[nonsequitur]

That's exactly what my young bride said when the new NZO wheels and tires showed up in our driveway: "You are too much!"

But I told her that I just had to participate in the Objective Testing being supported by this wonderful group on MINI2.com, AND the wheels and tires would enhance braking safety as we worked on the Driving Technique she could use on her long-cut to the store!

[nonsequitur]

To borrow some suggestions from another Thread (General, CVTs are slow ...), here are some technique ideas for everyday driving. What do you think? Have you tried these variations?

[quote]Originally posted by gtt19
[b]i've seen a couple of comments about how the CVT is a little sluggish in the low RPM's...this can be true. but, dont forget there are a few differences with this tranny.

when most people drive a regular automatic, they tend to "feather" the gas pedal upon take-off, in order to avoid a head-jerk...in a regular automatic, this is usually necessary to get a smooth take-off. In the MINI...do NOT do this! the tranny is designed to make the take-off smooth FOR YOU...which means if you feather the gas pedal like you would normally; you, AND the car are trying to make the take-off smooth, which does 2 things. 1.amplifies the "feathering" effect, which can make the car jerky and slow, and 2. not allow the RPM's to settle in one place, which slows down the acceleration, and makes it feel sluggish. so, in a CVT, stomp on it! now, i dont mean mash it to the floor like a top-fuel dragster, but press the pedal down at least half-way to the floor right away. this will NOT make the CVT perform like a MCS , but i think you will be more happy with the way it accelerates.

[elmadi]

[quote]Originally posted by johnewald
[b]To borrow some suggestions from another Thread (General, CVTs are slow ...), here are some technique ideas for everyday driving. What do you think? Have you tried these variations?

Quote:

Originally posted by gtt19
i've seen a couple of comments about how the CVT is a little sluggish in the low RPM's...this can be true. but, dont forget there are a few differences with this tranny.

when most people drive a regular automatic, they tend to "feather" the gas pedal upon take-off, in order to avoid a head-jerk...in a regular automatic, this is usually necessary to get a smooth take-off. In the MINI...do NOT do this! the tranny is designed to make the take-off smooth FOR YOU...which means if you feather the gas pedal like you would normally; you, AND the car are trying to make the take-off smooth, which does 2 things. 1.amplifies the "feathering" effect, which can make the car jerky and slow, and 2. not allow the RPM's to settle in one place, which slows down the acceleration, and makes it feel sluggish. so, in a CVT, stomp on it! now, i dont mean mash it to the floor like a top-fuel dragster, but press the pedal down at least half-way to the floor right away. this will NOT make the CVT perform like a MCS , but i think you will be more happy with the way it accelerates.

Thanks "johnewald".....your suggestion I think amke sense.
After driving a auto Civic for 3 years I have this habit of
what you describe "feather....".
Now when I have the CVT I used to do this & yet from time to time I use to "floor" the pedal & the tranny seems run better. I will experiment more this weekend. Thanks again...

[ScooterMan]

Softwared version 33.2, diode change out, and your suggestion make MINI Pearl run sweet!

[PigLick]

I'll have to give that a try, but in my very limited and admittedly uncontrolled testing, it seems like smooth, gradual application of the gas pedal gives me better results with the CVT. Of course not so gradual that you are slowing yourself down, but pushing the pedal just faster than the car is accelerating (if you know what I mean). I don't know if that's what is meant by "feathering" or not...

PigLick

[Spliceit]

While this all sound great, but seeing as my slow driving happens with a car in front of me in traffic, how do you propose I give it some more gas. My complaints are not necessarily off a stop, but while sitting in traffic on LA freeways!

Any suggestions for that?

[quote]Originally posted by johnewald
[b]To borrow some suggestions from another Thread (General, CVTs are slow ...), here are some technique ideas for everyday driving. What do you think? Have you tried these variations?

