[nonsequitur]

Let's run a thread on some objective testing of the CVT's performance characteristics and features, to see if we can deduce how it really functions in various driving conditions.

I'm still working on how to drive the CVT effectively. I like this car, but it is VERY different than the turbo motor, 5-speed Audi I'm coming from, so I'm still seeking advice on driving technique.

We may get a G-Tech Pro or the new Competition to figure out some of this objective stuff.
*** TESTING PARAMETERS
0-60mph time
1/4mile time, speed
Horsepower at the wheels
60-0mph distance
some standardized skidpad numbers
time to speed: 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, ...
What other data shoulld be collected?

*** FEATURE/CHARACTERISTICS COMPARISION
Does your CVT have two positions (D, SD) or three (D, S, ...)?
Is there a throttle pedal detent (mechanical resistence) at 3/4?
How does your computer manage acceleration (CVT, shifts)?
What other characteristics should be recorded?

Do our cars all really act the same? In other threads, some have reported "shifting" in D, others have said that they get a continous CVT. I get both, depending on throttle pedal position.

Who can help?

[ARitz]

I can try helping...

I also came from driving an Audi, and i don't really notice any major differences. I can keep up with my dad, who now drives the Audi, quite easily.

I was just on an empty highway with a Cooper S and i had no trouble keeping up with him until we reached around 100mph an he began pulling away.

I haven't noticed shifting in either D or SD. Unless i let of the pedal.

I keep saying this,but i think it has to do with how it is broken in. The CVT computer "learns" how you drive, so aggresive driving may lead to an agressive automatic . All just speculation, but my CVT seems fast.

There are i guess three positions. S, SD, and the "manual" version.And there is the Kickdown option when you push the pedal past the resistance it will rev upto 6000 rpm.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that you come up with to learn more about our CVT's i think it's a great idea.

-Andrew

[nonsequitur]

I am not complaining about anything here. Instead, I'm interested in what we can nail down as objective characteristics and performance from the CVT cars so that questions go away. It's a delight to drive, and quicker than most in the right situations.

Features and Characteristics.
1.
The CVT has two positions displayed in the speedo: Drive ("D") or SportDrive ("SD", not "S" as has been referrenced at times). The steptronic-type mode (+, -) is actuated from this SD position. I think this is how all the CVTs are set up using CD#32.1, but there is some confusion so here is asking if that's what you have.
2.
Our car executes very smooth CVT at any pedal position, unless it's pushed past that detent (resistance) point. It will then "shift" several times (I'm going to say a "three-speed pattern" until I go out to confirm this later).
3.
The computer shifts "gears" in SD at 6,000rpm, precisely. This is 500rpm beyond the tach indicated redline of 5500rpm. The 6000rpm was confirmed by MINI as correct for the CVT cars.
4.
CD#32.1 corrected the issues we were having. Our car still hesitates as the computer finds the right ratios when starting from a full stop.
5.
Engine braking is strong and tenacious in SD. I can modulate weighting of the car, and throttle steer with it (only in the wet so far). Fun. Effective.

[Electrc109]

CVT at the Drag Strip

[onefastmini]

Hi,
The CVT may not be the first choice for performance, but works very well regardless. In fact if I were to compete in a hill climb right now and had a choice between a base model CVT and a sport package "S", I would take the CVT.
When accelerating (e.g. passing on the highway), move the shift lever over to the sport mode ( without manually shifting) and floor it past the kickdown detent. When you feel it starting to accelerate, let off the detent. This should yield the fastest kick in the butt.

------Dan--------
@ FLOW MINI

[nonsequitur]

The objective is understanding. Great comments about technique, which is my real goal, understanding how to drive this car well. We'll see where this goes.

[Electrc109]

The best way I have found to get moving in a CVT Cooper is to not launch at a complete stop. Get rolling at about 5 mph then stomp on it. Doing so will avoid the 0-20 boring part and allow torque to do its thing!

[ARitz]

I agree, the CVT is far better off accelerating from a moving start than a standing start.

-Andrew

[cooper4us]

Also, don't forget that the CVT in Steptronic mode allows you to roll the car in second gear, which may come in handy in some situations.

For faster takeoffs from standstill, I recommend using the Sport Mode and then move over to either normal or steptronic modes.

