keeps the RPM at about 1100.
4. This does not happen if I am in the "Crawling" mode (i.e. no gear is engaged) and I brake to a halt.
5. If I am driving at 20 or 30mph and use the steptronic gears and brakes to step down to second or first gear and then brake to a halt, the RPM stays at the idling rpm of 900.
6. A typical scenario is driving in city traffic and having to stop at a light. I'll be driving at around 30 to 40mph in "D" or "SD" and will gently brake to a halt as I get to the light. As I come to a standstill, the RPM drops from about 2000 to 500 for a second and then returns to 900 where it stays until I start moving again.
7. I've been to the dealer three times to fix this - they are able to reproduce it, but, every time, the technician says he has updated the software, reset the adaptive settings and it's fixed. As I am driving home, I notice that it is not and call the dealer back. Now, I am scheduled for a fourth visit tomorrow.

Any thoughts as to what might be causing this behavior?

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[jazmini]

Do you think it could be the gas you are using? For example, if the gas is poor quality or watered down. Another thing may be that your fuel injectors are clogged up (i.e., dirty), such as from using poor quality gas or driving in dust. I'm just brainstorming here and trying to think of ways that could cause this. That's all I can come up with. Strange that this problem doesn't happen in steptronic, but I'm thinking that is a fluke since it happens in all other modes. It could even be a problem with the internals of the engine.

[MediocreFred]

Jazmini, thanks for the reply. I've always used Shell VPower only - well, a couple of times I was forced to go to a 76 gas station, but, even there, I got the premium kind.

The mini is back at the dealer today; let's see what they come up with this time.

The one other mode in which the RPM drop does not happen is the "crawl" mode. So, if I slow down to say, less than 8 mph, and don't brake to a complete halt, the mini goes into the "crawl" mode. Now, if I brake and come to a halt, the RPM doesn't drop. So, this behavior only happens in "D" and "SD" modes and not in Steptronic or Crawl modes (the reason I didn't mention "crawl" in my original post is that it technically isn't a mode, or, is it?).

If it is a problem with the internals of the engine, I hope they find it and fix it now while it is still under warranty. Until now, they have only looked for error codes from the onboard computer (there weren't any), upgraded the software, installed yet another software patch and reset the adaptive learning settings. From what my Service Advisor has told me and from the report that I have received so far, it doesn't seem like they have looked into the engine.

Would very much appreciate any further thoughts you might have.

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[MediocreFred]

Just got a call from my Service Manager.

Apparently, the technician(s) are at a loss and so, called up MINI Engineering folks in New Jersey and their diagnosis was that the computer between the engine and the transmission (the one that conveys information about the speed, rpm, etc. to the transmission and controls the transmission's response) has gone bad and so, they will be replacing that. It's a part that needs to be ordered and will take a few days.

I brought up the clogged fuel injectors suggestion and was told that they would look at that but, that any such clogging would've tripped the Service Indicator light.

Another thing that the technician observed during his tests was that the harder the braking-to-a-halt, the more pronounced the dip in rpm. I don't usually brake hard and so, hadn't observed that. As an aside, I hope I don't have to get new brakes by the time they are done testing and fixing this problem!

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[jazmini]

Hopefully this computer chip will solve the problem. Sounds like they know what they are doing and are doing their best. I've heard there were two computer chips, one for the engine and one for the transmission, but as you said, the one for the transmission is actually for the interface from the engine to the transmission. Good luck with it all and let us know what happens. It sounds encouraging.

[MediocreFred]

Thanks again, jazmini. my MINI is scheduled to go in next Wednesday for the transplant. Shall update this thread then.

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[nonsequitur]

I swear that I posted to this thread earlier... Hmmm.

Given what your service department says, it seems consistent that the issue will be with the motor control or the software compromises introduced since the early versions to resolve the odd behaviors so thoroughly documented here in the Forums.

From the VT1F Description in the Sticky above, take a look at p.20-22 Oil Pump and p.28 1.5 Emergency Stop.

One of the items we found in track driving is that the gearbox is simply smoother at higher engine rpm. One reason appears to be oil pressure, things happen quicker and more precisely with higher supply pressures and those pressures come from the pump (p.20), which is engine-speed dependent. Your observations are at the slow end of the range, the environment where engine rpm is slowing or has already slowed, because you took your foot off the gas.

Please update the thread as you learn more.

