[Basil]

Excellent, another SMG advocate.

hopefully those propellor chaps are looking in, and taking notes.

[Bad Manners]

Quote:

Originally posted by Frog
But a Sequential, clutchless system would really interest me. The problem I have with trying to learn manual isn't the shifting itself, but coordination with the clutch... Tried to learn on my Father in Law's Eclipse, but just couldn't get the knack of heel toeing the clutch with the gas petal. Knowing WHEN to shift wasn't a problem.

We all learnt sometime! I remember, at age of 17, bunny hopping a motorbike round a car park about 50 yards from the motorcycle dealer just after I bought it - and all the way home, and for the next couple of weeks too!

When I learnt to drive a car, it was with an instructor, and it only took a few hours to become proficient pulling away and changing up and down through the gears. If you consider that I was also learning how to drive a car in traffic at the same time, and that you already know how to do that bit, it really won't take you too long if you put your mind to it and invest a little time.

The rewards of a manual gearbox far outweigh its drawbacks, especially if you consider the range of vehicles that open up before you when you have the manual box skills, not forgetting the Cooper S!

[cooper4us]

Yeah, manuals are fun, rewarding and all that, but still for everyday city traffic I would love to either have a nice CVT or SMG transmission in a Cooper 'S'.

My wife can't and won't drive a stick shift car, period. This is one of the main reasons that deters me from getting a current day MCS in the near future. I have been driving stick shift cars for almost 15 years, so for me personally is not a problem. But when most of my daily driving is made up of congested and slow riding speed limits, why do I want to hassle with a six speed gearbox and a clutch pedal? The novelty wears pretty fast.

A lot of "Purists" in this site openly criticize the performance of the Copper CVT. I, on the other hand, find it to be a fantastic compromise as it gives pretty good performance from the get go, urban driving comfort, excellent power and gives the added benefit of 2 additional programs: Sport Mode (RPM's are kept constant to ensure optimal torque and power delivery all speeds) and Steptronic which allows for "6-speed" gearshift changing without having to deal with a clutch pedal. Best of all in the CVT you can pick your engine's RPM and then change from normal automatic mode to SM or Steptronic modes on the fly allowing for some pretty strong aceleration at the flick of the gear shift changer....it is simply amazing when you discover the things the CVT is capable of doing.

A sequential Clutchless gear system would be yet another strong selling point for us if ever offered in the MCS. My wife could enjoy a high perfomance MCS, make her own gear changes from the steering wheel ( a la Ferrari "Enzo") and never have to worry about coordinating clutch pedal movement or worrying making a mistake by releasing the clutch too fast or stalling the car from 1st gear. Durability of transmission components should also be longer than those of a typical manual gearbox.

Another great feature of the CVT in steptronic mode is that if you shift to a gear that would cause overreving the engine to red line, (read: engine damage) the computer won't allow you to do so.


Message to MINI: Make a MCS with either a CVT or SMG gearbox for those of us that don't want to deal with the hassles and compromises of a clutch pedal.

MINIUSA: Suggest MINI/BMW to bring a MCS automatic stateside by 2004!!!!!

[Mini CVT 4me]

Hi Bad Manners
I agree with everthing you say, the CVT and Supercharger combo is growing on me. In fact wouldn't need to have full "S" specs, just a nice 150 HP supercharger option, with stealth looks ( lots of chrome, typical city car with pastel color , maybe flower pod like the beetle?!!)
You say:
[quote]Originally posted by Bad Manners
Nice idea though, since CVT in stepless mode can tap into an engine's power band and keep making ininitely small adjustments to the gear ratio to keep it there.
So, launch could be: select sports mode, jab foot on throttle. CVT gearbox selects a low ratio, while it feathers the regular plate clutch 'til the wheels catch up with engine speed. Engine revs rise to say 6,000rpm at 30mph, and, and stay glued at a point somewhere between 6,000 and 8,000 for maybe 40 seconds while the CVT continuously adjusts the steel belt ratio all the way to the high ratio end.
UNQUOTE

I think you're right on! But now just imagine how the supercharger can kick in, with no lag. And rather than changing RPM, your CVT justs keeps adjusting at warp speed!!!So now your 40 seconds might drop to 15, or 10 ..!

Result: constant tone roar of the engine all the way up to top speed. ( but leaving everyone in the dust in the process.. i could get used to the strange engine noise then!)

Finally, technology might just move fast enough. Remember when belt drive was just for mopeds..? Then Harley came along, everyone laughed.. Anyone still laughing today?

Hope someone at mini will at least consider how cool this coud be,
cheers!!