Quote:

Originally posted by gtt19
i've seen a couple of comments about how the CVT is a little sluggish in the low RPM's...this can be true. but, dont forget there are a few differences with this tranny.

when most people drive a regular automatic, they tend to "feather" the gas pedal upon take-off, in order to avoid a head-jerk...in a regular automatic, this is usually necessary to get a smooth take-off. In the MINI...do NOT do this! the tranny is designed to make the take-off smooth FOR YOU...which means if you feather the gas pedal like you would normally; you, AND the car are trying to make the take-off smooth, which does 2 things. 1.amplifies the "feathering" effect, which can make the car jerky and slow, and 2. not allow the RPM's to settle in one place, which slows down the acceleration, and makes it feel sluggish. so, in a CVT, stomp on it! now, i dont mean mash it to the floor like a top-fuel dragster, but press the pedal down at least half-way to the floor right away. this will NOT make the CVT perform like a MCS , but i think you will be more happy with the way it accelerates.

[nonsequitur]

Three wonderfully fun days in a row on tracks around here. I got the CVT "working" well, so it was huge fun and reinforced that this is a technically-interesting package in the MINI lineup.

Two techniques seemed to work best. I would love some critical questions from you to help me sort this out.

Steptronic was the most fun. After trying all kinds of variations, the most effective for me was to set the car under left-foot braking and bang downshifts to the appropriate "gear" selection for the exit, using throttle to feed in power as the brakes eased after turn-in. The computer does precise upshifts at 6,000rpm with no manual input. More coordinated work under braking on entry, concentrate on steering and throttle on exit. This became a rhythm, more and more enjoyable each lap.

SportDrive was again a surprise. On the last day when we were on Pacific Raceways (formerly Seattle International Raceways, 2.2mi, 9 turn) with a very long front straight, I tried to see which program pulled the best.

This "straight" essentially starts at Turn 8 through various kinks to braking for Turn 2. There is an "instructed lap" video of the track in a BMW. The video "begins" at the downhill entry to Turn 3A: http://www.proformanceraceschool.com/

Using the Steptronic "shifting" technique from the previous days (above), I hit 107mph at the braking point for Turn 2. Using SportDrive with the throttle held just short of the kickdown detent (versus all the way to the floor which produces "shifting") I hit 110mph at the end of the straight. Faster! We decided that this approach may hold engine rpm in the best portion of the power band, and that perhaps the CVT was working as designed using continuous and very smooth ratio change.

The rest of track also benefited from left-foot braking in SD. The computer overworked to find the right combinations, and it doesn't seem to like quick throttle inputs. I tried to spool up the engine well before needing it, using both throttle and brakes. You sort of "release" the car.

The SD approach needs more work on technique, and I would still like to do objective measured acceleration runs in each of the modes.

This car is very "quick", not particularly straight-line "fast". In the first two days, powerful cars left me behind on the straight but I would catch up in the twisties, lap after lap. Some interesting machinery too; Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Subaru, Porsche. The third day had other MINIs (Cooper and Cooper S, even a Cooper racecar) with varied skill levels. The CVT held its own. It works, never missed a shift either.

I ran three track days in a row, all day long, noticeable tire wear, but nothing is used up or worn out. The magic of a light, well-balanced car!

The CVT should have it's own badge.

[elmadi]

Quote:

Originally posted by johnewald
Three wonderfully fun days in a row on tracks around here. I got the CVT "working" well, so it was huge fun and reinforced that this is a technically-interesting package in the MINI lineup.

Two techniques seemed to work best. I would love some critical questions from you to help me sort this out.

Steptronic was the most fun. After trying all kinds of variations, the most effective for me was to set the car under left-foot braking and bang downshifts to the appropriate "gear" selection for the exit, using throttle to feed in power as the brakes eased after turn-in. The computer does precise upshifts at 6,000rpm with no manual input. More coordinated work under braking on entry, concentrate on steering and throttle on exit. This became a rhythm, more and more enjoyable each lap.