[MediocreFred]

OK, the transplant did not fix it. Just got a call from my Service Manager stating that they replace the computer and that did not fix the problem. The technician here has been talking to an Engineer in NJ, but, no progress has been made. So, the engineer (who apparently is an expert on Transmissions) is coming up here tomorrow to take diagnose and hopefully, fix the problem.

So, for tonight, I am not sure if I can take my MINI back, or, will have to go home with a rental car (at MINI's expense).

Will update this thread tomorrow with more info.

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[olegkalyan]

what happened, end of the story???

[MediocreFred]

Quote: Originally Posted by olegkalyan

what happened, end of the story???

Well, I've had about 6 more visits since my last post, they did a few more tests, took more measurements, and have now sent all the data to the "expert pool" in New Jersey.

My Service Advisor said that there is a chance that the recommendation from the "expert pool" might be to replace the transmission! But, won't know for sure until we hear back from the "expert pool" - should know more by the 15th of this month.

Apologize for not updating this thread - I was waiting for any significant news to post.

-MediocreFred.

[MediocreFred]

Just an update...

No joy yet. Last week, going by the recommendation of the folks in NJ, they got a brand new MINI CVT and started replacing parts one by one to see if it would fix it. Not sure which ones or how many parts they attempted swapping, but, the problem remains. The next step is to replace the "intake manifold". It was ordered earlier this week and will be put in my MINI mid next week.

If that doesn't fix it, the next swap may be the transmission - don't know yet.

Will update this next week.

-MediocreFred.

[MediocreFred]

Another update...

The replacement of the intake manifold pressure sensors seemed to work, but, didn't and caused the "Check Engine Soon" light to come on. Went back in; tech replaced the fuel injectors and that took care of the Check Engine Soon light. However, the engine fluttering remains and is actually a tad worse than before.

Looks like my service advisor is running out of options - as a last resort, they are getting a specialist in (not sure from where) tomorrow to take a last stab at the problem and to discuss "other alternatives" and "where do we go from here" with me.

Not sure what this means; will know tomorrow and will update this thread.

Thanks.

[MediocreFred]

OK. This is interesting (assuming anybody is still reading this thread). Last Friday, my Service Advisor said that she had a discussion with the Engineer (who flew in from elsewhere) and the technician, they went through my file and decided that since they have been unable to fix the issue after a number of attempts, my MINI qualified for a re-purchase!

So, the managers at my dealership are currently working out the details of the re-purchase and are preparing the appropriate documents and will get back to me some time this week.

My Service Advisor wasn't familiar with the financial details of the "re-purchase", but, said that she had seen a couple of other MINI owners go through the "re-purchase" process and at the end of it all, they seemd happy with the "arrangement" - whatever that was.

Apparently, if I had purchased my MINI in this state, I could've qualified for the Lemon law; however, since I purchased it from an out-of-state dealer, the lemon law wouldn't apply.

So, hope to hear from my dealership by the end of this week. If any of you has been in this situation, can you please tell me what I can expect in terms of the "re-purchase"? My MINI is a 2005 model that I got in October 2004. It has around 13K miles on it. I am a little concerned about how the "re-purchase" will deal with dealer installed options like window tints and new tires that I had put on.

Going forward, I am considering getting an MCSA since, MINI is dropping the CVT from the 2007 model year. I am assuming that being a traditional automatic, the transmission in the MCSA will be more reliable (more readily maintainable by MINI's technicians). I love the CVT (especially its turbine smooth acceleration and the fantastic engine braking in SD - to a point where I rarely use the brakes during my daily commute), but, don't have the faith in it to own it outside its warranty period - so, if I get a new MC CVT now, I would have to sell it within three years, but, with the MCSA, I am hoping that it will be more reliable. Don;t know.

Although my Service Advisor has said that Mini USA cares a lot about keeping customers happy and will go out of their way to keep a customer satisfied, I can't help but feel that I will be taking a financial hit with this "re-purchase". When I first heard about it, I thought it was so cool that they would take this defective car and replace it with a brand new one; however, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it is very unlikely that they will compensate me for things like the Window tint shipping charges from Ohio to Oregon ($1200), Toyo Proxes 4 tires and an $800 alarm system (of which close to $400 was for the labor that included replacing the toggle panel that didn't have the rear fog light switch with one that did and wiring the alarm led to the led at the end of that toggle switch and making it the switch to disable the alarm).