Sport mode allows the engine to build excellent power momentum from the get go, but normal mode is no slouch either.

You can combine sport mode and steptronic in a variety of driving situations such as passing, hill climbing/descent, take off, etc.

Also keep in mind that the CVT affords lots and lots of engine braking power effect by just letting your foot off the E-gas pedal, so this is another important aspect to keep in mind when driving the Cooper CVT, which I see as a very big positive.

The more you drive and play with the CVT the more you realize that this wonderful transmission behaves more like a true manual than a 4-speed hydraulic slushbox.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask the "CVT GURU".

[nonsequitur]

May I clarify the "Mode" piece of this to eliminate my confusion about it, and to help gather and analyze numbers for each one?

There are really two (2) shifter positions (indicated in the speedo as "D" or "SD"), and three (3) ways to use them.

Are these descriptions correct?

####
"D" (Drive) is the fully automatic CVT mode. Left side of the shift console (at least in left-hand drive cars), with separate selections for "P" (Park), "R" (Reverse), "N" (Neutral), and "D" (Drive).

The computer optimizes engine rpm (torque, horsepower) and belt position in the CVT (road speed) to achieve acceleration appropriate for the pedal position and driving style.

If the pedal is not pushed beyond the kickdown detent(resistance point), then almost butter-smooth CVT characteristics are displayed. Under acceleration, engine rpm will be held at just under 4000rpm and everything else is managed by the CVT transmission. Very apparent, and very different from any "standard" car.

if the pedal is pushed beyond the detent, then faster responses and a more '60s GM PowerGlide sensation is displayed. The transmission "shifts" several times on the fly, engine rpm is not held steady, and a 6000rpm redline is observed - automatically.

####
"SD" (Sport) is the right side position of the shift console, which can be used in two ways:

Just leave it there. If you do nothing, the CVT will hold a "gear" within a range of rpm, shifting up at 6000rpm, or shifting down about 2000rpm (I need to confirm this low one). Coming to a stop, resets the transmission to "2", from which you can accelerate through the gears as the car gives you automatic upshifts at 6000rpm. This is called "Sport mode"???

Manual "shift" the "gears." I often call this a "virtual (software based) sequential 6-speed" mode. Upshift selections (+, pull once) and downshifts (-, push once) may be requested at any rpm but they will only be made by the computer if no over-rev situation would develop for the motor. This is called "Steptronic mode"???

Or, do we have different transmissions in our cars?

I don't have three indentified modes in our Cooper CVT, only the D and SD described above. Sorry to be so lengthy on this, but the three-mode theme (Drive, Sport, Steptronic) is running in many threads. I want to make sure I understand what we mean by the terms used.

It will be important as we sort out the objective details and differences between the modes (just as Cooper4us has done in the previous response).

Thanks for carrying this forward.

[cooper4us]

Yes they are correct.

[cooper4us]

The LCD screen in the speedo only shows D (Normal Mode), SD (Sport Mode) and the 1 to 6 gear range when you are engaged in Steptronic Mode.

If you take a look at the owner's manual, there are 3 separate programming modes in the CVT transmission. Steptronic is engaged while in SD mode by either manually upshifting (+) or Downshifting (-) the gearshift selector. You don't have a "Steptronic" label anywhere aside from "-/+".

You can not go back to Sport Mode from Steptronic mode until you move the gearshift lever to "Normal" mode. Then you can flick the selector to the right to be once again in SD mode and so on and so forth.

Has anyone seen the paddle shift steering wheel mounted buttons on a newer CVT?

[nonsequitur]

OK, thanks. So does the "Sport, Just leave it there" paragraph describe this "Sport Mode" referred to?

What characteristics can't be switched back to from Steptronic Mode unless selecting "'Normal' [Drive?] Mode'" first?

My Owner's Manual (01 41 0 156 724 ue; US English II/02) has the CVT on pages 46-48. It describes D Drive (CVT driving position) and M/S+- Manual mode and Sport program.

I honestly fear I've not fully discovered or properly used this Sport program. I've been using Drive OR what you are calling Steptronic, except to mess around with auto-shifted acceleration.

How does this third "mode" work, and what characteristics does it include. What am I missing out on?