[AZMRSi]

For the person who said that the automatic redlines at 5500, you would be incorect. The cooper will shift after 5500 rpm, or at least all the ones that I have driven do. Also

[Bad Manners]

Quote:

Originally posted by AZMRSi
For the person who said that the automatic redlines at 5500, you would be incorect. The cooper will shift after 5500 rpm, or at least all the ones that I have driven do. Also

It was me who said the CVT redlines at 5500rpm! My bad!

After reading another post in the Cooper forum on the Cooper CVT, it seems that the 5500rpm marker on the tacho would really be a yellow line, and by playing with the different modes of the CVT box, it can be persuaded to change as late as 6,000 rpm. It's worth reading coz they're talking about wringing the best performance out of the autobox.

[uua]

late entry to this thread.

To the san fransisco dweller who can't avoid rollback with a manual gearbox...that is what the handbrake is for. And its not called an emergency brake. You feather off the handbrake whilst engaging the clutch. In countries that test driving skills when licencing, rather than knowledge of road signs, rollback will fail you the exam. it is tested for.

as for the person who wants to heal toe the clutch and accelerator, don't you find the brake pedal getting in the way, or do you have an extremely wide and flexible foot.


automatic transmissions have their places...mini cooper s's aren't one of them

my sour 0.02.

[Sejanus]

Quote:

Originally posted by uua
late entry to this thread.

To the san fransisco dweller who can't avoid rollback with a manual gearbox...that is what the handbrake is for. And its not called an emergency brake. You feather off the handbrake whilst engaging the clutch. In countries that test driving skills when licencing, rather than knowledge of road signs, rollback will fail you the exam. it is tested for.

I'm not the one doing it, I'm the one watching all the folks in front of me do it and they are legion. Besides my point was simply that is much easier to handle such hills with a CVT or automatic, not that it wasn't possible in manual.

Quote:

Originally posted by uua

automatic transmissions have their places...mini cooper s's aren't one of them
my sour 0.02.

Overpriced I think.

[cooper4us]

Quote:

Originally posted by uua


automatic transmissions have their places...mini cooper s's aren't one of them

my sour 0.02.

What a bunch of B.S.!

[uua]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sejanus


I'm not the one doing it, I'm the one watching all the folks in front of me do it and they are legion. Besides my point was simply that is much easier to handle such hills with a CVT or automatic, not that it wasn't possible in manual.



Overpriced I think.

I'm sorry, that was 0.02 canadian$. That is $0.0128 USD. Pretty much one Bit .

I could go on and on, but I think that we know each other's positions. Please feel free to visit me if you make it to the north west coast, and we'll thrash that bad gearbox out of my car. -uu

[uua]

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper4us


What a bunch of B.S.!

Such an invitation to a flamewar. Doesn't really matter. automatic cooper s = tainted love.

bye, -uu

[cjay]

Have you guys ever considered that some people who would love a Cooper S may not be able to drive a manual due to injury. I broke my elbow in 15 places which means I can only drive a S for about 10 minutes If and when they put out a CVT S I want one! If you don't like the idea don't buy one!

[LordWinslow]

Quote:

Originally posted by cjay
Have you guys ever considered that some people who would love a Cooper S may not be able to drive a manual due to injury. I broke my elbow in 15 places which means I can only drive a S for about 10 minutes If and when they put out a CVT S I want one! If you don't like the idea don't buy one!

I agree with you 100%

My left leg is all screwed up, so driving a manual is out of the question. I have a Cooper CVT and love it, but I know I would like an "S" with a CVT or something clutchless.

[LordWinslow]

Quote:

Originally posted by cjay
Have you guys ever considered that some people who would love a Cooper S may not be able to drive a manual due to injury. I broke my elbow in 15 places which means I can only drive a S for about 10 minutes If and when they put out a CVT S I want one! If you don't like the idea don't buy one!

I agree with you 100%

My left leg is all screwed up, so driving a manual is out of the question. I have a Cooper CVT and love it, but I know I would like an "S" with a CVT or something clutchless.

[Bonjour]

i drove an automatic Golf VR6 once. In a word "frustrating". All that power and you just can't really harness it.

[Spy Car]

I think removing the 6 speed manual transmission from the MCS would mean stripping the car of one of its greatest features (maybe even its greatest feature).

I can see why "purists" get mad, you're talking about ruining an already perfect automobile.

[Sejanus]

Only if they stopped producing the 6 speed MCS.

