[nonsequitur]

You're right here. That earlier comment was with Steptronic selected, not SD, but allowing the computer to do "upshifts" at the 6000rpm redline. I didn't understand SD at the time. Heck, I didn't understand the transmission at the time.

We now have some instrumentation, but before spending time on the runs, I'm waiting for MINI to confirm questions about what the new CD#33/33.1 will do to our cars. If it is a change anything like what was introduced by 32/32.1, then the results will be important.

We can still work on sorting CVT details and technique, however.

An example:
You mentioned holding the brake while bringing up rpms with the throttle pedal. A proven idea, that probably has big potential in the Cooper CVT. My only concern is with the multi-plate clutches (2 six-surface clutches in this transmission: 1-forward, 1-reverse).

In some new throttle-by-wire cars, the computer shuts down the throttle if you touch the brake. That does not happen with the MINI (yes!), so we have a good path to work here.

This also opens up Kart-style driving (left foot braking), especially in SD. I played with this at the track some, and there's promise in it because the computer is using "throttle position" as one very major input to the transmission's controller. "Holding" the throttle produces very different results compared to "lifting" and "rolling on" throttle.

I thoroughly enjoyed the SD turbine-smooth acceleration, even if one of the other modes turns out to be a little faster, this SD sensation was more fun ... and smoother, which may translate to "quick" in the real world of twisties.

We'll together find out what techniques work best, and then share them here.

[nonsequitur]

Debate on software version seems to have stalled the testing. One of our dealers is going to call with how 33.0, 33.1, 33.2 (or even the rumor on 34.0) may affect the Cooper CVT. No call back yet.

Is anyone familiar with a GPS-based instrument? I have an older G-Tech that was going to be what I use at the track for tests.

[ARitz]

I just noticed something new that should be looked into on our cvt's. I put my car in park and began to turn the steering wheel to straighten out the wheels because i was pulling into a small space. I noticed it caused the RPM to bounce around. This may be a usual thing, but I never noticed it on other cars.

-Andrew

[nonsequitur]

What is the amplitude of this "bouncing around"?

If it's small, 50rpm or so, but noticable, then I've seen that kind of jitter as the CVT [gear-driven oil pump?] "comes up" or "settles down" in the garage. A test is to continue to move the steering wheel back and forth. I'll guess that movement quickly becomes out of sync with the tach needle and settles down.

The steering pump mechanism (also a ZF Group product) decouples this load from the engine by tapping the battery, an electro-hydraulic steering rack (the whine).

[ARitz]

Based on thousands, i woul say it moves up to 500 either direction. I tried it without running the car at all, and it still happened. Only when i moved the steering wheel did it 'wobble', when i stop it stops and it starts up when i begin turning it again.So i still think it is the steering that is doing it.

About the upgrades, i'm still running on whatever software was on the july build CVTs stock, still havent changed it. Should i get 33.1 or wait for 34(a rumor for now)?

-Andrew

[cooper4us]

Get 33.1. I will only make your car better.

[nfo]

i have 33.1 on my cvt and i've started to get the jump when going from park to drive even with the brake pressed! 33.1 seemed to fix this problem for a while, but it's back!
anyone else have this problem?

[nonsequitur]

I don't understand how something in software can create the comment "... it's back!", but we are also getting a too-hard engagement of Drive from Park (thru Reverse, Neutral) or Reverse. We still have 32.1.

I was going to bring this up with our trusted service tech for his opinion, assuming it had to be mechanical [CVT clutch packs?].

There is rumor of a 33.2 (to resolve something in 33.1).

[cooper4us]

The "shock" or "jerkiness" when shifting from Park to Drive or from Reverse to Drive has come back a little bit but in a much milder form in comparison pre-32.1 update. Again, this seems to happen only on a COLD engine. When the engine is warmed up, the shifting transition from P or R to D is smooth as silk.

Along these lines, I think today I came accross to what appears to be a "BUG" in the 32.1 version of the software, which I still have. I would like for you guys to try this little experiment to see if you get the same results. Basically, today I was able to voluntarily replicate the transmission lurching problem while on Steptronic mode. I haven't had the lurching during the past 3 months.

Here is what you need to do:

While driving in Normal mode, select Steptronic mode and begin upshifting or downshifting manually. When you approach a traffic light allow the computer to downshift automatically for you in Steptronic mode. You'll notice that once you have come to a full stop, the computer would have downshifted to 2nd gear. Ok, now while stopped and with your foot firmly planted on the break pedal, downshift one more time all the way to 1st gear and then upshift (with the car still stopped)to 2nd gear. The car will begin immediately to lurch forward even with your foot in the brake pedal. To stop the lurching, downshift to 1st gear or go back to Normal mode.

After this, the lurching never came back whether I was in Normal, Sport or Steptronic modes.

