[Vanwall]

I tried that take-off method, now suggested by ZF, back in the summer of '02 right after the break-in on Brooksie was over. I used a series of roads in a huge industrial park area near my house over a number of succesive weekends to experiment with my CVT on actual road conditions, with hills and flats, twisties and straights.

All this was subjective ONLY, and I really never planned it out with a daily shedule or anything, but I did do reps of various techniques that seemed to work so I could compare the seat-of-pants results. It was VERY difficult to ease the throttle pressure close to the shift points and retain the acceleration, regardless of "gear", which led me to believe that constant pressure on the accelerator when using either CVT, SD, or Manual Shift was the only real option.

I hit upon the 1-D-SD flick as a way to use the set programming inherent in the CVT to optimize the RPM shift-point from 1st to the next "gear" up the ladder, without letting up on the accererator. The CVT is a real smart torque sensor, and because the MINI has all the oomph up top of the rev range, I was really wondering how to keep as much as possible of the torque into the next up-shift. Frankly, if this forum didn't exist, I prolly wouldn't have mentioned the flick to anyone except a couple of local CVT lads.

I still feel a careful, constant pressure in SD just B4 the detent is the best take-off, with either the flick, or flooring it past the detent only up in the top of the rev range, with no let-up, is the best way for Brooksie. On the Objective Testing thread, this was pretty much the best result, BTW. I don't see how flooring it off the line and and then dropping the torque value, even if momentarily, will aid acceleration, unless the engine management system has programming for just this eventuality.

I bought this car after test driving a number of MINIs because I liked the "feel", and since it's all subjective in my case, ( I don't plan on autox-ing Brooksie in the near future ), I'll stick with what 37M miles on the clock works best for my roads. ;-)

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[adgrimes]

Hi, Ive been experimenting recently, I havent tried the 1-D-SD acceleration technique, but I do frequently use the SD - past kick down point - then when it hits 5500RPM's, release accelerator to just before kick down point... Although I havent timed it, it certainly feels that the car accelerates quicker using this method than any other method... I will try the 1-D-SD method later today when I go out...

[geraldholt]

Hi all!

I've been reading this thread over the last couple of days (mightly long thread!). I recently test drove a Cooper CVT and as the "motoring advisor" was telling me about the CVT, I did the 1-D-SD flick (from a stop sign). I didn't get it right the first couple of times, but by the end of the test drive, I was getting better. Funny thing is, the "motoring advisor" asked me what I was doing and I told him that I was getting the most from launch that I could. He told me that he didn't think that you could do that and it probably wasn't good for the transmission!

Anyway, I've placed my order (through another dealer) for an Indie Blue, black roof/mirrors, Prem Package, Sport Package, Sport Suspension Plus, Xenon Headlights, and H/K stereo. A call to my dealer stated that my Cooper should arrive by the end of February! I've really picked up some good tips on how to better drive my CVT, I think. However, it is all in theory until my baby gets here.

Originally, I wasn't going to go the "slushbox" route (wanted an 'S') but the wife insisted that I get the CVT so she could drive it as well. I must say that the people here have changed my mind and I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the wife was right. (Don't want to say that too loud for obvious reasons! )

Keep posting folks, people are learning out there!!

[n3nyongmini]

and how is that not good for the tranny?

bah

try doing the 1-D-SD flip at about 5k rpm at first - that way you won't "overshoot it" and land up in the rev-limiter land that saps all the power and makes the torque go away...

Quote: Originally Posted by geraldholt

Hi all!

I've been reading this thread over the last couple of days (mightly long thread!). I recently test drove a Cooper CVT and as the "motoring advisor" was telling me about the CVT, I did the 1-D-SD flick (from a stop sign). I didn't get it right the first couple of times, but by the end of the test drive, I was getting better. Funny thing is, the "motoring advisor" asked me what I was doing and I told him that I was getting the most from launch that I could. He told me that he didn't think that you could do that and it probably wasn't good for the transmission!

Anyway, I've placed my order (through another dealer) for an Indie Blue, black roof/mirrors, Prem Package, Sport Package, Sport Suspension Plus, Xenon Headlights, and H/K stereo. A call to my dealer stated that my Cooper should arrive by the end of February! I've really picked up some good tips on how to better drive my CVT, I think. However, it is all in theory until my baby gets here.

Originally, I wasn't going to go the "slushbox" route (wanted an 'S') but the wife insisted that I get the CVT so she could drive it as well. I must say that the people here have changed my mind and I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the wife was right. (Don't want to say that too loud for obvious reasons! )

Keep posting folks, people are learning out there!!