I am sure most of my questions will be answered later this week; in the mean time, if any of you has been through a re-purchase, I'd love to hear your story.

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[nonsequitur]

Of course we still read your work! For everyone subscribed, MINI2 notifies rapidly.

Just for the record, you're working with one of the best dealership service departments in the country (I think). We want to hear about what happens.

Hey, I'm going to be at PIR on March 4th with the Audi Club Northwest. You should pop over to shake hands.

[MediocreFred]

Hey nonsequitur,

Thanks for the heads up. From my own experience and from what I've heard from a few others, the service department at Rasmussen is top notch and I have nothing but praise for Ann, the Service Advisor. She has always been ultra-accomodating, very professional and goes out of her way to make things work. I am really impressed with her and hope she stays on for my next MINI.

Shall try to make it to the PIR on the 4th. What would be a good time to meet you there and will yours be the only Indi-Blue MC there? If I still have my MINI until then, it's a Yellow and White MC with checkered mirror caps.

Shall update this thread when I hear more from my dealer.

Thanks,
MediocreFred.

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by MediocreFred

From my own experience and from what I've heard from a few others, the service department at Rasmussen is top notch and I have nothing but praise for Ann, the Service Advisor. She has always been ultra-accomodating, very professional and goes out of her way to make things work. I am really impressed with her and hope she stays on for my next MINI.

Could not have said it better.

Quote: Originally Posted by MediocreFred

Shall try to make it to the PIR on the 4th. What would be a good time to meet you there and will yours be the only Indi-Blue MC there?

We kick off the day at 7:30am for Tech, 8:30am for Driver's Meeting, first run group at 9:00am. I'm instructing from the right seat, and driving in the Instructor's run group. Schedule has not been set yet. Bring a helmet if you have one.

Ours will be the only Indi Blue/Black MINI Cooper CVT among the big and powerful German machines. I think I'm going to run street tires. But, it's Light...

[MediocreFred]

To put his thread to rest, here is the final bit.

The dealer (and MINI USA) offered to re-purchase my MINI and suggested that if I would be replacing it with another MINI, it would make the process easier. I specd out an MCSa, went in for an appraisal of my current MINI and got a very reasonable offer the next day. I have around 17K miles and will be paying just a shade over ten cents a mile. Would've been a sweeter deal if I hadn't originally paid to have my MINI shipped from Ohio.

Moving on, I was not too keen on a CR/W MCSa that they currently had available, or, the PW/B one that's enroute. Fell in love with the SB/S color combination, ordered it and will be getting it sometime in May.

The icing on the cake is that they've let me drive my current MINI until the new one arrives for no additional charge. I am really impressed that they agreed to this. If they hadn't I'd have been forced to pick up the only MCSa that they had available - nothing against the CR/W combo, but, it had options that I didn't care for.

I test drove and MCSa and was thoroughly impressed by the additional power and the smoothness of the transmission. Most noticably, moving from a standstill up an incline is really snappy - even in the D and SD modes. With the CVT, even SD was a little slow - had to wait about three seconds with the gas pedal jammed in for it to spool up and then take off. None of that in the MCSa. The throttle and the transmission felt a lot more responsive with no noticable lags at all. The one feature of the CVT which I loved but, won't have with the MCSa is the engine braking especially in SD mode. The MSCa feels more like a regular automatic and I couldn;t really tell the difference between D and SD modes while coasting - the difference is obviously evident while accelerating, but, while coasting at say, 60mph, it seemed to behave just like any other automatic in both D and SD modes.(as opposed to the CVT where there is considerable engine braking in SD mode and not so much in D mode.)

Overall, I was very impressed with the MCSa and while I love the CVT and can't stop being amazed at the technology behind it, I would like to believe that it is reliable as well. I am sure there are many many CVTs that are working just fine (and most people post only their negative experiences), but, the fact that MINI is moving away from it (no more CVTs starting next year) concerns me. Also, from what little I've seen, the CVT transmission is like a black box - if it misbehaves, they just replace it. While this may not be true, I am led to believe that not many technicians are trained in fixing the trannys. With a conventional automatic, I am guessing once again that since they are more prevalent, there will be people (both at MINI and elsewhere) who can fix them.

Looking forward to my new MCSa (and driving ultra-defensively in my MINI until then - since I've been told that any damage/accident would cause MINI to re-evaluate its re-purchace price).

Thanks,
MediocreFred.