[jrrhwang81]

I just learned to drive stick shift. Talk about a whole new world!! Though I have to say, my friend's prelude SH has a auto stick which looks like a whole pile of fun. Also, this is redundant and just adds bulk to the thread, but from my very limited knowledge, Lexus pretty much gave up on stick shift altogether because in terms of current technology for cars with a whole lot of room (like a lexus sedan), an auto can produce better, faster shifts, more gas mileage, less loss from crank to wheels, and god knows what else. That said, I friggin love manual! Being stuck in a "sporty" car (02 celica gt, with factory body kit and all) with a automatic that is simply inadequate just about kills me everytime I want to take some beautiful turn in my own, unexperienced, crazy and unnecessary way. Anyways, my two cents to this debate that somehow managed to reach philosophical proportions, while staying amusing and not abusive (way to go!):
I've noticed that a point in the series of arguments has been this: "you wanting/not wanting something to happen impinges on my wanting/not wanting something to happen, so politely I say, you are wrong." Obviously, heavily paraphrased and formulated, but it'll do. But opinions are opinions are opinions. That's all. Nothing will be helped by stating that someone's opinions are wrong, only a rebuttal will. For whoever the post was meant to be read by, if you're trying to convince them of your correctness, pointing out that the other is wrong or incorrect is ineffective; proving it is. So... now let me add that I think I'm probably the only one here who let it get philosophical (if you can even call it that... I'm such an idiot!). And it probably, like I warned, is pointless and "ineffective", but to be fair, I did say that this will probably be redundant! So why do I keep rambling on? I been meaning to somehow put up a real post in an effort to try to start become a part of the mini community and also because I've been sitting here, not being able to sleep because all I've been doing is obsessing over a mini cooper S that wont be mine for another 3 months, depending on whether I'll be able to get it by then or no. God help me, I'm so impatient and just plain antsy.
So, in conclusion, I am wordy and childish. Thank you!
-Jinu

[elmadi]

I had been reading a lot your posts & I am glad how you defende our side as CVT owners. I agree with you 100%.

Just to add my 2 cents: purists should embrace the "changes" as long it benefits everybody. Look at the progress of F1 cars nowadays. Just my humble opinion.

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper4us
Yeah, manuals are fun, rewarding and all that, but still for everyday city traffic I would love to either have a nice CVT or SMG transmission in a Cooper 'S'.

My wife can't and won't drive a stick shift car, period. This is one of the main reasons that deters me from getting a current day MCS in the near future. I have been driving stick shift cars for almost 15 years, so for me personally is not a problem. But when most of my daily driving is made up of congested and slow riding speed limits, why do I want to hassle with a six speed gearbox and a clutch pedal? The novelty wears pretty fast.

A lot of "Purists" in this site openly criticize the performance of the Copper CVT. I, on the other hand, find it to be a fantastic compromise as it gives pretty good performance from the get go, urban driving comfort, excellent power and gives the added benefit of 2 additional programs: Sport Mode (RPM's are kept constant to ensure optimal torque and power delivery all speeds) and Steptronic which allows for "6-speed" gearshift changing without having to deal with a clutch pedal. Best of all in the CVT you can pick your engine's RPM and then change from normal automatic mode to SM or Steptronic modes on the fly allowing for some pretty strong aceleration at the flick of the gear shift changer....it is simply amazing when you discover the things the CVT is capable of doing.

A sequential Clutchless gear system would be yet another strong selling point for us if ever offered in the MCS. My wife could enjoy a high perfomance MCS, make her own gear changes from the steering wheel ( a la Ferrari "Enzo") and never have to worry about coordinating clutch pedal movement or worrying making a mistake by releasing the clutch too fast or stalling the car from 1st gear. Durability of transmission components should also be longer than those of a typical manual gearbox.

Another great feature of the CVT in steptronic mode is that if you shift to a gear that would cause overreving the engine to red line, (read: engine damage) the computer won't allow you to do so.


Message to MINI: Make a MCS with either a CVT or SMG gearbox for those of us that don't want to deal with the hassles and compromises of a clutch pedal.

MINIUSA: Suggest MINI/BMW to bring a MCS automatic stateside by 2004!!!!!

[Spy Car]

Quote:

Originally posted by elmadi
I

Just to add my 2 cents: purists should embrace the "changes" as long it benefits everybody. Look at the progress of F1 cars nowadays. Just my humble opinion.

I dunno. This "purist" fears the demise of manually shifted automobiles.

I personally don't care if you can shift faster with F1 style paddles or with some computer controlled shifting gizmo. As far as i'm concerned it's not "driving" unless you are working a clutch and meshing gears.

So I'm glad the MINI S only comes with a beautiful 6 speed manual. Seems there are quite a few kids who are going to learn to drive a stick just so they can have an S, and I see that as a very good thing.

Of all the cars on the road the MINI is among the very select few driver's cars that I feel would be ruined by turning it into an "automatic". I pray the pressures of the market never cause this to happen.