SportDrive was again a surprise. On the last day when we were on Pacific Raceways (formerly Seattle International Raceways, 2.2mi, 9 turn) with a very long front straight, I tried to see which program pulled the best.

This "straight" essentially starts at Turn 8 through various kinks to braking for Turn 2. There is an "instructed lap" video of the track in a BMW. The video "begins" at the downhill entry to Turn 3A: http://www.proformanceraceschool.com/

Using the Steptronic "shifting" technique from the previous days (above), I hit 107mph at the braking point for Turn 2. Using SportDrive with the throttle held just short of the kickdown detent (versus all the way to the floor which produces "shifting") I hit 110mph at the end of the straight. Faster! We decided that this approach may hold engine rpm in the best portion of the power band, and that perhaps the CVT was working as designed using continuous and very smooth ratio change.

The rest of track also benefited from left-foot braking in SD. The computer overworked to find the right combinations, and it doesn't seem to like quick throttle inputs. I tried to spool up the engine well before needing it, using both throttle and brakes. You sort of "release" the car.

The SD approach needs more work on technique, and I would still like to do objective measured acceleration runs in each of the modes.

This car is very "quick", not particularly straight-line "fast". In the first two days, powerful cars left me behind on the straight but I would catch up in the twisties, lap after lap. Some interesting machinery too; Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Subaru, Porsche. The third day had other MINIs (Cooper and Cooper S, even a Cooper racecar) with varied skill levels. The CVT held its own. It works, never missed a shift either.

I ran three track days in a row, all day long, noticeable tire wear, but nothing is used up or worn out. The magic of a light, well-balanced car!

The CVT should have it's own badge.

Good news to us CVT owners! I agree that it needs separate badging.
Do you have any photos of the event?

[ScooterMan]

Here. Here.

Thank you for the informative description of the CVT at work.

[n3nyongmini]

A great comment: "It works, never missed a shift either."

I think one could talk all day about hp, torque, etc., but it really comes down to the driver and how they work what they have...

Thanks

[MINIsota_Cuke]

Your latest post was both informative and inspirational to a person like myself that is considering the CVT.
The more I read about it; the better it sounds. Considering I am a complete novice, the CVT sounds like a good vehicle to learn the mechanics of racing while allowing the computer to compensate for the many mistakes I will make.
Johnewald, do you have a cold air induction kit on your car?

Maybe one of the aftermarket companies reading these posts could come up with a classy CVT badge.

[nonsequitur]

So long as everyone remembers I'm no expert on anything, just a guy who wants to figure out how this car really works, here's some thoughts based on your latest statements and questions.

I've been worried at times if this car was the right choice for us, just like many of you have voiced. We started the waiting list back in '97 so our family is committed on "MINI", but the Cooper, Cooper CVT, or Cooper S decision, and all the choices for each one were big concerns.

We chose the Cooper CVT, believing it would be fully sorted after a year in the UK, because of our family situation and how the car would be used each day (we were wrong on the fully sorted part, but I am honestly pleased with the CVT choice, and the software seems to be stable now). I now think the CVT is the hidden jewel in the product line. I like it. We'd do it again.

We got the SS+ and 15" wheels to soften it up some for the daily grind (and to have traditionally proper 7-Hole wheels), a good decision we'd also do again. The aftermarket 16x6.5" wheels and Falken tires for weekends are the only modifications so far.

I'm critical of the MINI Owner's Manual because it doesn't explain how things work. That's why all these posts, and I'm so thankful for all of you contributing. We can get a revised Manual or a new CVT-specific piece I think.

The sales process also doesn't carefully explain what the different components really do, they are all accessories (revenue and profit for the dealers) so I've seen lots of Owners who might have actually been happier in a Cooper or Cooper CVT but the momentum of the situation and ego perhaps made the pen slide over to a Cooper S selection. The S is also wonderful machine, no shots here because I want one of those too, but it is important to sort what you're getting for you own needs and why that choice is important. We produced a by-piece order as an example just so we could get the standard air conditioning versus climate-control.