[Vanwall]

Glad you like the CVT! It's really a cool way to drive, with a lot of options.

Quote: Originally Posted by geraldholt

Hi all!

I've been reading this thread over the last couple of days (mightly long thread!). I recently test drove a Cooper CVT and as the "motoring advisor" was telling me about the CVT, I did the 1-D-SD flick (from a stop sign). I didn't get it right the first couple of times, but by the end of the test drive, I was getting better. Funny thing is, the "motoring advisor" asked me what I was doing and I told him that I was getting the most from launch that I could. He told me that he didn't think that you could do that and it probably wasn't good for the transmission!

Anyway, I've placed my order (through another dealer) for an Indie Blue, black roof/mirrors, Prem Package, Sport Package, Sport Suspension Plus, Xenon Headlights, and H/K stereo. A call to my dealer stated that my Cooper should arrive by the end of February! I've really picked up some good tips on how to better drive my CVT, I think. However, it is all in theory until my baby gets here.

Originally, I wasn't going to go the "slushbox" route (wanted an 'S') but the wife insisted that I get the CVT so she could drive it as well. I must say that the people here have changed my mind and I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the wife was right. (Don't want to say that too loud for obvious reasons! )

Keep posting folks, people are learning out there!!

n3nyongmini has a good idea - practice the flick for a while, and it'll be smooth. I don't see where it would be bad for the tranny. Sounds like an uninformed opinion. Good luck -

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[Sejanus]

Quote: Originally Posted by geraldholt

He told me that he didn't think that you could do that and it probably wasn't good for the transmission!

I doubt he knows. When I test drove a CVT on launch day in March 2002 the salesman didn't even know the sports or steptronic modes existed. Enjoy your MINI!

[geraldholt]

I kinda figured he didn't know what he was talking about!! That's why I went to a different dealer to make my purchase -- I don't reward idiots or liars. The dealer that I did make my purchase from, said that the move is good and won't hurt (just keep the revs under the 4.5k limit during break-in).

[MiniDoug]

A myth - the rev limiter controls things in manual mode

NO it doesn't..... the car will automatically change up... at least mine does!

So NO rev limiter 6000 rpm ish and change.... so there you go!

[nonsequitur]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniDoug

A myth - the rev limiter controls things in manual mode
NO it doesn't..... the car will automatically change up...

I'm sorry that this post sat without comment. We're saying the same thing!

The EMS2000 computer limits the engine to 6000rpm using a combination of retarded spark (first to happen, and near instant response) and fuel (absolute effect).

In Steptronic Manual with enough throttle applied to accelerate through the "gears", the computer will automatically upshift at 6000rpm (1>2, 2>3, 3>4, 4>5, and 5>6) very precisely. Engine is limited to 6000rpm, also called the redline which is now displayed correctly on the tach in v36.0 software.

This redline is not actually an engine-required rpm limit. The input shaft speed maximum of the ecoTronic VT1F CVT is 6000rpm. The engine redline is actually 7000rpm which is used on the 5-speed Cooper or One.

Interestingly, the EMS2000 computer limits the bottom of the rpm range in each "gear" as well. An automatic downshift occurs at 2000rpm for 6>5, 1800rpm for 5>4, 1600rpm for 4>3, and 1400rpm for 3>2. Steptronic 1 must always be manually selected.

No upshift or downshift will occur, even if manually selected, if the resulting engine rpm is outside of these limits set by the computer.

All of these computer-monitored limits are what produce the near bulletproof fun and reliability we enjoy with these cars! It is possible, from the driver's position, to pick the Selection (D, SD, or Steptronic) and the Mode (CVT, or stepped Automatic Transmission simulation) to fit the driving situation exactly.

The computer stays out of the way, in Steptronic, to allow a great deal of manual control if that's what the MINI CVT driver demands. The ZF gearbox holds a gear ratio tenaciously unless either of the rpm limits for that selection are exceeded. It is completely possible to throttle steer the MINI through corners on the track. That's about as "manual" as it gets. Fun factor rising.

