[Caypay]

First, apologies for cross postings – I just want to make sure that everyone sees this.

About 2 weeks ago, my 04 MC with CVT failed. No warning, nothing. The solution to my problem is that my entire transmission needs to be replaced, at a cost of $10,000.

As I have been reading, I am finding that this is not a common problem, but not an uncommon one either. I have done thread searches, and read several stories from other owners, but am sure that I missed a few.

I am also talking to MINIUSA, and exploring other options, to get the cost down on repairs. I would like to know, besides the few I read, how many other owners have had similar problems. Hopefully, if I can present a large enough list to MINI, they will cut the cost greatly on my repair and any other owner’s repair in the future.

So, if you have had to have your CVT transmission replaced, please post on this thread, and please let me know what the ultimate outcome was with your CVT (replacement, new MINI, sold the car, costs covered or discounts offered).

[Caypay]

Sorry, I had to post twice to add the links:

Also, if you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

If you would like to read the full story, or updates on previous threads, please follow use these addresses:

Metroplex MINI Forums - My MINI died on the highway

MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - My MINI died on the highway

http://www.mini2.com/forum/cvt-autom...failure-5.html

Thanx!! And Happy Motoring!!

[AprilWhine]

Sorry, and good luck on getting it fixed. The CVT doesn't seem to be as robust as the Aisen.

Edited to add:

I saw on NAM that you did not have your fluid changed at the dealer at the recommended interval. That decision probably killed any good will from the dealer or MINIUSA. You also posted a picture of you tracking the car, that also voids the warrenty. Looks like it is your car to fix or replace now.

[Caypay]

Quote: Originally Posted by AprilWhine (original)

Sorry, and good luck on getting it fixed. The CVT doesn't seem to be as robust as the Aisen.

Edited to add:

I saw on NAM that you did not have your fluid changed at the dealer at the recommended interval. That decision probably killed any good will from the dealer or MINIUSA. You also posted a picture of you tracking the car, that also voids the warrenty. Looks like it is your car to fix or replace now.

If you read further on NAM, then you will find that I did have my fluid changed at the recommened interval. The dealer has done all service on my MINI -- scheduled and non scheduled.

The pic of my tracking the car, was actually a DE that MINIUSA sponsored -- so no, it did not void my warrenty; the paperwork and waivers that went with that DE specifically say that. It was also taken within the 1st year of my having my MINI. The 70K plus miles however, did void the warrenty.

[MiniService]

Your dealer must have a serious mark up at 10000 to repalace the trans, we sell the trans for 4800 i believe and that is including core, then 11.4 hours at 105 an hour, some small other items nothing major and your looking roughly 6000, at 70k goodwill is probaly not an option as mini generaly says no good will afterr 60k

[Caypay]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniService (original)

Your dealer must have a serious mark up at 10000 to repalace the trans, we sell the trans for 4800 i believe and that is including core, then 11.4 hours at 105 an hour, some small other items nothing major and your looking roughly 6000, at 70k goodwill is probaly not an option as mini generaly says no good will afterr 60k

I think it has to do with the whole supple and demand thing. Your $4800 is more like what other dealers have said, but I think mark us is the key issue here. If you are in the southren region -- send me a PM so we can see what we can do.

[Caypay]

Sorry for the long over due update, but, with the holidays started, I have been hella busy and, to be honest, this issue just got some sort of closure. At least for the time being.

As of right now, my MINI is at home, but not working. Via phone tag with lots of people, MoD and MINIUSA decided that they would bring the price of repairs down to around $4400. That doesn’t include taxes, or if they find anything else wrong with it. While that’s half of the original cost, which is very nice, that still doesn’t help the fact that I don’t have that kinda cash, so unfortunately, repairs will just have to wait till I do.

Don’t even let me get started on how much that sucks!

And, while $4400 is still kind of pricey, it is the best deal that anyone can offer. I called several transmission specialists in the area, and they all said the same thing – replace it. Because MINI uses what is called a ZF CVT Transmission, and since it is relatively new in the auto market, no one repairs it, everyone replaces it (there has only been one person in California that has repaired his; he did it as a hobby, and it took him a month). MINI is the only company that even imports it to the US. The part itself starts around $5200, with a reman starting at $4600. Salvaged, or used ones are hard to find, and if you can find them, the price still starts at $3200, or $5000 for a fully functioning one. And, because these are salvaged parts, there is no telling when or where they will break, if ever again. And once you add in labor, it’s really not that much a great deal after all.

Since I now have a lot of down time, ya know, the whole no car thing, and I was playing phone tag with tons of people, I did do a little research on the whole MINI CVT tranny issue. What I found was pretty surprising.