I taught that this discovery was interesting and seems to be a problem in the programming of the Steptronic controlling code that seems to be affecting Normal mode as well. When I upshifted from 1st to 2nd with the car stopped, it seems to me that the computer was thinking that the car was actually begin to move and therefore disengaged the clutch fully, causing the car to begin lurching (Similar effect when you release the clutch pedal fast while in gear and still not moving the car).

So indeed there is a software problem in that the code fails to communicate and check the status of the electronic throttle gas pedal and on its own it suddenly disengages the forward clutch prematurely even before the car begins to move, thus causing the "rodeo horse" effect or the lurching jerky movements. I hope every one understands what I am trying to say here.

I would like for everyone to try to replicate these symptoms based on the steps listed here, whether you have 32.1 or 33.1 installed.

I plan to put a call to MINIUSA tomorrow morning. I think failure of the CVT controlling code to communicate with the EML throttle controller (Sporadic failure) is what's causing the lurching.

Very interesting finding.

[Sejanus]

Tried it three times on my way home today and nothing happened. No lurching at all.

[nfo]

i had some pretty serious lurching today going about 10mph in traffic. time to make another appointment! this is annoying! hopefully they will get it right this time around!

[nonsequitur]

cooper4us, I was unable to duplicate your experience with our car over the past couple of days. We're still running 32.1. I did NOT get to freeway driving (6th), so it was only stoplight to stoplight using the process you laid out. I used a light foot on the brake pedal at all stops.

The description of this lurching behavior (with foot off the gas, but on the brake pedal) must be in software as you suspect. Nearly every command goes through the Seimens-built EMS 2000, with inputs from the transmission, engine, gas pedal, brake pedal, wheel sensors, etc.

What have you learned?

There are two modes associated with the transmission (additional to P, R, N, D, SD, Manual, EP) that I don't yet understand: Fast-off (starting from stop, belt adjusted to full stop on variator pulley), and Crawler (which is for very low speed smoothness, internal to the CVT hydraulics I think).

[onefastmini]

johnewald, You mentioned EP. This is a program error. Before you run of to the dealer, I would like to explain this. There is current feeding back to DME(EMS2000) that will cause the EP to appear in the cluster, I just got an E-mail from my field service engineer this morning explaining this and the repair in detail. There will be a service action to fix this as soon as the parts are built. I already have a few of these in the shop waiting. This also affects the 5-speeds as well, only the concern will be of the cruise control not working. Please also be assured that this will no harm the cvt in any way and in most cases does not affect shifting. Please be patient as my days are about to get very long.

-----------Dan----------

[only1kiku]

I have minimal experience driving manual transmission and I'm thinking to order the CVT. I asked this question in another thread but maybe it is more appropriate here.

About the 6000rpm redline... What does redline mean and how do I use this information to my advantage?

[PigLick]

I'm no expert, but the redline is the maximum revs allowed for the engine. In older cars, the redline was literally just that, a red line on the tach telling you not to rev the engine any higher or risk serious damage. IN the MINI, however, since everything is computer-controlled, the computer will actually cut off fuel supply to the engine when you reach the redline, so that you literlly cannot pass the redline. You can use this information to your advantage because, to put it simply, the higher your revs, the faster you go.

PigLick

[nonsequitur]

Some more detail on "redline" for the CVT. The maximum input shaft speed to the transmission is 6000rpm, so the EMS 2000 is programmed to "shift" or cutoff at that point (versus a higher engine-mandated maximum rpm in the manual equipped cars).

As to using it to your advantage... a big point with the CVT is that it seems to be bulletproof. The ZF VT1F CVT Transmission is designed to accelerate faster, with better fuel economy, and thorough protection of the engine and components. A very modern device in our cars today. Combined with PigLick's advice, you can spend seat time near the redline with few worries.

We are trying to figure out just how the CVT works and how to drive this car well in this thread and a few others here in MINI2. Thanks for joining the fun! You'll see some very good people's comments.

[BartMack]

There was a light reference somewhere above that the computer would adapt to a specific driver, and that more agressive driving during break-in might result in a faster car. This is VERY interesting. Is there a way to validate/confirm this?

And though I have no definition for 'aotodidactic', it sounds very cool. Does this (following) quote from the trans description relate to the 'learnability' factor?...
"The system is also autodidactic and is able to adapt its approach to shift management to suit the driving style of any given driver."...?

This would seem to mean that individual cars would have unique results to consistantly applied tests! Do I have that right or not?

[BartMack]

spelling.... AUTOdidactic

[nonsequitur]

Just to have some fun here -- "Yes."

But, break-in is important for all motor vehicles! Follow the varied speed, lower speed, gentler inputs suggestions as your book and dealer suggests to make sure everything seats properly.

[BartMack]

Ah-ha! autodidactic means 'self-educated'.
..Learn something new every day!