[Dooks]

Question for the 1-D-SD. After I hit 4000rpms in 1, and I flick to D, how quickly do I flick back to SD? Do I wait for the revs to go to 4000 again? Just wondering how fast to flick back to SD

[Vanwall]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dooks

Question for the 1-D-SD. After I hit 4000rpms in 1, and I flick to D, how quickly do I flick back to SD? Do I wait for the revs to go to 4000 again? Just wondering how fast to flick back to SD

Right away. You "flick" it in D and right back to SD. Don't wait. Practice makes perfect! It took me about a week to get it just right when I discovered it, but I was trying some other methods as well at the time. According to most of the objective testing, straight SD, carefully controlled, is the fastest way to get to 60 MPH, but I feel the 1-D-SD flick makes a difference as a superior launch tecnique. It is the only way to get a little tire chirp from a dead stop on dry pavement with the CVT! ;-) 'Course that's lost traction, but if you work it right, it'll take off quick! I'm by no means the master at this stuff, but I have fun trying!

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[Spookyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanwall

It is the only way to get a little tire chirp from a dead stop on dry pavement with the CVT! ;-) 'Course that's lost traction, but if you work it right, it'll take off quick! I'm by no means the master at this stuff, but I have fun trying!

Are you using left-foot braking to get a launch chirp? Or just flooring it in 1?

[Dooks]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spookyfish

Are you using left-foot braking to get a launch chirp? Or just flooring it in 1?

I think you shouldn't floor it? But push it to the detent. Apparently detent is only useful after you reach 5000rpm?

[nonsequitur]

The are really three "modes" and several "selections" (as the terms are used by ZF) for the driver to employ for driving situations.

Modes:
CVT-mode is the native behavior of the transmission that operates turbine-smooth using the infinite number of ratios available from the CVT. This is engaged by holding the gas pedal before the resistance point/switch position ("Detent"). The rpm is brought up to appropriate torque for the demand, and held there steady while the transmission does the work.

AT-mode is the virtual simulation of a 6-speed stepped Automatic Transmission at full throttle. It is engaged by pressing the gas pedal past the resistance point to flip the switch "on" for AT-mode. The rpm increases to the 6000 redline in SD where an actual "shift" (jump repositioning of the drive belt) takes place. The programming in D is different than SD, less sharp and a lower shift rpm, under v36.0 than it was previously.

The Detent switch/Kickdown switch/AT-mode switch is physically on the electronic throttle pedal to engage computer programming for these behaviors at any rpm, not just above 5000rpm. There is much more to learn about this programming.

Creep/Crawler mode is below 1600-2000rpm for very low speed forward-drive situations like parking garages at very slight throttle. It is separate programming from CVT, AT, D, SD, or Steptronic, but accessable from any of those modes or selections.

Selections:
The driver Selections are Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, SportDrive, and Steptronic.

[Vanwall]

Quote: Originally Posted by Spookyfish

Are you using left-foot braking to get a launch chirp? Or just flooring it in 1?

I don't floor it - it doesn't accelerate well for that instant just past the detent. Get a feel for where your detent is, and then use that for a baseline. I got a chirp once without left-footing it! - but I'm not sure if it was the pavement or me! HeHe! Actually, left foot braking is still something I'm green at, but much better than B4, and you can get a regular chirp if you use it, but I think I did it once or twice at the most at launch. I don't feel comfortable even doing that with my manual cars - I hate clutch jobs. Have fun!

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[phubear]

Just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone in this thread
...now i've got to go look for a long private road w/out prying eyes.

[nonsequitur]

Consider joining a car club-sponsored track day event in your area or taking a school at one of the tracks. Many have very good programs, and the car clubs are usually welcoming to an interesting car like the MINI. There's special joy in exploring the capabilities of your car in a designed-safer environment, and without concerns that you have purposely bent the regs.

[nonsequitur]

This document just showed up as a download on the MINIUSA.com website as part of the launch pages for the MINI Cooper S MC40 model:

http://www.miniusa.com/crm/main.jsp
- click "Introducing the MINI Cooper S MC40"
- then click "Rallye like a Pro: Download Driving Tips"

This may be the first piece published by MINI on driving technique. You've no doubt seen the "autocross" ads as well, the ones with the paper fold-out cones included.

I tried to Upload the MINIUSA "asphalt_arts.pdf" file with this post here, but it is too large at 2.3Mb for the website to accept. You'll need to go there for youurself with the link above.

[phubear]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

Consider joining a car club-sponsored track day event ....

I've done it, and it IS great fun. However, after going to a few of them; some "S" Drivers get real obnoxious on straight aways regardless of skill level. Perhaps there needs to be CVT only events in the future. Sadly, horsepower is often associated w/ skill & experience.

[Spookyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by nonsequitur

http://www.miniusa.com/crm/main.jsp
- click "Introducing the MINI Cooper S MC40"
- then click "Rallye like a Pro: Download Driving Tips"
.

It's a great read. Nothing in there that's really new for me, but worth a read anyhow.