[cooper4us]

Basically "SD" mode is in between "Normal" and "Steptronic". in SD the car still is in full automatic mode but the difference lies in the way the computer holds the RPMs higher in the band to allow for better power delivery specially at lower speeds or from standstill.

When you move the gear selector to "SD" you notice immediately that the computer is holding the RPMs higher (Around 3K and up) at all times to give you better response in that region of the power band. When you switch back to normal, you'll notice that the computer will hold the RPMs at a much lower range (Between 900 and 1100 RPM on idle and 2K to 3.5K at driving speed).

So yeah when you get into the nuts and bolts of it, your CVT has 3 distinctive programs that output 3 different behaviors. This is what makes the CVT truly special.

[nonsequitur]

But I've not been using the important mode "in between" properly is what you telling me here. This stuff is not described in my manual nor was it mentioned by anyone in the dealership, and I really haven't distinctly or separately found it.

So what are the driving characteristics of this mode in the middle?
How is it supposed to act?
How do you select it (push lever to right only, nothing else)?
When is it best to use it?
How do you take advantage in slow, medium, or fast corners?
Any cautions?

I agree that the CVT is truly special. I'm enjoying it more each day, and its such a huge contrast to my previous sophisticated manual 5-speed ride. But, I should be using the tool properly, and you're telling me that a very significant part is still in there to explore.

Very interesting. See ya -- I'm going for a drive.

I'll check back later!

[cooper4us]

Just push the ge****lector to the right and when "SD" appears on the odometer LCD display, you are now in this "Middle" mode known as sport mode.

The minute you flick the gearshift selector either up (+) or down (-) you have entered "Steptronic" mode because the "SD" readout gets replaced by an actual gear number 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 and now you are in control of the shifting as the CVT is not longer doing it for you (But keep in mind that the CVT programming is fail safe to avoid damaging the engine or transmission, for instance if you are in "5th" gear in Steptronic mode and you forget to downshift as you approach a curve or are bringing the car to a standstill, the computer momentarily takes over and does the downshifting for you....you'll see that the computer downshifted the car to second gear because you forgot to do it yourself).

Also the failsafe program helps avoid overrreving the engine. The computer will not let you downshift to "second gear" when you are in 6th gear at 70+ MPH.

This CVT is so cool and chock full of interesting features, MINI should have wrote an entire separate manual just to detail all the goodies hidden in this tranny.

Have fun playing.

[nonsequitur]

OK, now that was an eye opening drive.

I'm going to put most of my comments into a thread in GENERAL called "Cooper CVT driving technique" to give it some life, and so that I'm compliant with the MINI2 terms of use.

In a word: Wheee!

RPM at 60mph is:
2300 in "D"
3300 in "SD"

Standing start accelleration is much better in "SD" than "D", and probably better than the Steptronic mode. "Gear shifts" occur at 6000rpm, dropping back to 5000rpm (horsepower) in between.

I've got a different car now.

[ARitz]

Ya, SD is amazing, quite a change of personality for the CVT. That's why i like this tranny so much, you're always learning new driving techniques/hints which make it feel like a whole new car.

Good luck motoring faster
-Andrew

[nonsequitur]

ARitz, cooper4us, Electrc109, onfastmini, and anyone else with experience and technique to share, please post some ideas on the Cooper CVT driving technique thread (now moved over here to the Cooper section where it belonged).

[nonsequitur]

Here is an interesting bit. The CVT is built by ZF for MINI and the product is called Ecotronic Type VT1F.

It uses a 24mm wide, 450 segment, jointed steel drive belt to transfer torque between Primary and Secondary V-shaped pulleys with one fixed half and one movable half. This belt and pulleys are lubricated and cooled by oil jet. The pulleys are positioned (to create the continuously variable drive ratios) by hydraulics.

Two clutch packs (one for forward, one for reverse) connect the engine drive shaft (input) to the Primary pulley. These clutch packs contain three plates (six surfaces) to smoothly transfer power. Friction is controlled by hydraulics and they are lubricated and cooled by oil.

Oil pressure is supplied by an internal (transmission) geared pump, driven by, and running at, engine speed. Many functions run on oil pressure, and oil pressure is determined by engine speed.

All of this may partially explain some of the comments about launch and very low speed behaviors. It takes a moment for oil pressure to come up to as much as 40 bar.