From reading tons of threads online on many forums, and consumer reports, and various other sources, I have found that there are many CVT owners that have had tranny problems. At least 45 other MINI owners have had tranny problems that are similar to mine (randomly broke with no warning), and about between 100-200 CVT owners that have had other problems in which their CVT had to be replaced. While that number may seem small, please note that these reported incidents are only within the online MINI community. With 350,000 plus MINI sold, I know that not everyone who is a MINI owner is active or participates at all in the MINI community, so it is reasonable to believe that there are more CVT owners that have problems, but that information is not available to me online. My best gestimate is that about 5% of MINI owners have some sort of tranny failure, but that covers every type of tranny failure, and that number could be grossly out of proportion (I’m not a mathematician by any means, so don’t hold this number against me). It is based on the number of reports I read, compared to members of online forums, worldwide MINI owners, and consideration for an overlap. As to people that have had my type of issue, I don’t know, it could be limited to the 45 I found, but I highly doubt it.

Anyway, the first reported case of a CVT randomly self destructing like mine, was last November. It was an ‘05 CVT with 74,000 plus miles on it. Their dealer quoted them about $7000 for repairs, and after all was said and done, MINIUSA and their dealer picked up the parts cost and charged the owner only $2600 for labor.

Since then, the other reports I have found have covered all model years, and happened just out of the 50,000 mile warranty. Most CVT failures were around 65,000 miles and 80,000 miles with a few in the 100,000 plus category. Also, most of these reported were in the past year, June and July being the worst months, and MINIUSA and their MINI dealers seemed to either pick up parts costs, or like me, cover half the price. The difference in price break is, as I understand it, decided by Regional Service Managers, or Head Service Managers of a particular MINI Dealer.

There are a few CVTs that failed within the warranty period, and MINI replaced them for free, but that happened to a VERY few CVTs. And, those that were replaced within the warranty period, had other tranny issues and some warning signs. There are also reports of MINIs with a tranny problem that have had to have 2 tranny replacements. I do no know exactly how much, if any, MINI footed the bill for, if any.

It is rumored (please note the word RUMORED) that because of the CVT failure problems, MINI is replacing the CVT with a standard automatic transmission unit in the new ‘07s. Now, it is true that MINI is no longer using the ZF CVT Transmissions in the ‘07s, and is using a more standard, widely tested, type of auto transmission, but they have not publicly said why. They also will not release any type of numbers or statistics about the subject to the public. However, most media on the subject does seem to point to the CVT failure rate worldwide as the reason to the switch.

Now, if you are in my position, which I hope you aren’t, then what do you do? I have gotten this question a lot in the last few weeks, so here’s what I recommend:
1. Don’t freak out.

2. Call MINIUSA and see what they can do for you.
Don’t take this as being whiney or trying to get something for free. Just call and ask. The worst they could say is no. I have been talking to MINIUSA and MoD about this all month, and there have been no harsh words, no threats made, and no major agitations (except for the fact that this really sux!!). Anything that was said to me that was negative came from outside parties. MINIUSA is really nice, and they will try to help you.

3. Call other mechanics and utilize all other sources. (Even other MINI Dealers)
I called all transmission specialists in the area, and researched a lot. I found cars that used similar types of transmissions (some Hondas, some Audis, newer Nissans, newer Toyota Hybirds, some Mercedes, and late model Volvos) and called shops that specialize in fixing them. They all told me the same thing, to replace it because no one can fix it, but you may get a better rate or a better deal than having MINI fix it. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for me, but even talking to them helped out a lot.

Once you have done this, then make your decision as to weather or not you want to fix your MINI, or you want to fix in and sell it, sell it as is, whatever.

As to why this happened, the answer is pretty simple, they don’t know. As a matter of fact, if they are even to tell why it happens, then it would be when they pull the old tranny out and take it apart. However, most likely, they will not be able to tell exactly what caused it. This also seems to be a common thread among CVT owners.

I can tell you what didn’t cause it:

My high mileage – even MINI says that a tranny shouldn’t fail at 70K. And, expecting more than 70K on an automatic is not “ridiculous.”

The way I drive – while I do go on “spirited” drives, my car is NOT considered “abused” by MINI. This is also a fact that they are aware of.

My accident a year ago – any damage done would have shown up long ago, and most likely would not have been the problem I have now. MINI and several other mechanics agree on this point.

The fact that my MINI has been on a track – again, something MINI is very aware of, and tells me that one time did not do any damage, or “abuse” my car.