Five Track Days in different conditions (Hot/dry to Cool/very wet) seem to show that the Cooper is some better balanced (tight corners, autocross) and lighter than the Cooper S.

Handling is really super compared with any of the bigger sedans that have showed up in these days (It did VERY well compared to the performance models of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, ...), even in the wet (which was a big test because I am also an "Audi guy"). It is particularily good where weight transfer is critical like the 70mph S-sweepers on Saturday.

I think the brakes are good too. For me, this is compared to bigger performance sedans I've had, and there is always room to improve brakes. I could go deeper than anyone else into the corners, except Porsche. Nothing is wearing out, as everything did on the heavier cars, because it is only 2600lbs.

So it comes down to learning to drive what I have very well, as one of you said. The Cooper CVT stayed right with the Cooper 5-speed racecar in the drag to 110mph; he then pulled out some on his slicks in the corners.

If I had extra money, I'd be tempted to very carefully shop for better induction and artwork headers/cat. There's a rumor that an upcoming issue (Sept?) of Car & Driver has a significant objective test of this stuff. 20-25bhp would be wonderful, but not now.

[cooper4us]

Johnwald, let's suppose that today, you were confronted with the choice between a Cooper CVT or a Cooper S, which one would you pick and why?

Also consider that you already have a CVT sitting in your garage.

[Ozone]

Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their CVT experiences in this thread. I have had my CVT for two months now and love it more and more every passing day. One thing I have learned is to not mash the accelerator all the way to the floor, except if I want to downshift. The only time I ever do this is if I'm on an incline and am losing RPMs or driving in twisties and RPMs are too low to deliver the torque for a burst of speed. A steady pedal has worked best for me whether it is from a dead stop or merging onto the freeway. I am still learning to master the manual mode, but I have all summer to really start playing with it.

[nonsequitur]

cooper4us, I put some comments over on a General thread "If I had it to do over again" that may get at some of your question as a way to preserve this thread for Driving Technique:
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=32677

I'm expecting more technical information in the next couple of weeks that may help us understand how this CVT is supposed to work.

[nonsequitur]

I should pass on one little comment from Sunday that made me smile even though there is NO comparison! A guy said that the Steptronic technique I described to him is the way he understands the new BMW F1 cars work: Manual downshifts to the appropriate gear selection on entry, with completely automatic and precise upshifts at very high rpms on exit from corners.

[AWOL]

Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum. This message string about the CVT has been TERRIFIC! I'm trying to decide if I should get an S or a CVT. Part of me really doesn't want to drive a stick full time (I live in an area where traffic is the pits). But another part of me craves performance. It sounds like the CVT is great in curves, but does it have enough power to be able to merge into traffic on a freeway? Or would I be better off with a supercharger? Thanks!

[AWOL]

Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum. This message string about the CVT has been TERRIFIC! I'm trying to decide if I should get an S or a CVT. Part of me really doesn't want to drive a stick full time (I live in an area where traffic is the pits). But another part of me craves performance. It sounds like the CVT is great in curves, but does it have enough power to be able to merge into traffic on a freeway? Or would I be better off with a supercharger? Thanks!

[adgrimes]

The CVT will have more than enough power... The Mini ONE that I test drove certainly did... Im guessing you are talking about 70 - 80mph (I have no idea what sort of speeds people do on the freeways in the US)...

[cooper4us]

Speed limits in the US range between 55-75MPH in highways and interstates. I drove late last night back home in my CVT using both Sport Mode and Steptronic in the highway and this car flies!!! The CVT package has sooo much potential it is mind boggling......do I still need a Supercharger...I don't know really after my drive last night I suspect that the CVT is more than anyone would ever need.

At least the CVT seems to be faster than the 5-speed Cooper and seems to whip the MCS around the corners (And this is acording to a MCS owner that claims that a CVT gave him grief during a recent Autocross session).