That apparently I’m “obliviously stupid” and “don’t know how to drive” – get real. I’ve probably have driven more miles that most people who said this, and no, MINI even says that’s not the issue.

That I don’t take care of my MINI – not true whatsoever. My MINI is/was well taken care of, the fluids have all been changed correctly, on a regular or scheduled basis, and there were no signs that anything was wrong. MINI does all my service, except for the last oil change and break repair, that was done by qualified mechanics that are experienced with MINIs.



Anyway, that’s the update, and I hope that all this information helps those that are in a similar position. Hopefully I’ll be back on the road soon.

[Sejanus]

Thanks for the informative post and good luck in getting back on the road.

[RedBackFur]

My 2002 MINI CVT Cooper, (May 2002 build) really bit the dust last Friday. I was turning a corner, heard a loud clunk and snap, and the engine revved, no power.

I had it towed to San Francisco MINI. Turns out the CVT Belt Snapped, and took the entire transmission with it. The dealer said that MINI Corporate will not supply any "good will money" toward the repair. Even with discounts, they dealer is giving me, it will still cost about $7000.00 to replace my transmission.

I haven't read MINI boards in quite a while. Would love to know the buzz about possible inferior transaxles on CVTs. I will be calling MINI myself about this. I have had EVERY SINGLE maintenance done on this car by the MINI dealerships. I have lived through the many BUGS of the 2002 Coopers. But this is rather outrageous, don't you think??

[Paul]

Ouch! $7000!

What kind of mileage have you done?

[RedBackFur]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Ouch! $7000!

What kind of mileage have you done?

That milage was in my sig line: It died at 89,500 miles.

[Sejanus]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedBackFur (original)

My 2002 MINI CVT Cooper, (May 2002 build) really bit the dust last Friday. I was turning a corner, heard a loud clunk and snap, and the engine revved, no power.

I had it towed to San Francisco MINI. Turns out the CVT Belt Snapped, and took the entire transmission with it. The dealer said that MINI Corporate will not supply any "good will money" toward the repair. Even with discounts, they dealer is giving me, it will still cost about $7000.00 to replace my transmission.

I haven't read MINI boards in quite a while. Would love to know the buzz about possible inferior transaxles on CVTs. I will be calling MINI myself about this. I have had EVERY SINGLE maintenance done on this car by the MINI dealerships. I have lived through the many BUGS of the 2002 Coopers. But this is rather outrageous, don't you think??

I remember meeting you at some of the earliest MINI runs in the Bay Area. Sorry to hear about the CVT failure, as I recall you had other significant faults early on as well. We've got several threads here on this issue and a number of people who have reported similar failures with similar repair bills. Some have had some success in getting a price reduction from MINI. Some of us have been trying to keep track in one thread of as many CVTs as we can to see what kind of failure rate, if any we experience. Just the fact that the issue has been common enough to inspire the attempt probably indicates that there is a problem with the CVT system's durability.

[mini_macky]

i really should be worried about this since i use my Mini on the track & slalom

[MINIRANDOLPH]

On a positive note. I just sold my 2003 Cooper CVT with 64000 miles on it. I had it almost exactly 4 years and never had any problems with it except for the ubiquitous multi windshield replacements and a new battery in March after a week of sub freezing weather. I just received my new R56 S automatic and if my new car is as trouble free as my 03 I wil be quite pleased.

[RedBackFur]

Yea, I did my best to get this reduced, but alas, I have paid for it. The hard part now, is that I sort of don't trust my MINI for long trips anymore. Maybe consider that 90,000 miles is the twilight years of this model? Sure, early adopters of a new model, I'm sure there are improvements over the years. Will my next Vehicle be a MINI? I'm not sure. I do like reliability. I may end up with a Honda or Toyota. Gets kinda expensive getting new cars ever 5 years.

[MINIMANIAUK]

We can rebuild the CVT transmissions,for a reasonable price ,the shipping costs though are very high to the US,and we would require the old unit back ,so there are 2 lots of shipping.
It is something that I am trying to resolve to offer a reasonably priced replacement unit for the U.S - shipping cost is the problem as when crated the size and weight are quite large!!
We did send a CVT unit to the middle East and the shipping was twice the rebuild cost!!!
still the customer was happy as it was $000,s cheaper than a local dealer
Core units are also hard to find in the UK as the CVT was not such a popular option,and the dealers get all the removed units and scrap them.
The CVT tranny tend to have the same internal failures but as it cannot be determined until it is stripped, the rebuild cost varies ,but certainly a lot cheaper than what is currently available in the US.
Please PM me and I will try to help out if I can, $7000-$10000 is a bit of a hard pill to swallow and I am sure we can reduce that by a lot.
$4500 for a used unit is also very pricey ,given that it has an unknown lifespan,and internal condition
regards Adam
Mini Mania

[Mustang7302]

Our 2004 CVT Cooper's transmission gave out, and it's currently at the dealer waiting for a repair quote. I am certainly not happy about this, especially when seeing the number of failed units.

[joyfulboy]

Hello All:

Long time lurker; first time poster here.

Add us to the list of CVT owners who are in need of a new transmission to the tune of $8000.

About 10 days ago, our 2003 Cooper (80K miles) started making a strange noise when in forward motion only (noise disappeared entirely when at stand-still or in reverse). All else seemed well--no warning lights, no shifting problems, no acceleration issues, nothing. So although we were troubled by the new sound coming from somewhere under the hood, we took the car into Princeton Mini with confidence that all could be made well.

3 hours later (and $120 poorer), the service manager called us to tell us we needed a new tranny; estimated cost (minimum): $7500!!!! I'm sure you can understand our initial sense of shock, to put it mildy, given that we have taken excellent care of this vehicle and have driven it without any major incident or trauma for more than 4 years. That initial sense of shock has given way to absolute outrage, however, upon learning that so many CVT owners seem to be having transmission issues around or soon after the 70K mark.

I have some specific questions/concerns about the situation, to which I haven't turned up answers in my searches, and I would greatly appreciate and specific information that others may have gained through their own unfortunate CVT situations. Obviously, I'd like to be armed with as much knowledge as possible as I discuss the situation with MiniUSA, and hopefully work toward some sort of fair resolution with them:

1.) Our CVT transmission has not "failed" per se. As noted above, except for the admittedly very worrisome sound coming from under the hood, we are experiencing no problems with vehicle performance on any level. When we asked for a copy of the diagnostic tests that they had performed to determine our need for a new tranny (obviously, we're getting a second opinion, and thought the results of these tests would be informative for our regular mechanic), the service manager at Princeton Mini could NOT produce anything, and finally admitted under pressure that all they had done (for $121, mind you) was to "listen" to the car--nothing was opened up, nothing was examined. Adding insult to injury, when we asked him what, exactly, they "heard"--that is, what EXACTLY the problem IS that makes us need a new transmission (a broken belt? a loose bearing? a little gremlin running around destroying things???), they had no answers, or even informed guesses for that matter. Apparently, they just heard the sound of $8000 coming their way! Obviously, we do not find such an exceptionally vague and imprecise "diagnosis" acceptable on ANY level, and we are wondering if anyone else has experienced similar treatment, and/or if anyone knows this dealership has violated any MiniUSA policies/procedures in delivering such a dire prognosis to our baby without being able to back it up with anything specific?

2.) Does anyone have any specific advise for effective strategies toward communicating with MiniUSA and/or ensuring the most favorable treatment from them? I presently feel a bit stymied in my relations with them. I want to play "nice" for as long as possible, despite our extreme anger and frustration with what seems to be a fairly well-known design flaw, but we're not really moving forward at present. I check in with my CSR daily (and if she's not available--which is fairly often--I check in with another CSR on the status of our case), but all they can tell me is that my case has been "escalated," that the "Market Team" is working on it, and that they hope to have an answer "tomorrow." Meanwhile, I am paying for a rental car for each day that passes without progress, and we are stuck in a state of frustrated limbo. Obviously, I don't feel like we can appeal to the dealer to intercede on our behalf, given that they treated us so shabbily to begin with. Any other tips for getting MiniUSA to be a bit more responsive and expedient would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to ramble; thanks for reading my post (if you've made it thus far), and thanks in advance for any information, tips, advice, etc.

David

[ontheroadagain]

I'm stunned at what you've written about the "diagnosis" that was not performed at your dealership.

Please continue to apprise us of what happens next, and I do hope that you'll get some helpful posts on here as the day wears on. Hang in there!

[joyfulboy]

thanks for your kind words, ontheroadagain.

we, too, were absolutely floored by the dealer's lack of professionalism and courtesy. i'm afraid, though, that i might be working against my own best interests in complaining too loudly about them at this point. (as i understand it, miniusa consults very closely with the service department of the dealer as they are determining what, if anything, they'll do for the customer.)

anyway, very little progress to report here. 9 days of promises, and 3 customer relations representatives later, we're still in a very frustrated limbo. and the more i uncover about the extent of this CVT problem, the more angry i grow at the seeming lack of corporate concern.

sigh...it was only two weeks ago that i was telling everyone who asked that this was the best car i've ever owned...